Need Help: Strange Signal in NW Ark

Status
Not open for further replies.

k5xs

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 19, 2004
Messages
133
For the past few weeks while scanning the UofA PD primary dispatch frequency on 460.375 MHz, my PRO-97 has been latching onto a pulsing signal that's about 1/2 second in length, every 3 seconds.

Using a better receiver that is all mode (AM/USB/LSB/FM), I have found that the actual pulsing signal is about 460.390 MHz. (The PRO-97 is kind of broad, so that would make sense...)

I started tuning the 460 MHz band by hand using USB, and I find the signal repeats itself (sort of--more on that later) at the following frequencies. (The FM frequency is where it is strongest on FM, the USB frequency is where it "sounds right" for a single-sideband signal).

FM............................USB
460.410...................460.411
460.390...................460.386
460.335...................460.336
460.310...................460.311
460.260...................460.261

I find, though, that by tuning two receivers to two of the different frequencies, that the frequencies pulse ("light up") at slightly different times, so it's not as though the frequencies are all related to a single fundamental frequency and its images.

I do not recall hearing this weeks ago, but it has been solid ever since.

In FM, it sounds like a carrier pulse, but in SSB, it sounds more like a packet (AX.25) burst. And once last night, while driving around Fayetteville looking for it, one of the bursts was of longer duration, and it was clearly sending some intelligence.

I tried driving around an DF'ing it with a 10-element 70cm yagi, but I think being 10+ MHz off resonance made it a tough act. I _think_ I isolated it to the Garland and North Street area, but I'm far from sure, and got a good signal on North just west of College, too. I went up on Mt Sequoyah, and results there suggested very much it was in that Garland/North streets region.

Can anyone else hear it? Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Bernie
Elkins
 

k5xs

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 19, 2004
Messages
133
Refined Frequencies

I played a little more with the receiver. The freqs (in digital mode) are:

460.2625

460.3125

460.3375

460.4125

460.3875

The more I listen the more I think it is a polling system, maybe for fire alarms or the like. The different freqs have different stengths, suggesting they are in different places.
 

jonny290

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
687
Location
Denver, CO
K5XS,

I believe I heard you commenting about this earlier today on .135 - was going to pop in but I didn't want to just say "Hey, random ham here, I hear it too"

I live at the corner of Garland and North, behind the liquor store (Look for the antennas ;)) and the interference is crippling. Not only is it causing broadband RFI in the 460 range, but it is desensing my scanners when it pulses on, such that the Fayetteville 800 MHz system gets wiped out in my 396 when the noise pulses.

I first noticed it when scanning the FRS bank in my Icom FM rig; the noise appears there at up to S9+, but does not break carrier.

I've thought about building a cardioid setup to try to find it, as well.

73
Matt
KC4YLV
 

k5xs

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 19, 2004
Messages
133
Well...

Matt,
Feel free to jump in as a "random ham" anytime on the repeater!
I think I have the pulses figured out. I went to Part 90 of the C.F.R. (FCC regulations). The discrete frequencies I am listening on are allocated to telemetry devices. Last night, heading up to a church social near the mall, I noticed the pulses on different frequencies are of different strengths.
I have concluded the pulses are telemetry, and the devices are all around town. I think it isn't really interfering with the UofA PD frequency, but that my PRO-97 has such a broad front end that it is opening the squench even though the signal is well away from the PD's freq.
Join us on 147.135 sometime.
73,
Bernie
 

bpckty1

Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2000
Messages
845
Set the Pro-97's mode to LTR and see how the frequencies are displayed. The signals could be the LTR system's polling program.
 

k5xs

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 19, 2004
Messages
133
Definitely not part of trunked system

Listening to it on USB, it is clearly telemetry. It hink that part of the mystery is solved. I guess I wonder now what kind of telemetry it is (firs reporting system, traffic, etc.). I'll drive around town in a few weeks when I have some time and try to figure that piece out.

Thanks.
 

pappy1

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2006
Messages
354
Location
Central Arkansas
Could this be the freq's you hear this on? These are new issued to Washington co EOC .
YW WQGQ763 1 000460.06250000
YW WQGQ763 1 000460.38750000
YW WQGQ763 1 000460.41250000
YW WQGQ763 2 000465.06250000
YW WQGQ763 2 000465.38750000
YW WQGQ763 2 000465.41250000
YW WQGQ763 2 000460.06250000
YW WQGQ763 2 000460.38750000
YW WQGQ763 2 000460.41250000

This is the control point address # 1: 105 MILL AVE, WASHINGTON, FAYETTEVILLE, AR
 
Last edited:

jonny290

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
687
Location
Denver, CO
That's right behind the 'old jail' off of spring street. I'm going to go investigate this afternoon with my scanner.
 

SkipSanders

Silent Key
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
1,059
That license is authorized for F3E emissions, which is FM voice, and is supposedly a trunking system, 1 base, 1000 mobiles. It was only recently licensed, and in december, was sent a reminder about construction/coverage testing reporting.

I suspect you're hearing test signals being used to check coverage of what will probably be a 'normal' trunking voice system. With three channels, I'd expect it to be LTR, but there's no telling that from the license.
 

bpckty1

Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2000
Messages
845
Being too far away to personally monitor the freqs, I think SkipSanders is on the right track and it could be an LTR system. One of the identifiers for an LTR system is the polling signal sent on the frequencies to, I guess, keep the radios "in the loop".
;^>
 

foster_006

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Messages
605
Location
Springfield, MO
SkipSanders said:
That license is authorized for F3E emissions, which is FM voice, and is supposedly a trunking system, 1 base, 1000 mobiles. It was only recently licensed, and in december, was sent a reminder about construction/coverage testing reporting.

I suspect you're hearing test signals being used to check coverage of what will probably be a 'normal' trunking voice system. With three channels, I'd expect it to be LTR, but there's no telling that from the license.

KNWA did a story about Washington County Fire getting a new trunking system not too long ago. I can't recall any specifics about the story... but I know they said it was going to be a trunking system.
 

jonny290

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
687
Location
Denver, CO
Interference isn't bothering me anymore, but I haven't listened closely. I'll give an update tonight from my location
 

jdink

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
39
Location
Fayetteville AR
Did anybody read the article in the Washington Times this morning, Sherriff dept and county fire are going to a Trident Passport radio system, they have been working on it for 4 years expected to go fully online within a few months. Is this system able to be monitored. Central EMS is supposed to be on this system aswell. Also Fayetteville is planning to switch over to AWIN in the future. Just thought I would pass this along. Happy Scanning!!
 

foster_006

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Messages
605
Location
Springfield, MO
jdink said:
Did anybody read the article in the Washington Times this morning, Sherriff dept and county fire are going to a Trident Passport radio system, they have been working on it for 4 years expected to go fully online within a few months. Is this system able to be monitored. Central EMS is supposed to be on this system aswell. Also Fayetteville is planning to switch over to AWIN in the future. Just thought I would pass this along. Happy Scanning!!
here's the link.. in case you missed the story..


http://www.nwarktimes.com/nwat/News/62097/
 

lake-hamilton

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
12
Location
Central Ar
Trident Passport

PassPort is a relatively rare kind of trunking system that is similar to the LTR format.

PassPort is an advanced trunking protocol developed by Trident Micro Systems. PassPort was engineered to provide system operators with maximum operational flexibility and efficiency by utilizing sub-audible signaling. Designed from the start as a robust networking protocol, PassPort delivers affordable trunked wide area networking capability in all frequency bands.
While it is fairly easy to listen to, LTR Passport can not be trunk tracked with a scanner, only monitored conventionally, though using a Discriminator tapped scanner running through a data slicer to an PC, using LTRDump/LTRTrunk software can be trunk tracked on the PC. Heres the website http://www.tridentms.com/
 

jonny290

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
687
Location
Denver, CO
I'm QRT for a few months, but as a courtesy I listened for a few hours this weekend. No interference of any kind on any beam heading.

Sad that they're making so much unmonitorable. :( As long as I get my Fay PD, that's all the drama I need, though!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top