New to GMRS - help setting up channels - PL tones / Carries Squelch?

[Timberwulf]

I have a Motorola M1225 40w/20ch which is certified for part 95.

I am new to GMRS (licensed), and don't understand the PL coding vs carrier squelch (which I assume is no tone?).

I am in South Florida and we have a ton of open repeaters using PL 141.3.

I want to run full power so the interstitial frs/gmrs I will leave out.

Do I want to run:

GROUP A
Ch Name Frequency PWR OUT PL Rx PL TX
1 GMRS01 462.5500 40w 67.0 67.0
2 GMRS02 462.5750 40w 67.0 67.0
3 GMRS03 462.6000 40w 67.0 67.0
4 GMRS04 462.6250 40w 67.0 67.0
5 GMRS05 462.6500 40w 67.0 67.0
6 GMRS06 462.6750 40w 67.0 67.0
7 GMRS07 462.7000 40w 67.0 67.0
8 GMRS08 462.7250 40w 67.0 67.0
9 GMRS1R 462.5500 40w 141.3 141.3
10 GMRS2R 462.5750 40w 141.3 141.3
11 GMRS3R 462.6000 40w 141.3 141.3
12 GMRS4R 462.6250 40w 141.3 141.3
13 GMRS5R 462.6500 40w 141.3 141.3
14 GMRS6R 462.6750 40w 141.3 141.3
15 GMRS7R 462.7000 40w 141.3 141.3
16 GMRS8R 462.7250 40w 141.3 141.3

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GROUP B
Ch Name Frequency PWR OUT PL Rx PL TX
1 GMRS01 462.5500 40w Carrier Squelch 67.0
2 GMRS02 462.5750 40w Carrier Squelch 67.0
3 GMRS03 462.6000 40w Carrier Squelch 67.0
4 GMRS04 462.6250 40w Carrier Squelch 67.0
5 GMRS05 462.6500 40w Carrier Squelch 67.0
6 GMRS06 462.6750 40w Carrier Squelch 67.0
7 GMRS07 462.7000 40w Carrier Squelch 67.0
8 GMRS08 462.7250 40w Carrier Squelch 67.0
9 GMRS1R 462.5500 40w 141.3 141.3
10 GMRS2R 462.5750 40w 141.3 141.3
11 GMRS3R 462.6000 40w 141.3 141.3
12 GMRS4R 462.6250 40w 141.3 141.3
13 GMRS5R 462.6500 40w 141.3 141.3
14 GMRS6R 462.6750 40w 141.3 141.3
15 GMRS7R 462.7000 40w 141.3 141.3
16 GMRS8R 462.7250 40w 141.3 141.3

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GROUP C
Ch Name Frequency PWR OUT PL Rx PL TX
1 GMRS01 462.5500 40w Carrier Squelch Carrier Squelch
2 GMRS02 462.5750 40w Carrier Squelch Carrier Squelch
3 GMRS03 462.6000 40w Carrier Squelch Carrier Squelch
4 GMRS04 462.6250 40w Carrier Squelch Carrier Squelch
5 GMRS05 462.6500 40w Carrier Squelch Carrier Squelch
6 GMRS06 462.6750 40w Carrier Squelch Carrier Squelch
7 GMRS07 462.7000 40w Carrier Squelch Carrier Squelch
8 GMRS08 462.7250 40w Carrier Squelch Carrier Squelch
9 GMRS1R 462.5500 40w 141.3 141.3
10 GMRS2R 462.5750 40w 141.3 141.3
11 GMRS3R 462.6000 40w 141.3 141.3
12 GMRS4R 462.6250 40w 141.3 141.3
13 GMRS5R 462.6500 40w 141.3 141.3
14 GMRS6R 462.6750 40w 141.3 141.3
15 GMRS7R 462.7000 40w 141.3 141.3
16 GMRS8R 462.7250 40w 141.3 141.3

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GROUP D
Ch Name Frequency PWR OUT PL Rx PL TX
1 GMRS01 462.5500 40w Carrier Squelch 110.9
2 GMRS02 462.5750 40w Carrier Squelch 114.8
3 GMRS03 462.6000 40w Carrier Squelch 118.8
4 GMRS04 462.6250 40w Carrier Squelch 123.0
5 GMRS05 462.6500 40w Carrier Squelch 127.3
6 GMRS06 462.6750 40w Carrier Squelch 131.8
7 GMRS07 462.7000 40w Carrier Squelch 136.5
8 GMRS08 462.7250 40w Carrier Squelch 141.3
9 GMRS1R 462.5500 40w 141.3 141.3
10 GMRS2R 462.5750 40w 141.3 141.3
11 GMRS3R 462.6000 40w 141.3 141.3
12 GMRS4R 462.6250 40w 141.3 141.3
13 GMRS5R 462.6500 40w 141.3 141.3
14 GMRS6R 462.6750 40w 141.3 141.3
15 GMRS7R 462.7000 40w 141.3 141.3
16 GMRS8R 462.7250 40w 141.3 141.3

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GROUP D
Ch Name Frequency PWR OUT PL Rx PL TX
1 GMRS01 462.5500 40w 110.9 110.9
2 GMRS02 462.5750 40w 114.8 114.8
3 GMRS03 462.6000 40w 118.8 118.8
4 GMRS04 462.6250 40w 123.0 123.0
5 GMRS05 462.6500 40w 127.3 127.3
6 GMRS06 462.6750 40w 131.8 131.8
7 GMRS07 462.7000 40w 136.5 136.5
8 GMRS08 462.7250 40w 141.3 141.3
9 GMRS1R 462.5500 40w 141.3 141.3
10 GMRS2R 462.5750 40w 141.3 141.3
11 GMRS3R 462.6000 40w 141.3 141.3
12 GMRS4R 462.6250 40w 141.3 141.3
13 GMRS5R 462.6500 40w 141.3 141.3
14 GMRS6R 462.6750 40w 141.3 141.3
15 GMRS7R 462.7000 40w 141.3 141.3
16 GMRS8R 462.7250 40w 141.3 141.3

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IF I understand this correctly - Group C and D would match most bubble pack radios like motorola talkabout.for the GMRS only channels allowing my handhelds to also work with the car.

Basically this is what I want:

I want matching radios for each of our cars so that my family, and road trip friends (with their own license) can communicate. I want to program the first 8 channels to have the most versatile use (but also dont want to hear static the whole time while using them). I could care less if they are jammed up with other users, I would need to wait to transmit anyway so PL would only make sense if it keeps there from being constant static, or allows me to communicate with the cheaper bubble pack radios. The last 8 channels are for use with all the local travel repeaters PL 141.3.

This being a 20ch system would allow me to have 4 extra channels I havn't yet decided on - If anyone has ideas, especially for South or central Florida, let me know.

Also If I am confused about carrier squelch vs no tone please advise - this is all really new to me. Thank you.

 

[Timberwulf]

Sorry I had a few mistakes and may have been a little unclear, the last channel set would be "Group E", not D. Of the 5 above, what looks most correct for my needs, I will only program one set into each radio, I just dont know what gives me the best versatility for my needs?

Again I want the last 8 for the local repeaters PL 141.3, but with the first 8 should I be running:
1. Carrier Squelch/no tone IN/OUT,
2.Carrier Squelch IN / PL OUT
3. PL IN/OUT
and if using PL tones, should I be using 67.0 for both in/out on each frequency, or are there specific PL tones per band that are most common (like I listed in the second "Group D" (E). I seemed to match that up to Motoroals Talkabout, but then again their documentation was general and cryptic so it may be way off.

Thank you in advance,

 

[NDRADIONUT]

Maybe the a group with a higher pl tone on all of them like 100.0 ?? Lots of people seem to be using 67.0...

 

[mmckenna]

The PL/DPL tones would need to match what the other radios have. All the above options should work IF all the radios match. Unless you want to listen to everyone else on the frequency, you'd be best served to set up your TX and RX PL tones to match. In other words, set up:
TX: 462.550
RX 462.550
TX PL: 67.0
RX PL: 67.0

Carrier Squelch or CSQ is no PL/DPL, but the radio still has a squelch setting so you don't have to listen to static all the time. You will hear any/all traffic in your area on the frequency. Might be good, might be bad.

The best way to do this is to agree ahead of time on a channel/PL tone and stick to that. When I was active in GMRS the extended family all used 462.550MHz with a 254.1hZ PL tone.

The trouble with the consumer grade radios is that the "interference eliminator code" are not consistent across brands. You'd need to look at each individual radio and make sure it's set to the right code.

Personally, I think "Group A" or "Group D" would be your best bet. If most of the repeaters in your area are using 141.3 hZ PL tone, then stick with that. Use the simplex channels for your car to car communications. Having the PL tones set on both RX and TX will eliminate having to listen to everything else, including all the repeater outputs.

Ideally the radio should be set up to use the "HUB" function. This will use the metal button on the back of the microphone to control the squelch function. When the microphone is on the hook (or Hang Up Box -HUB), the receive tone squelch will function. You'll only hear traffic that has the correct PL tones. When you take the microphone off hook, then it automatically switches to carrier squelch. This is a pretty standard set up on radios that are on commonly used frequencies. You only have to listen to traffic with the same PL tone when the microphone is on the hook, but when you take the mic off the hook to transmit, it automatically switches to carrier squelch, so you can monitor the frequency before transmitting and potentially interfering with someone else.

 

[mmckenna]

Maybe the a group with a higher pl tone on all of them like 100.0 ?? Lots of people seem to be using 67.0...

And, YES, I wholeheartedly agree with this. 67.0hZ and 100hZ are a common default PL tone for many radios. Most consumers never bother to read the directions (especially the part about getting a license) and don't know how to change the PL/DPL tones. They'll simply turn the "interference eliminator tone" on or off and leave them set to default. I made the mistake of doing this. I had all or family radios set to 100hZ PL tone. When the county fair rolled into town (about 2 miles from my house) I had to listen to all the vendors at the fair).

Picking something else can preserve sanity. Especially if you pick one of the non-standard tones, like 254.1 or a DPL code.

You can always program up the monitor button on your radio if you want to open the squelch and listen to everything. Not sure about that specific model, but many of them had two stages. A short push took the PL/DPL function off the channel temporarily, but keeps the carrier squelch on. A longer press opens the carrier squelch. Can be a handy function.

 

[Timberwulf]

Thank you Both for the insight. I am just learning HAM and GMRS (both licensed) and trying to, 1) stay within the regulations, 2) keep from making a mistake by not programming them properly.

Thank you again.

 

[KevinC]

No comment on your original question, but I applaud you for trying to stay legal.

 

[Timberwulf]

Thank you Kevin, legal just seems like the better option, though it has been a pain finding decent part 95 radios that have any kind of power to do this with.

I am paying to have the motorolas programmed, that is why I want them done right and am trying to straighten this out ahead of time. My handhelds are Kenwood TK-3130's (also part 95) and I have the gear to reprogram them to match the motorlas for simplex. I debated wanting to integrate with the bubblepack radios, but after reading some of the info above (especially the thing about the fair coming to town), I think I will set my own PL codes (not 67.0) so I have some clear air. I was also unaware of the monitor button to listed to CSQ, that gives me the option I was looking for to monitor the air before transmitting.

Thank you all again.

 

[Timberwulf]

I re-did the list I;d love to hear your thoughts.

Ch Name Frequency PWR PL RX PL TX
1 GMRS01 462.5500 40w 146.2 146.2
2 GMRS02 462.5750 40w 146.2 146.2
3 GMRS03 462.6000 40w 146.2 146.2
4 GMRS04 462.6250 40w 146.2 146.2
5 GMRS05 462.6500 40w 146.2 146.2
6 GMRS06 462.6750 40w 146.2 146.2
7 GMRS07 462.7000 40w 146.2 146.2
8 GMRS08 462.7250 40w 146.2 146.2
9 GMRS1R 462.5500 40w 141.3 141.3
10 GMRS2R 462.5750 40w 141.3 141.3
11 GMRS3R 462.6000 40w 141.3 141.3
12 GMRS4R 462.6250 40w 141.3 141.3
13 GMRS5R 462.6500 40w 141.3 141.3
14 GMRS6R 462.6750 40w 141.3 141.3
15 GMRS7R 462.7000 40w 141.3 141.3
16 GMRS8R 462.7250 40w 141.3 141.3
17 GMRS1C 462.5500 40w CSQ CSQ
18 GMRS3C 462.6000 40w CSQ CSQ
19 GMRS5C 462.6500 40w CSQ CSQ
20 GMRS7C 462.7000 40w CSQ CSQ

The first 1-8 channels I chose a random PL code that is hopefully pretty clear of standard bubblepack traffic.
Its above 100hz to avoid false decode from alternative noises, but also below 170hz, as I've read the tones can be audible and annoying. I avoided the multiple harmonics of 60hz (AC) (118.8, 179.9). And stayed away from 131.8 or 136.5 because of DPL. Any other gotcha's I should know or does 146.2 seem ok?

The 9-16 are set to the travel tone 141.3 for all local repeaters.

17-20 are Carrier Squelch in case I want to talk to someone that has no tone set, like bubble pack walkies with pl codes off.

Please let me know if this looks good. Especially let me know if anything looks like it is not in regulation.
Thank you, Mark

 

[NDRADIONUT]

Looks good im sure u will still get some random crap at times but thats just how it is... Tone 206.5 would be good most radios dont have that one...

 

[mmckenna]

The audible tones you might hear on the higher PL's are usually stripped off by a high pass filter in the audio stages. Not all radios have them, but most commercial/professional ones do. Even if it does get through, it's not a big deal. I was using 254.1hZ on a repeater and I had the high pass filter shut off. All I could hear was a very low rumble in the background of the audio. Sounded more like road noise. In fact, I only heard it with the engine off (Diesel pickup).

I'd put 462.675 in your last 4 channels. While unlikely, you could have someone without repeater access calling on 462.675, and it might be helpful to hear that in an emergency. Probably not many know about that, so very unlikely, but would be good practice.

As for installing the radio....
Power directly off the battery to reduce picked up electrical noises. Tapping into cigarette light plugs or existing wiring can be a source of much hair pulling.
Install a proper NMO mount antenna for best performance. I didn't see if you mentioned your antenna choice, but a proper permanent mount NMO on top of the vehicle with a good antenna will really improve things. Also, terminate the coax with the proper mini-UHF connector at the radio end. Adding adapters on these radios is a good way to snap off the connector.

And....
These radios are pretty good. What -really- makes them shine is hooking up the external speaker. Go with a full size Motorola remote speaker. It'll really provide wonderful audio and plenty of volume.
Where this really becomes important is when you are talking with the consumer grade FRS/GMRS radios. Most of them use narrow band FM across the board. While this will work with your wide band radio, it usually results in low audio. Being able to get a bit louder audio will make life easier.

 

[mmckenna]

If you ever decide to expand your fleet of radios, take a look at a used Motorola CDM-1250 (64 channels) or CDM-1550 (many are 160 channels). They are a more modern radio with a 14 character display. Good performance and able to do a remote head mount. I've got several I use on VHF and they really work well.

 

[FKimble]

And when you get your radio(s) programed, be sure an tell them no password locking of the program. Later you may want to get the cables and software to program them yourself. Would hate for you to have to pay again to get a password removed. If they insist on locking it then they need to give you the password on company letterhead so if it doesn't work you have proof they screwed up.

 

[Timberwulf]

Thank you both for the extra tips, I will add that emergency Freq to my final 4 and make sure its not password locked. As for the direct battery connection, I assume I should be using an inline fuse still, correct?

As for antenna I think I am going with a Laird Phantom UHF 3db and NMO magnetic mount with the correct connector. I have a company car and cannot permanently attach it to mine. My wife also might kill me if I did it to hers. Any thoughts on this antenna setup?

 

[mmckenna]

Thank you both for the extra tips, I will add that emergency Freq to my final 4 and make sure its not password locked. As for the direct battery connection, I assume I should be using an inline fuse still, correct?

Absolutely. A fuse on the positive lead within a few inches of the connection to the vehicle battery. I don't recall what the stock fuse size is for a 40 watt UHF radio, it's either 15 amp or 20 amp.

As for antenna I think I am going with a Laird Phantom UHF 3db and NMO magnetic mount with the correct connector. I have a company car and cannot permanently attach it to mine. My wife also might kill me if I did it to hers. Any thoughts on this antenna setup?

Those antennas are not always the best performers. You might do better (and save some money) with a simple 6" tall quarter wave whip. The quarter wave antenna should be less than $10.00

 

[Timberwulf]

Those antennas are not always the best performers. You might do better (and save some money) with a simple 6" tall quarter wave whip. The quarter wave antenna should be less than $10.00

I will have to look into that, I'm more worried about quality than looks.

Also, should I be running 12.5khz bandwidth spacing, I assume it will have less problems? or should I mix in some 25khz for better range?

 

[Timberwulf]

One last major question - for my Travel Tone Repeater section PL141.3 (ch9-16). Do I use the transmit frequency of 467.abcd and matching receive of 462.abcd?

I'm still trying to understand how this works.

 

[N4GIX]

All GMRS are wide-band, so don't even consider narrow-band.

Transmit on 467.xxxx; receive on 462.xxxx

See here for a complete list of frequencies:
http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/FRS/GMRS_combined_channel_chart#FRS.2FGMRS_Channels

 

[mmckenna]

I will have to look into that, I'm more worried about quality than looks.

Also, should I be running 12.5khz bandwidth spacing, I assume it will have less problems? or should I mix in some 25khz for better range?

Right, use 25KHz, that is what the repeaters will be using and most "real" GMRS radios.

Most of the consumer grade FRS/GMRS radios are 12.5KHz, or at least they were last time I looked. Cheaper to produce and "align" if they keep the FRS and GMRS the same. If you were going to be using a lot of consumer grade radios, you might consider having some channels set up for narrow, but I don't think you need to.

 

[SCPD]

If you can do DPL I would recommend using it. Less chance of someone using a PL that you have. When I had my GMRS repeater up, it was DPL 627 if I can remember. Never had a problem with my repeater, kept the people modifying the bubble pack radios to get on it. Some radios would not to a good job filtering the tone audio on the higher PL ones so you hear a higher pitch tone in the audio albeit very low but it was there.. DPL does not suffer that, it's a digital stream no matter what the code is. I should get my GMRS license renewed and get my repeater back on the air, I really miss it and it was very useful.