New CB radio options. Can’t choose.

[cralt]

Oh and another thing about the SWR on the president's. They have an automatic mode so you can adjust the antenna with out running back and forth 20 times to key and check the readings. It beeps like a sonar. The worse the SWR the longer the delay between the beeps. When you get on target the tone is steady.

 

[mmckenna]

But I’m a little bit confused; if my antenna was in fact one of those that required a ground plane and if an 18 foot coax is too long then how do you know how much cable you need to use?

The 5/8th's wave antenna you have requires a ground plane. It's important to understand the difference between an RF ground plane and simply connecting the antenna mount to a grounded mirror support. DC ground, as in what you'd get through the mirror (-maybe-) is different than a flat ground plane under the antenna. A 5/8th's wave antenna requires a flat ground plane under the antenna, as in mounting it in the center of the steel or aluminum roof of a vehicle.

If your antenna is mounted on a mirror bracket, then it's never going to tune up correctly. The 18 feet of coax you have is just hiding the high SWR from the radio. In other words, you have a setup that looks good to the radio, but it's not working to it's full potential.

For local communications, like at a yard, you don't need to go overboard, but you do probably want this setup to work as well as you possibly can. In other words, get your monies worth out of the system.

You probably need to look at a 1/2 wave "No ground plane" antenna to go on your mirror mount. You'll also need the correct coaxial cable setup to provide the counterpoise for the antenna. A call to Firestik might be the easiest way to get what you need.


The other option is to mount the antenna dead center on the roof of the truck. That'll work only if the roof is a conductive metal, and there's no mechanical interference from the dump body. You could use a different style antenna and get some good performance.
But probably best/easiest to work with the mount you have, add a new no ground plane antenna and appropriate coax.

i’ve just got a cheap little $25 Astatic SWR meter that I guess works pretty good but that’s one of the things that’s always made me wonder is, even if your external SWR meter is pretty accurate and even the meter that’s built into the radio was pretty accurate, how would you really get the same SWR readings between the two because when you use the external one, you’ve now got a separate component for the signal to travel through and depending on how long your short piece of coax is that goes between the radio and the meter, you’ve added an extra length temporarily to your coax. I don’t know, I guess that doesn’t matter and I could be just speaking from lack of experience and lack of knowledge but I’ve just always wondered about that.

No, that's a good point, but the short length of coax between the SWR meter and the radio isn't going to impact things that much. The SWR meter is looking at reflected power at that point in the cable.

It's not a lab quality device, it's more of a simple/inexpensive sanity check to make sure the radios internal SWR meter is not lying to you. But, if the radios built in meter is matching pretty close to the external meter, then you're probably good.

 

[SmitHans]

When I was trucking, I had SSB capability on most of my radios. In 20 years on the road, I may have used SSB 3 or 4 times. I won't pay extra for it anymore . Hell, I'm not even sure I've ever used all 40 channels either.
Also, peaking & tuning your radio is a waste of time & money if you aren't going to put in a quality & properly installed antenna. A stock radio hooked to a high quality & properly installed antenna will get out much better than an overpowered peaked & tuned radio hooked to a crappy antenna install. And you'll be able to receive better too.

 

[corneileous]

The 5/8th's wave antenna you have requires a ground plane. It's important to understand the difference between an RF ground plane and simply connecting the antenna mount to a grounded mirror support. DC ground, as in what you'd get through the mirror (-maybe-) is different than a flat ground plane under the antenna. A 5/8th's wave antenna requires a flat ground plane under the antenna, as in mounting it in the center of the steel or aluminum roof of a vehicle.

If your antenna is mounted on a mirror bracket, then it's never going to tune up correctly. The 18 feet of coax you have is just hiding the high SWR from the radio. In other words, you have a setup that looks good to the radio, but it's not working to it's full potential.

For local communications, like at a yard, you don't need to go overboard, but you do probably want this setup to work as well as you possibly can. In other words, get your monies worth out of the system.

You probably need to look at a 1/2 wave "No ground plane" antenna to go on your mirror mount. You'll also need the correct coaxial cable setup to provide the counterpoise for the antenna. A call to Firestik might be the easiest way to get what you need.


The other option is to mount the antenna dead center on the roof of the truck. That'll work only if the roof is a conductive metal, and there's no mechanical interference from the dump body. You could use a different style antenna and get some good performance.
But probably best/easiest to work with the mount you have, add a new no ground plane antenna and appropriate coax.




No, that's a good point, but the short length of coax between the SWR meter and the radio isn't going to impact things that much. The SWR meter is looking at reflected power at that point in the cable.

It's not a lab quality device, it's more of a simple/inexpensive sanity check to make sure the radios internal SWR meter is not lying to you. But, if the radios built in meter is matching pretty close to the external meter, then you're probably good.

Well, when I typed in firestik no ground plane antenna, this was what came up. Is this what you’re talking about? It says it’s 5/8 wave, though. I’ve never seen such a setup where an antenna came with and required you had to use a specific mount and a specific coax that had a loop connector on one end.

https://www.walcottradio.com/firestik-lg3m2b-black-no-ground-plane-cb-antenna-kit-p-2571.html

 

[corneileous]

No I don't care what you do. I am not the FCC. If all you care about is 19AM then the Linc is way over complicated for what you need it for. All the "ham" stuff on it your paying extra for will never get used. And it doesn't have WX.
Like I said I own one. Its nothing special on CB. But I use it on 10 meters a lot so I deal with its CB shortcomings and more complicated interface.

Since the current McKinley wont work with you RK56 mic then maybe the Walker II is a better fit. It works with Dynamic(*) mics,has WX, and a built in SWR meter. I have always found the built in SWR meters on the president stuff to work good enough.


View attachment 110200

(*) you have to set this in the menu, it comes stock set for electret

I’m actually kind of digging that Mc Kinlay radio and it’s fine if a regular mic won’t work with it, I was just curious if it did and if the mic that comes with it is actually a decent mic that works good enough, is clear enough with minimal background noise and is just an overall good mic that unless you just absolutely had to have a different one, really doesn’t need to be replaced with some other brand. The only reason I have a RK56 and have always used the Astatic mics is because they’re good mics for one and they’re a far cry better than the crap mics that Cobra makes.

 

[corneileous]

Also, peaking & tuning your radio is a waste of time & money if you aren't going to put in a quality & properly installed antenna. A stock radio hooked to a high quality & properly installed antenna will get out much better than an overpowered peaked & tuned radio hooked to a crappy antenna install. And you'll be able to receive better too.

All this time, I thought my antenna setup was pretty good. I’ve estimated that I can talk upwards of 5 to six miles if the person I’m talking to has a good setup.

As I’ve said, I kind of had an idea about ground planes when it came to CB radio antennas but I never really fully knew what it meant and besides… yes, I know, they’re truck stops but being that they are truck stops, I had no reason to believe that the antennas they sold- well, not all of them, weren’t necessarily made to just bolt onto the top of your mirror support like I’ve seen all the other truckers do.

But like the infamous Wilson Trucker, or the K40 that I actually had and used once before. Are these the type of antennas that you can mount to the top bar of any old Pete, KW or Freightliner with whatever antenna mount and properly use or are these even the type of antennas like my current FireStik that really ought to be mounted on the top of the truck to get the SWR right?

And I guess now that I just thought about it, I think Wilson makes a fiberglass antenna with an adjustable tip that looks a lot like my current FireStik but I’ve always wondered why it’s had that little wire that comes out of the antenna that you supposedly hook to one of the antenna mounting bracket bolts if a good, low SWR isnt Able to be achieved, or something like that. Would that be a better alternative? All I want is just an antenna that mounts to the mirror bracket, but will give me accurate SWR readings.

 

[mmckenna]

Well, when I typed in firestik no ground plane antenna, this was what came up. Is this what you’re talking about? It says it’s 5/8 wave, though. I’ve never seen such a setup where an antenna came with and required you had to use a specific mount and a specific coax that had a loop connector on one end.

https://www.walcottradio.com/firestik-lg3m2b-black-no-ground-plane-cb-antenna-kit-p-2571.html

Firestik seems to like to use 5/8th's wave antennas (which on their own are not a 'no ground plane' antenna) and just pairing it with a tuned length of coax to act as a counterpoise.

I'm not sure it's the best solution, but I guess it works well enough that people continue to buy them.

In the professional 2 way radio industry, we have true 1/2 wave antennas for mobile use on VHF and above frequencies that will work without a ground plane and don't need tuned lengths of coax.

I'm not active enough in CB radio to know who makes a half wave mobile antenna. I think the Firestik you linked to might be a good option.

 

[corneileous]

Firestik seems to like to use 5/8th's wave antennas (which on their own are not a 'no ground plane' antenna) and just pairing it with a tuned length of coax to act as a counterpoise.

I'm not sure it's the best solution, but I guess it works well enough that people continue to buy them.

In the professional 2 way radio industry, we have true 1/2 wave antennas for mobile use on VHF and above frequencies that will work without a ground plane and don't need tuned lengths of coax.

I'm not active enough in CB radio to know who makes a half wave mobile antenna. I think the Firestik you linked to might be a good option.

About that no ground plane stuff… I was reading this article and was paying particular attention to the section where they started talking about these types of antennas. It started talking about where if you had an RV, or something that had a lot of fiberglass and no metal that one of these NGP antennas is what would be ideal but I got to thinking about it and the 2004 year model Pete I drive does actually have a sheet metal body and I’m pretty sure the mirror attachment is grounded to the chassis so, what would I need to do to make this antenna work? I apologize if you or someone else might’ve explained this but I guess I’m not as knowledgeable on this stuff as I thought I was and there’s just been an overwhelming amount of helpful information brought up in this thread that I’m kinda starting to get a little confused….lol. Btw, I have no problem buying a new antenna, if that’s what it takes, I just really don’t know where to mount it. I could actually mount it to the top of the cab if that’s what it took but without drilling a hole in the roof, I don’t know how I’d mount it unless I got a magnetic-base one, I guess. I do have a long horizontal grab handle bar that’s on the back of the cab that’s below the rear window that I’ve seen a lot of people use for a mount but I’d have to make sure the handle is grounded.

 

[mmckenna]

Providing an antenna with a good ground plane will help performance. If the roof of the cab is metal, then mounting the antenna dead center will give it the ground plane it wants.

Permanent/drilled mount is ideal, but I understand the desire to not do that. If the cab roof is steel, then the magnet mount will work. If it's aluminum, it won't. Other issue with mag mounts is getting the coaxial cable inside to the radio. Running through doors/windows will result in pinched/damaged coax. That'll give you issues down the road.

You want this to work well, but you need to decide how well. The Firestik no ground plane antenna mounted off the mirror will probably work well and give you want you need. An antenna mounted center of the roof will probably work a bit better, but you'll need to deal with getting the cable inside.

It's a challenge, and none of us can answer it for you. Most big trucks I see use the mirror mounts. They work for most users. Not perfect, but for ease of installation and giving acceptable performance, it's hard to beat.

 

[cralt]

I’m actually kind of digging that Mc Kinlay radio and it’s fine if a regular mic won’t work with it, I was just curious if it did and if the mic that comes with it is actually a decent mic that works good enough, is clear enough with minimal background noise and is just an overall good mic that unless you just absolutely had to have a different one, really doesn’t need to be replaced with some other brand. The only reason I have a RK56 and have always used the Astatic mics is because they’re good mics for one and they’re a far cry better than the crap mics that Cobra makes.

The mic that comes with the presidents is loud and very clear. Its a modern electret element. The complaint everyone has with them is they are oddly small. And I will admit that there is a astatic 636l hanging off my Lincoln for that reason alone lol. I don't think it actually sounds any better then the stock president.



And like I said the Bearcat wireless speaker mic works fine with the McKinley so that is always an option. Could be useful if you you spend time outside the truck.

 

[slowmover]

Hey guys, new member here… Well, not entirely new, I guess I made an account back in 2014 and forgot about it but nonetheless, this is my first time posting here. A little background about me; I live in southern Oklahoma and I’ve been a commercial truck driver for going on 12 years. Started out as a regular old freight hauler but for the last nine years, I just drive a dump truck locally, been doing that ever since. My hobbies are tinkering around with things in the garage whether it be some CB repair, working on my RC cars and just whatever in general.

AnyWho, I’ve got a cobra 29 lx… One of the original ones they made about 10 years ago with the full digital display and, it’s been a good radio that’s served it’s purpose. I’ve even had it peaked in tuned but, I have just been considering a newer radio but I don’t really know what I want. There’s nothing wrong with this one other than I’d like to figure out how to turn the antenna warning off because every now and then even though I know I’ve got my SWR set right, sometimes on channel 4 and the higher frequencies that antenna warning will come on and I’ve even noticed quite a few times that if you talk long enough like on channel 4, the radio will kind of like, reboot itself to where it’ll turn off and turn back on again.

Being that I’m not really totally all that necessarily interested in talking to people 20 miles away, I have been considering one of those striker radios but really, I’ve also been interested in one of those Uniden bearcat 880s. I thought about the 980 with the single sideband but quite frankly and quite honestly, I don’t know enough about that to know whether or not that’s something I’d really want. I mean, I know enough that basically that 980 will have 40 more other channels than the regular 880 does but again, I don’t know if that something I truly need, or if that something I would really want to have because this radio is going to be going in a semi for pretty much to be used for talking to the other drivers I work with and for talking to the loader operators and scale houses in the rock and sand plants.

Thanks in advance and nice meeting everyone.

Dump truck, not an end-dump, right?

— I run antennas on OTR tractors as close to 14’ as I can. Skipshooter brand (top load). I don’t know what your clearance needs would be, but height is might.

— New, best-quality coax.

— 12V power from battery

— A PRESIDENT McKinley plus an RM ITALY KL-203 amp is what I’d consider “basic” (and it’s what I gave my son).

— A WEST MOUNTAIN RADIO CLEARSPEECH DSP Speaker is a piece of Amateur gear that cleans up what every CB/Export needs.

I prefer a separate amp versus one integrated. Radio needs to be adjusted for a low dead-key.

 

[slowmover]

The mic that comes with the presidents is loud and very clear. Its a modern electret element. The complaint everyone has with them is they are oddly small. And I will admit that there is a astatic 636l hanging off my Lincoln for that reason alone lol. I don't think it actually sounds any better then the stock president.
View attachment 110213


And like I said the Bearcat wireless speaker mic works fine with the McKinley so that is always an option. Could be useful if you you spend time outside the truck.

X2 on all of this.

 

[corneileous]

Providing an antenna with a good ground plane will help performance. If the roof of the cab is metal, then mounting the antenna dead center will give it the ground plane it wants.

Permanent/drilled mount is ideal, but I understand the desire to not do that. If the cab roof is steel, then the magnet mount will work. If it's aluminum, it won't. Other issue with mag mounts is getting the coaxial cable inside to the radio. Running through doors/windows will result in pinched/damaged coax. That'll give you issues down the road.

You want this to work well, but you need to decide how well. The Firestik no ground plane antenna mounted off the mirror will probably work well and give you want you need. An antenna mounted center of the roof will probably work a bit better, but you'll need to deal with getting the cable inside.

It's a challenge, and none of us can answer it for you. Most big trucks I see use the mirror mounts. They work for most users. Not perfect, but for ease of installation and giving acceptable performance, it's hard to beat.

Well, come to think of it, the roof and cab might be aluminum, I don’t know. I’d just have to go up there some day with a magnet to know for sure.

 

[corneileous]

The mic that comes with the presidents is loud and very clear. Its a modern electret element. The complaint everyone has with them is they are oddly small. And I will admit that there is a astatic 636l hanging off my Lincoln for that reason alone lol. I don't think it actually sounds any better then the stock president.
View attachment 110213


And like I said the Bearcat wireless speaker mic works fine with the McKinley so that is always an option. Could be useful if you you spend time outside the truck.

That’s all I’m concerned about is loud and clear….. well, depending on exactly how small the mic is, is possibly what could make me want to replace it that’s awesome that you say that astatic makes a mic for this radio. But I guess if it feels good in the hand, is this a good enough microphone that you won’t be having to replace the cord on it six months after having it like what I’ve had to do with two road king Mike’s and probably two or three a static Mike’s were after about the first six months of having them, you have to replace the cord because it’ll key up but it won’t talk.

 

[krokus]

Well, come to think of it, the roof and cab might be aluminum, I don’t know. I’d just have to go up there some day with a magnet to know for sure.

If so, there are ways of placing a steel sheet under the roof, to give a magnet something to hold

 

[corneileous]

Dump truck, not an end-dump, right?

— I run antennas on OTR tractors as close to 14’ as I can. Skipshooter brand (top load). I don’t know what your clearance needs would be, but height is might.

— New, best-quality coax.

— 12V power from battery

— A PRESIDENT McKinley plus an RM ITALY KL-203 amp is what I’d consider “basic” (and it’s what I gave my son).

— A WEST MOUNTAIN RADIO CLEARSPEECH DSP Speaker is a piece of Amateur gear that cleans up what every CB/Export needs.

I prefer a separate amp versus one integrated. Radio needs to be adjusted for a low dead-key.

The truck is just a regular tractor daycab but I pull a frame-less 30 foot end-dump trailer.

I think I might’ve heard of those skip shooter antennas but it hasn’t been much. Are they the type that you can just use a regular antenna mount and attach it to the top of your mirror support and actually get an accurate SWR reading with them? I went on Skip shooters website and sent them an email asking if these were antennas that had to have a ground plane or not and what the optimal way was to hook one up but I haven’t heard back from them yet.

Being that I don’t have a sleeper or anything really tall, I’d be just fine with either a 3 foot or a 4 foot fiberglass antenna because as I was saying along time ago with this discussion, from the ground to the top of my stacks is probably only barely 12 feet but from the ground to the top of my cab and the top of my trailer is only barely 10 feet so, an antenna mounted to the top part of my mirror support puts over 75% of it above the highest point on my truck except for the stacks.

 

[corneileous]

If so, there are ways of placing a steel sheet under the roof, to give a magnet something to hold

I’m sure that would work just fine just to give a magnetic mount antenna something to lock onto but I’m more or less talking, would that help with the ground plane if I was to mount the antenna on top of the roof? Even though there to be steel below it, would the aluminum screw with that?

 

[cralt]

that’s awesome that you say that astatic makes a mic for this radio.

No I said astatic makes a mic that works with my Lincoln. The lincoln can work with dynamic mics or electret.
The McKinley ONLY works with electret mics and the after market choices for electret mics is slim to none. So if you get a McKinley your only choices that I know of is the stock one or the bearcat wireless speakermic. Those are the only 2 things I got to work on my McKinley. The whole president line seems to support both but for some reason the McKinley doesn't. Hopefully when the FM version comes they will fix that.

When your shopping for radios look at the specs and make sure it supports dynamic microphones if you plan on using an aftermarket mic. That is the most common and that is what most CBs use. Also pay attention to the pin numbers. Pres is 5 pin. Most after market is 4 pin so you will have to change the plug or run an adaptor.

 

[corneileous]

No I said astatic makes a mic that works with my Lincoln. The lincoln can work with dynamic mics or electret.
The McKinley ONLY works with electret mics and the after market choices for electret mics is slim to none. So if you get a McKinley your only choices that I know of is the stock one or the bearcat wireless speakermic. Those are the only 2 things I got to work on my McKinley. The whole president line seems to support both but for some reason the McKinley doesn't. Hopefully when the FM version comes they will fix that.

When your shopping for radios look at the specs and make sure it supports dynamic microphones if you plan on using an aftermarket mic. That is the most common and that is what most CBs use. Also pay attention to the pin numbers. Pres is 5 pin. Most after market is 4 pin so you will have to change the plug or run an adaptor.

Oh OK, my bad. I thought when you said you had one plugged into your Lincoln that they would work on all the president radios because I never once imagined that a manufacturer would make radios with different microphone configurations. But since you brought it up, I don’t know if they make a a four pin to 6 pin adapter but I do know they make a four pin to a 5 pin adapter because I bought one for a buddy of mine off Amazon to use of a four pin mic on a 5 pin radio but is there any pros or cons especially cons if I did find an adapter that would go from a four pin mike plug to a six pin radio like the McKinley?

 

[cralt]

Oh OK, my bad. I thought when you said you had one plugged into your Lincoln that they would work on all the president radios because I never once imagined that a manufacturer would make radios with different microphone configurations. But since you brought it up, I don’t know if they make a a four pin to 6 pin adapter but I do know they make a four pin to a 5 pin adapter because I bought one for a buddy of mine off Amazon to use of a four pin mic on a 5 pin radio but is there any pros or cons especially cons if I did find an adapter that would go from a four pin mike plug to a six pin radio like the McKinley?

Sorry I am adding confusion to the discussion. My mind is getting fuzzy in my old age lol.
The President radios are actually 6pin. The adaptor is very common because its the same pinout as the Uniden 990/980 radios. Uniden actually ships all their 980ssb radios with them. This is the amazon link to the adaptor

https://www.amazon.com/Uniden-BWZG1889001-4-Pin-Microphone-Adapter/dp/B073XR4RFQ/

I was thinking "5" pin in my head because it only uses 5 of the 6 pins.
Yes it is weird all their radios but the McKinley work with Dynamic mics but it is what it is. You can go to their website and download the manuals and you will see all the radios but the McKinkey have a menu option to select mic type. It will kinda work but the audio will be very low.

https://president-electronics.us/