New to trunking...

[OmensEdge]

I just bought a new BC250D about a week ago and I'm having a little trouble programming the trunked frequencies.

First of all, I'm a little confused about where they go. The BC250D has 10 banks that hold a 100 channels each, right? I just started programming the first set of conventional frequencies into my first bank (1-100) earlier tonight. My first question is, can I program a set of trunked frequencies anywhere within the first bank on my scanner along with the conventional frequencies, or do I have to program them into a seperate bank (say my second bank)? In other words, do they have to be seperate from the conventional frequencies?

If someone could answer this, it would help me out alot. I may continue asking questions in this thread concerning the BC250D trunking problems I'm having if someone out there either has one of these scanners and knows how to use it or if someone here knows a great deal about how to program trunked systems on to any scanner.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[DJ88]

Yes you can program a trunked system into the same bank that you have conventional frequencies in.

As for any other questions you may have, just ask, and as often as you need to. If you are programming trunked systems for the first time, it can be a bit confusing. However, there are a lot of knowledgeable people on this board who will be able to help you should you run into a problem.

 

[n4voxgill]

I know it sounds like a simple question, but to correctly answer requires more information. If any of the systems you are trying to program are EDACS then they must be programed differently than motorola. So provide the type systems and even the name of the systems and it will help.

 

[DJ88]

You are correct, and I apologize for the oversight on my part. With LTR and EDACS systems the frequencies have to be programmed into specific channels in the bank. So yes, the type and name of the system would be helpful.

 

[JoeyC]

The info provided is 100% true, however, if there are agencies on the trunk system that are high up on your listening priorities, you will find it in your best interest to program the trunk system in a bank of its own, especially if you have plenty of room in other banks for everything you want to listen to. You will find out the benefits of this, after you've monitored a system mixed with conventional freqs.

 

[OmensEdge]

Thanks for the info guys! Yeah, I should have mentioned the trunking type. All the frequencies I have right now that I'm trying to program are Motorola Type II.

I guess my problem is that I'm kinda picky about where everything goes. I sort of wanted everything to be organized in a certain order and I'm basically trying to program these trunked frequencies in between 2 sets of conventional frquencies. I have 47 frequencies in my first bank so far and I wanted the 800 band trunked frquencies to go in at channels 13 to 26. Does this sound appropriate?

The next question, when you designate a bank as having trunked frequencies, does it still scan and pick up the other conventional frequencies? Last night I was messing around with the scanner again and it might have been because it was late or something, but it seemed that the only transmissions that were coming though were in the 800 band.

Also, do you have to specify (or mark) the computer controller somehow? I'm not exactly sure of what the thing is called. It's the frequency that has that constant noise coming from it, the buzzing sound. Is that just added straight in with the other frequencies?

 

[DJ88]

The channel / frequency you are speaking of is called the Control Channel. You don't have to do anything special with it. It gets programmed in the same way as the rest of them. As for not receiving the conventional frequencies in that bank, it may well have been that it was late at night and there was no activity on them. If the problem persists, post here.

 

[OmensEdge]

Okay, I went ahead and erased the trunking frequencies I had setup in the first bank and started fresh on the second bank. I plan to use the second bank for the sole purpose of trunk tracking just to make things easier and less confusing from now on.

I followed the instructions in my manual and I'm sort of confused to what a couple of terms mean and what they refer to. The first is 'scan lists' and the second is the 'talk group IDs'. Now, here's a sample from some trunked frequencies in my area from the Fleetcall site:

Frequencies:
851.7125 852.7125 853.7125 854.7125 855.7125
856.4625 857.4625 858.4625 859.4875 860.4625

Fire Operations:
Fire Public Safety -- Fire (All Call) 215
Fire Public Safety -- Fire (All Call) 311
Fire -- Fire (Dispatch) 208

Police Operations:
Police Public Safety -- Police (Admin) 58
Police Public Safety -- Police (Det #1) 496
Police Public Safety -- Police (Det #2) 528
Police Safety -- Police (Detective) 848
Police Public Safety -- Police (Dispatch) 16

My first question is, what are the numbers that are listed to the right of the channels? Are these the IDs? I setup my first (what I thought was a) scanlist after I had entered all the frequencies at the top. Then I entered the IDs and alpha tags for probably the first 5 police channels before I stopped. I started to program them in the scanlist (again, what I think it is) and was going to designate this scanlist as my police channel. As I started to scan, it would scan through both banks (the first which has my conventional channels and my second which has the trunked). After awhile, when it would hit the second bank, ID Scan would come up on the screen and it would show the frequency 854.7125 each time it would come around. Now, I don't think the first few channels and IDs I entered are very active so I'm thinking that maybe this is why there hasn't been alot of action on these channels. I was thinking of adding some of the county police frequncies in a little bit here to see if I am getting more action on those. I guess I'm wondering if I'm doing everything right so far? Am I making this more complicated than it is?

 

[n4voxgill]

It sure would help if you would just say what system this is. If it is a motorola as you say, then you only have to program in the up to four frequencies that can be used as control channels. There is a good chance that the data base on this site shows which frequencies those are.

It is also possible that you are making it to complicated. A scanner only stops on the control channel. In the trunking mode it does not scan the other frequencies in the system. When a command goes out to a talk group it creates the frequency for the radios and scanners to go to and receive the transmission.

You only have to program in the talk group and whatever info you want displayed when there are transmissions for that talk group. It does not have to be exactly like the trunked system uses as your scanner only looks for the talk group number and then displays whatever you put in.

 

[OmensEdge]

Okay, yeah, the 4 frequencies are listed on this site for my area. I actually didn't understand what you meant until about 20 minutes ago when I started navigating the other areas of this site besides the forum.

So now, All I have to do to receive any of the units that use the trunked Motorola Type 2 system in my area is enter the 4 primary control channel frequencies and the IDs that correspond with each unit? Does this mean basically that I can track the 32 units that use the system inside of those 4 frequencies? So I will only need 4 empty spaces in my bank to track all of those right?

One more question, when my manual says that I can only track one type of trunked system per bank in my scanner, does that mean I can only track one type of trunking system (such as Motorola I or II) or is it saying that I can only track one set of trunked frequencies?

 

[INDY72]

One system type per bank. You could concievably run a whole states system with only a couple of banks using the CC only method. Or you could program in a whole travel area, like City X CC's, then a space, then County Y's CC's, etc... You can't mix an EDACS and a Motorola system, since you can't use CC only for EDACS systems as far as I know.

 

[DJ88]

I could be wrong, but I vaguely remember reading somewhere on this site that if you are going to track a trunked system using the control channels only, you have to program that somehow into the scanner. I have the BC785D, the base model of the 250D. I checked my manual but it doesn't mention it, but as I said, I think you have to do something with the unit for it to use the control channels only. If I am wrong, someone please correct me.

I have a couple of trunked systems in my scanner and, just to be on the safe side, have all the frequencies for each system programmed in. It doesn't take that long to put all of them in. You don't have to alpha tag the frequencies because when they appear on the screen, the alpha tag info doesn't show anyway. So, putting them all in only takes a few minutes, and I know for sure, that the system will work properly. It may work fine using the CCs only, but this is just the way I prefer to do it.

Also, you can program your unit to do an ID search, where it will pick up all active talk groups in the system. Just press and hold the trunk button until "ID SEARCH" appears on the screen and release the button. If you find one you would like to keep in the scanner just press the Enter button during the transmission and it will automatically go into the next open space in the ID List.

If you want to go back to the ID Scan mode, where you only hear the IDs you have programmed in, just press and hold the Trunk button again until "ID SCAN" appears on the screen, then release it.

BTW, the numbers to the right of the channels on your list above are the Talk Group IDs. Don't know if anyone actually answered this for you or not.

 

[fmon]

OmensEdge,

If you are only using CC's you need to set your scanner to Plan 1 for your Kazoo system. In the BC785D this info is on page 66. Look in your Index for Control Channel Only Mode.

Also, where did you get this info from?
Fire Public Safety -- Fire (All Call) 215
Fire Public Safety -- Fire (All Call) 311
The reason I ask is in Mot II systems, ID 215 is a status bit of Fire Dispatch, which is ID 208. ID 311 is a status bit of L.E.I.N. (whatever that is), which is ID 304. How to Toggle the Status Bit should also be listed in the Index. Default is Status Bit ON, which would list ID 208 and 304 in the above examples.

 

[OmensEdge]

BTW, the numbers to the right of the channels on your list above are the Talk Group IDs. Don't know if anyone actually answered this for you or not.

Alright, thanks. I was still wondering about that. And actually, I'll probably go ahead and enter all the frequencies when I start working on this again later. I just wondered if by entering more than the 4 primary control channels, I was entering more than I needed to.

Also, where did you get this info from?
Fire Public Safety -- Fire (All Call) 215
Fire Public Safety -- Fire (All Call) 311

I just pasted that from the Bearcat Fleetcall Trunktracking frequency site where it gives you a short sample of the trunked systems in your area. Kalamazoo in my case (don't know how you picked up on that).

I'm gonna spend a good amount of time on this tonight and hopefully I've learned enough about this to get me up and running. I'm pretty confident now that I have things figured out. I'll post again and let you guys know how everything goes.

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[fmon]

Kalamazoo in my case (don't know how you picked up on that).

I typed your 851.7125 into the Type/Frequency Motorola box in RR Database *Search for radio data*. Only two of the 7 returns were Public Safety, Clicked on Kazoo and yelled BINGO! :wink:

Good luck on your work tonight. Software makes the effort much easier, but manually programming will give you a better understanding of the scanner.

BTW, a couple of years ago, a young lady from Kazoo sent me a Pro-92 for realignment. She could barely receive the 800Mhz CC. It took about 30 min. on the bench to bring the range back to life then reload her system for return shipping.

 

[OmensEdge]

Well, it's a good thing I didn't program those channels in the other night. I was still trying to fill up my first bank with conventional frequencies. Anyways, I went to get the trunked frquencies off the database tonight and found some information that might end up giving me problems.

Kalamazoo Public Safety:

16 001 Special Ops
48 003 Central Dispatch
80 005 K.P.S. TAC 1
112 007 K.P.S. TAC 2
144 009 K.P.S. TAC 3
176 00b K.P.S. TAC 4
208 00d Kalamazoo Fire Dispatch
240 00f K.P.S. TAC 5
256 010 Fire Info
272 011 K.P.S. TAC 6
304 013 L.E.I.N.
336 015 K.V.E.T. Common
368 017 Kalamazoo Fire (Stations)
432 01b M.E.P.S.S.
464 01d Tactical Response
496 01f Detective Div-1
528 021 Detective Div-2
560 023 K.V.E.T. -2
592 025 K.V.E.T. -3
624 027 K.V.E.T. -4
656 029 K.V.E.T. -5
688 02b S.W.A.T. -1
720 02d S.W.A.T. -2
752 02f K.V.E.T. (Common)
784 031 Metro Transit(AUX1)
816 033 Metro Transit
848 035 Detective
944 03b WMU Police
1264 04f Emergency Signal
4816 12d Metro Transit Mechanical
27216 6a5 Kzo County Sheriff
27248 6a7 Kzo Sheriff Unknown

Those were the IDs I was going to enter in. As I previously stated, they are Motorola II. Now, this is something I read in another part of the site:

Kalamazoo City Public Safety went live on the MPSCS system on November 9, 2004. There have been numerous reports of significant reception problems from both the portables and mobile radios. Numerous calls are being missed as the mobiles and portables are not receiving the radio traffic. Likewise, the 9-1-1 Dispatch Center is complaining they can't receive the portables inside certain buildings. Currently, MPSCS technicians are working on the problem, which may eventually require the installation of additional radio towers across the city and county, to eliminate many dead spots. However, the key to making any future improvements a reality, is securing the funding to do so.

Now, I do have the digital card that goes with the BC250D. Should I suspect that KPS isn't using Motorola II anymore? Also, does this mean it's probably going to be some time before I'm able to pick up anything from KPS?

 

[k8tmk]

fmon:

I saw an earlier post you made where you told the gentleman to choose Plan 1 for Kazoo. Actually, I think Plan 2 is a better idea because it receives all of the possible "splinter" frequencies. Seems to me that Plan 1 would cause the scanner to not receive some of the frequencies. At least I use Plan 2 in Southwestern Michigan

Randy

 

[DJ88]

For your 250D enter the first row, or left hand row of talk groups, the one that starts with 16. Do not enter the row that starts with 001.

 

[fmon]

fmon:

I saw an earlier post you made where you told the gentleman to choose Plan 1 for Kazoo. Actually, I think Plan 2 is a better idea because it receives all of the possible "splinter" frequencies. Seems to me that Plan 1 would cause the scanner to not receive some of the frequencies. At least I use Plan 2 in Southwestern Michigan

Randy

Could be Randy,

Are these the correct freqs for Kazoo?
851.7125
852.7125
853.7125
854.7125
855.7125
856.4625
857.4625
858.4625
859.4875 Is this correct or should the RR Database list 859.4625 instead?
860.4625
If so, Plan 1 fits for the BC250 and 785 and should also fit for the 296 and 796. Plan 2 may work also because the highest freq is less then 869.0000. But with Plan 2, the scanner may stretch resources looking for splinters, which do not exist in the list above.

BTW, I saved the .spg for the Pro-92 mailed to me from Kazoo for alignment and that .spg has a date of 09/11/2002. I also opened the file in Win92, the frequencies and 33 ID’s are exactly the same as listed in RR Database. Though it appears changes are forthcoming.

 

[OmensEdge]

Alright guys, I'm still a little confused here.

Should I even bother trying to program the KPS trunked system into my scanner since it seems they have gone digital?

Does anyone have the previous trunked configuration in one of their scanners that they could monitor and let me know if the system is still active?