kd7rto
Member
I'm just hoping that the doors permanently close at MA-COM, before this Las Vegas system goes any further.
New York terminates contract with M/A-Com
- Thread starter APX8000
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Successful build outs???
OpenSky - NO. NONE! ZERO! ZILCH!
EDACS - partially - its built any way, but has HUGE WARTS - FL SLERS
P25 - ?????
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So you're saying you want radio systems you can scan, regardless of which works best?
That's selfish.
ElroyJetson
Getting tired of all the stupidity.
The Florida SLERS system does indeed have many warts. Ask any FHP officer about how well the system works and he'll probably cause ears to start burning in Lynchburg from what he says to you. There are
MANY dead zones along the turnpike and interstates, which are where the FHP does most of their work,
and many dead zones outside of it as well. For a "statewide" system, it's far short of its goals.
But on the upside, it can be upgraded to full P25 Phase II for an exorbitant price!
What I'd do if I were Motorola is I'd watch this situation carefully and snap up M/A-Com the moment
it comes up for sale. Continue to support existing customers using EDACS for the time being, while
setting a plan in place to slowly convert them over to Moto technology on a replacement program.
Custom build new radio code and firmware for the later models of radios that will allow them to
operate on Motorola proprietary system types, too, to make interoperability with neighboring Moto
users a simple thing.
Elroy
MANY dead zones along the turnpike and interstates, which are where the FHP does most of their work,
and many dead zones outside of it as well. For a "statewide" system, it's far short of its goals.
But on the upside, it can be upgraded to full P25 Phase II for an exorbitant price!
What I'd do if I were Motorola is I'd watch this situation carefully and snap up M/A-Com the moment
it comes up for sale. Continue to support existing customers using EDACS for the time being, while
setting a plan in place to slowly convert them over to Moto technology on a replacement program.
Custom build new radio code and firmware for the later models of radios that will allow them to
operate on Motorola proprietary system types, too, to make interoperability with neighboring Moto
users a simple thing.
Elroy
John_M
Member
MA-COM will put together a big story on how NY hindered their efforts to get the system working and present it to anybody who cares to listen. Even cheap is supposed to work and it's all in the contract.
I wonder if it will be useful to watch TYCO stock today...
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Motorola will be loving all of this, it wouldn't surprise me if they were giving some of these negative stories a helping hand.
I still think some of the big companies should join together to provide a sensible alternative choice to the big M.
I still think some of the big companies should join together to provide a sensible alternative choice to the big M.
"How they define "success" is totally up in the air!"
It's not up in the air, it's underground. Just ask any honey dipper, he'll tell you about "suck cess".
It's not up in the air, it's underground. Just ask any honey dipper, he'll tell you about "suck cess".
radionerd13669
Useless Contributor
Just an FYI Motorola could not afford Ma/Com at this point Motorola isnt in very good shape either.
NO WONDER a P7100 on eBay went for $50!!
First of all, let it be noted that I'm not particularly a fan of MA/COM, and I'm not securely in MotherMoto's pocket either, but I do know of a couple of EDACS analog systems in areas that I visit frequently that work well and without undue hassle. One has been converted to digital EDACS for the local channels, and to P25 interops to comply with all the surrounding MotherMoto systems. It is also equipped with analog tactical talkgroups and simplex tactical channels. It performs and interops as advertised, and in fact, is so transparent in the interops channels that I thought they had gone to the Batwing side until I saw two officers carrying new MA/COM portables. Somebody was obviously paying attention and performed due diligence in the design, construction, and testing stages.
The second system is also working very well component-wise, but the region and its communities have outgrown the coverage area and the traffic level has reached a point that's continually close to the system's max capacity. It desperately needs to be updated and the coverage expanded. It's also surrounded by Moto systems, BTW. OpenSky is what they're strongly considering. If "they" fail to do the proper things during the design, construction and testing stages, and if "they" underfund and shortcut the project, then the way I see it, the customer is as guilty as the vendor if it all doesn't work as promised. If, on the other hand, all the i's are dotted and all the t's are crossed and the system still doesn't work, shame on MA/COM.
The second system is also working very well component-wise, but the region and its communities have outgrown the coverage area and the traffic level has reached a point that's continually close to the system's max capacity. It desperately needs to be updated and the coverage expanded. It's also surrounded by Moto systems, BTW. OpenSky is what they're strongly considering. If "they" fail to do the proper things during the design, construction and testing stages, and if "they" underfund and shortcut the project, then the way I see it, the customer is as guilty as the vendor if it all doesn't work as promised. If, on the other hand, all the i's are dotted and all the t's are crossed and the system still doesn't work, shame on MA/COM.
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Too often an RFP is put out, vendors submit bids, someone will be awarded the bid. Then the entity who put the RFP out will cheap it here, then there, and when construction finally begins it is a shadow of the RFP. After it is built, DANG IT it doesn't work like the RFP!
I'd bet what NY RFP'ed and what they agreed to pay for are not even close.
OR---perhaps MA/COM bid it low to win and overpromised.
I'd bet what NY RFP'ed and what they agreed to pay for are not even close.
OR---perhaps MA/COM bid it low to win and overpromised.
The typical scenario is a flawed needs assessment, a mediocre consultant writes a flawed RFP based on the flawed needs assessment, the politicians underfund the project, the customer expectations are set too high, the engineers are told to shut up and do what they're told, the manufacturer and prime contractors try to jump through hoops that are impossible to jump through, the project is late and over budget, and fails to meet performance objectives - which were poorly defined at the start, and the manufacturer gets ALL of the blame for a system that doesn't work very good.
The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I've heard that NY ended up expecting M/A-Com to provide all sorts of things that were never specified in the original contract, for no additional cost.
BTW, have you looked at Motorola lately? I know some really smart people who think they'll be in the tank before M/A-Com is.
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I was being very polite when I said it has warts. Your on the mark, plus a litany of other issues from redunancy to surviability during a hurricane or other disaster. Lets just say its not good.
Remember that the State of FL doesn't really own the system right now thanks to the crooked deal that was setup. People should be in jail for this alone.
Motorola and EDACS each has their pros and cons.
As for Big M buying up m/a-crud.... well with the credit markets and the cell handset division being a huge drain on Big M in general I don't know if thats possible. Plus if m/a-crud goes thud... theres going to be some lawsuits like the Commonwealth of PA for sure, no buyer would want to deal with that mess.
K4APR
Member
The only one that I am aware of that works with any reliability is the Bedford/Lynchburg system in Virginia. This is ONLY because its in MA/COM's own backyard. They are based in Lynchburg, VA.
Even at that, ask the users, they say it sucks! I never used it, but I did listen to it when I was a radio tech in Roanoke, VA. It was spotty at best for me.
Not that I'm M/A-Com's biggest fan - I'm actually not - but I would like to see it treated fairly. What exactly was "spotty" about it? I'm really curious. Although I wasn't it's primary caregiver, I am familiar with a large EDACS system that suffered a shoddy installation from a subcontractor, and incompetent maintenance for over ten years. Yet the system cranked along year after year after year, working fine, for the most part.
The Mastr 2 and Mastr 3 radios are excellent - rock solid reliability, the only weak point being the PA's which would fail if the current limiter was set wrong, or the power out set too high. The system switch ran for nearly 15 years without crashing - EVER. The GE designed receiver voters are the best there is, bar none. The subscriber equipment (portables and mobiles) had no unusual reliability issues.
The system I'm familiar with suffered from bad antennas which weren't properly weatherproofed, broken wiring from a poor installation, levels set wrong, simulcast alignment that was set at installation - and then forgotten about. Not to mention, not nearly enough sites to cover the area because the customer got a case of the cheaps and slashed the budget time and again. Oh... and I almost forgot the part 15 microwave links with no redundancy that would fail at lunch time because of interference from microwave ovens. And this system caused M/A-Com to get a black eye for a crappy product.
So... tell me, what exactly was spotty about it, and how was it M/A-Com's fault?
P
PolarBear25
Guest
I completely agree Mr. Jetson and then you just have Motorola and E.F. Johnson both of which are interactive, with each other on Smartnet, and Smartzone systems, and on P 25 systems as well.
Well you said it right ther GE components, GE engineering. I completely agree quality equipment. Now fast forward to 2009, M/A COM which doesn't exist anymore btw, Tyco Electronics, is NOT GE. There is a huge difference in the quality of the equipment and the field engineering. You can't even compare GE to TE, they are night and day.
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