National Auto Sports Association

[Gumball928]

I have started attending a few NASA events as crew. Being involved in other series (Indycar, IMSA) who require a crewmember to have a scanner set to Race Control and Safety, NASA does not.

Normally, a scan will find frequencies very quickly. Is it possible that NASA has gone to Digital radios ??
Does anyone have the NASA Race Control and Safety frequencies ?
Will a good digital scanner find frequencies as one would do with an analog scanner ?

 

[GlobalNorth]

There are multiple digital formats: P25 [phase I & II], DMR, NXDN, EDACS, Tetra, etc.]. A Uniden scanner can search these if you pay for the NXDN, DMR, EDACS/Pro Voice upgrades. Scanners from other manufacturers may or may not - check with them to see if your format is covered. No North American scanner I am aware of does Tetra.

Even expensive general coverage receivers [ex. 100 KHz to 2> GHz] may not cover every digital format.

 

[RaleighGuy]

Will a good digital scanner find frequencies as one would do with an analog scanner ?

TRX-1 will do a spectrum search for signals near you as well as other types of searches for P25 Phase I and II, DMR, and NXDN. The ability to do this is included in the scanner price, I had one on the classifieds for $300 others have been on there for under $400.

 

[Gumball928]

With an analog radio scanner, the process was very simple to "scan and search"
I purchased a Uniden BCD436HP, and could not program it correctly in order to perform a "close to me" search, or a "local digital radio" search.
Again, I am unfamiliar with digital radio systems and scanners.
I do not want to buy another scanner that is useless to me.

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

I purchased a Uniden BCD436HP, and could not program it correctly in order to perform a "close to me" search, or a "local digital radio" search.

Never heard of either of these & I've owned a 436HP for almost a decade. Perhaps you're looking to do a "custom search"

Easier to Read BCD436/536HP Digital Scanner Manual

 

[Gumball928]

I guess my question should have been "is there a simpler scanner that will search for analog and digital frequencies" ??

 

[RaleighGuy]

There is nothing simple about digital

I guess my question should have been "is there a simpler scanner that will search for analog and digital frequencies" ??

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

I guess my question should have been "is there a simpler scanner that will search for analog and digital frequencies" ??

Every digital-capable scanner has a learning curve if you've never operated one before. Not all of the scanners in the linked wiki were created equal. Some can track digital modes that others cannot, some cover bands on the radio spectrum that others don't. Also not all digital voice modes are equal. Some are DMR/NXDN/P25 Phase-II capable, others are not. The simplest to operate scanner will not cover every digital mode in existence & with encryption as a possibility you may be out of luck trying to monitor certain agencies of your interest

 

[racingfan360]

While I don't have specific information about NASA events and their radios, I might expect any radios in use will be either analogue or DMR Digital (MotoTRBO). For simplicity and cost, more likely to be simplex (direct radio-radio and not repeated through a base station). I'd also guess at UHF band (450-470MHz).

The two scanner types I'd recommend are the Uniden 436/SDS100 or the Whistler TRX1. The Unidens will be able to close call any radios used in close proximity to you EXCEPT MotoTRBO simplex. The Whistler has Spectrum Search as mentioned above.

If you still have the 436, the simplest way would be to set up a custom search. PM me if you need specific instructions for that.

 

[jeepsandradios]

As stated I would start with analog. Most likely many just use a race receiver and may not even have a radio. UHF bad would my first search. They should publish official channel to the teams so you should not have much info finding it at the track.

 

[16b]

I have worked as crew at some NASA races in the Great Lakes region. I was under the impression that each region takes care of its own radios, but I am not really sure where I got that impression so I could be wrong. I have never been to any NASA events outside Great Lakes. Anyway, the Great Lakes region was using analog UHF as of the 2022 season. At one point I asked their staff for a list of frequencies so my team could monitor race control, but I was told by their "radio guy" that they don't give out their frequencies. A couple of minutes of searching with an analog scanner found me the race control and pit lane frequencies.

That's an interesting tidbit about other race series requiring crews to monitor race control and safety. I thought it was silly that NASA GL was secretive about their radio channels, but after hearing that it seems not only silly but counter to best practices for safety and track awareness.

 

[aethordad]

@Gumball928 - Don't give up on the 436! I don't think I've ever posted here, but you have a very capable scanner. You did jump into the deep end, though. I assume you've connected it to your computer and updated/upgraded Sentinel and the radio (and as such, the database)?

I used Baofengs/Chirp as analog scanners for a good long time. Then a BC125AT, now a BCD436HP.

Your scanner is quite capable of getting what you want but will take a little dedication to really get it humming. Patience is a virtue. There are also so many people here that can help you. Hang in there.

I would also suggest two of the upgrades mentioned above to take full advantage. Don't get them anywhere other than my.uniden.com - you can upgrade yourself and do not need to pay the 50% premium from vendors that will do what you can do very easily direct from Uniden. I would go for the DMR and NXDN upgrades, and not worry about the ProVoice (you already have EDACS and P25 with it and PV is in pretty limited use).

Good luck!

 

[Gumball928]

I did some more research, and talked with techs from Racing Radios as well as Racing Electronics.
These are the techs that program and service the radio systems for the race teams as well as the sanctioning bodies.

After explaining what I was trying to do, the clear answer that I got from both was . . "forget it"

The frequencies and the codes that allow a scanner to follow the digital talk channels that the sanctioning bodies use, are confidential and encrypted.
I was told that the sanctioning bodies will not allow those frequencies to be copied to a radio or scanner used by a "non-official person".
Also, when I asked about "searching and programing" those frequencies like everyone does with analog frequencies, both techs told me, very simply, "not possible".

As far as I know, all sanctioning bodies have their radios set so that Race Control is on an analog channel.
This allows race teams to follow the conversations that provide info regarding track condition, pace car deployment, and other normal race functions.

The channels for Safety, Medical and Tactical are now on digital. Obviously keeping select conversations private.

 

[racingfan360]

@Gumball928 I think you are largely getting a bum steer on this topic.

I'm still willing to bet the radios in use are analog or DMR Digital, and I bet are UHF. I'd assume small chance they are NXDN. For any of those options you CAN search and find the frequency in use. With a digital scanner like the 436 and the right dmr/nxdn options installed if required, you can decode them and find the RAN/Color Code and Talkgroup in use too. What you won't be able to do is decrypt them IF they have encryption in use. It's hard to know if they would be encrypted or not: some series do others don't, and there are good reasosn for medical related radios to have encryption.

The best research is to go and search for the frequencies in use, and also get some photos of the handheld radios actually used.

Many series have an RMC Channel (or Race Management Channel): a one way link from race control to teams, often analog but sometimes digital (and it doesn't matter if it is digital as the series often porvide the teams with a listen only radio for this link).

 

[Gumball928]

Not being a rancher, therefore knowing nothing about steers . . . . . . .

As I said, I talked with the techs that set up the radio systems for several series (NASA being one) and that was the answer that I was given.
This particular tech, I have known for over 15 years. When I asked him "is there any way", his answer was "not without violating our contract"

 

[racingfan360]

I appreciate that, and am sure you recognise that I am trying to help you as per your original post. Im not totally surprised your contact said he might be in violation of his contract for passing on info. But I would also find it highly unlikely that one can't search for and find the frequencies in use.

 

[racingfan360]

A quick check of the NASA rules (Rules - NASA) doesn't yield much info. If anything, and when compared to many other motorsport sanctioning bodes (eg IMSA/Indycar), it is the lack of mention of the need to monitor a race control channel that stands out more than anything. So my assumption is that NASA regions might have a few of their own radios, 'Race Control' is probably whatever the race control/safety worker system is in use at each individual circuit, and so the concept of NASA Race Control radio link to the teams/drivers doesn't exist. So I'd recommend hunting down that circuit's race control/safety frequencies still using the method as above.

The Legend rules - albeit from 2018 - look to be an exception, as they talk about Raceceivers https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/document/document/11506/2018_US_Legend_Rules.pdf

The IMSA rules for comparison, section 14.9 specifically:

https://www.imsa.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2023/02/02/2023-IMSA-SPORTING-REGULATIONS-and-SSR-IWSC-Blackline-020223.pdf

 

[AK9R]

Since many NASA events are conducted at the same tracks used by SCCA Club Racing, I did a little web browsing for the supplemental regulations for SCCA events. Note that while NASA officials may be using their own radio system, generally, the flagging and communications radios and the track rescue vehicle radios are generally provided by the track or the group staffing the race.

Found this in the supps for the recent SCCA Super Tour event at Sebring:

RADIO FREQUENCIES: Central Florida Region communications is now a digital network. Race control is rebroadcast on analog 464.6750 or 469.6750 for scanners.

And this from the supps for an upcoming Super Tour at Road Atlanta:

RESTRICTED RADIO FREQUENCIES: Atlanta Region SCCA radio channels are 464.675mhz, 469.675mhz, 461.9125mhz, 466.9125mhz and 464.825mhz. Michelin Raceway radio channels are 461.200mhz, 466.200mhz, 462.375mhz, and 467.375mhz. These channels are restricted, and no team or unauthorized persons are permitted to transmit on them. It is encouraged that crew monitor the Atlanta Region SCCA channels in order to pass on pertinent information to their driver.

And this from the supps for last year's June Sprints at Road America:

RADIO FREQUENCIES: The following radio frequencies are reserved for race operations and may not be used by any competitors. These frequencies may be monitored but shall not be used for communication by any participant. Race Officials reserve the right to designate other frequencies for race administration. 452.7000 457.7000 461.1500 461.3250 462.2000 463.7000 464.0750 461.1750 463.2250 464.5250 466.1750 468.2250 469.5250

 

[Gumball928]

Having tried to decipher the manual for the BCD436HP
(I do not have a Masters in Computer Technology)

- and after attempting to contact Uniden's "customer support" link on their website
(who NEVER responded to TWO requests)
.
I have found the simple solution - I sold the scanner.

So, if anyone has a suggestion for an analog/digital scanner that a person with NORMAL radio skills can operate, I welcome suggestions.
.
Thank You

 

[jeepsandradios]

The BC125AT is an ideal race scanner. It has enough capacity to add all cars. Personally I still use the software as its easier to setup but can be done by hand.