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DaveNF2G
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Motorola is probably not financially solvent enough right now to qualify to bid on any new New York projects.
New York terminates contract with M/A-Com
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Who else is there? The only other names I can think of are Kenwood and TETRA, and I'm not even sure that Kenwood even makes radio systems.
Perhaps the best solution is for each county to build there own system and link them together somehow, rather than through a statewide system.
Perhaps the best solution is for each county to build there own system and link them together somehow, rather than through a statewide system.
Because bean counters outnumber and outrank experienced telecom engineers.
iamhere300
Member
IF the state decides to continue with this idea, they need to go with a P25 system, end of story. If the SP wants their system unmonitorable, they can do encryption on the P25, simple as that. Of course, with the economy in the crapper, this is a very big IF now.
One good thing to come out of this whole mess, aside from the obvious that we won't be stuck with a pos OpenScam system now, is that any subsequent attempts at building this network should draw a lot of attention and scrutiny. Ideally, that means they won't jerk around with the system and will get something that is already battle tested and proven, as well as provides true interoperability (or as close as you can come to that dream). Of course, this is NYS, so anything is possible.
The idea that each county builds out its own system sounds great, and in some cases it could and would work. However there are certainly some counties that wanted no part of this statewide network, and have no need to upgrade their current systems. What do you do in those cases? You can't force them to spend tens of millions of dollars on something they don't need. That means the state will have to pick up the slack in those counties anyway. In the end, you may as well just let the state build their network as planned. Less hassle having one agency oversee it, instead of 57 counties plus NYC.
One good thing to come out of this whole mess, aside from the obvious that we won't be stuck with a pos OpenScam system now, is that any subsequent attempts at building this network should draw a lot of attention and scrutiny. Ideally, that means they won't jerk around with the system and will get something that is already battle tested and proven, as well as provides true interoperability (or as close as you can come to that dream). Of course, this is NYS, so anything is possible.
The idea that each county builds out its own system sounds great, and in some cases it could and would work. However there are certainly some counties that wanted no part of this statewide network, and have no need to upgrade their current systems. What do you do in those cases? You can't force them to spend tens of millions of dollars on something they don't need. That means the state will have to pick up the slack in those counties anyway. In the end, you may as well just let the state build their network as planned. Less hassle having one agency oversee it, instead of 57 counties plus NYC.
I was kind of thinking that the smaller counties could regionalize their radio system, this way they can pool money and it wouldn't be too much of a burden on any one county.
I can understand about the counties that have a working system, and don't want to rebuild. The only thing I can think of is do it in phases, with those counties in the last phase. By that time they may need new systems. Doesn't everyone have to be P25 compatable soon anyway?
Also on the flip side of that, there are already counties, like Rockland as well as the NYC DOITT system that are already starting to be built, and it wouldn't make sense for them to rip out their system for a state one in a few years either.
Or, how come NYS needs a new IO system at all. They already have 8-call, I-call, V-call, Nationwide, Statewide etc... why can't they just upgrade what they have?
I can understand about the counties that have a working system, and don't want to rebuild. The only thing I can think of is do it in phases, with those counties in the last phase. By that time they may need new systems. Doesn't everyone have to be P25 compatable soon anyway?
Also on the flip side of that, there are already counties, like Rockland as well as the NYC DOITT system that are already starting to be built, and it wouldn't make sense for them to rip out their system for a state one in a few years either.
Or, how come NYS needs a new IO system at all. They already have 8-call, I-call, V-call, Nationwide, Statewide etc... why can't they just upgrade what they have?
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Tait could bid on it!
They could regionalize, but in the end the cost wouldn't be much different. You'd still need the same amount of towers for coverage, as well as the hardware. You may save some money with the vendor by combining resources, since you're engineering a single system rather than multiple ones, and you may even save some money by not duplicating certain things like towers on county borders. But all in all, I don't think it would make a huge difference, and it would certainly still work out to be a better deal to just do the entire state as one system.
The idea of prioritizing counties based on need was already part of the state's plan. The trouble with relying on the individual counties or group of neighboring to build their own systems as part of a greater system, is that ultimately you'd have no control or oversight over it. If the taxpayer's of that county vote NO, then what? You'll wind up with gaps in coverage, which defeats the purpose of a statewide interoperable system, and I'm sure the SP would not be happy with that. I am not aware of any mandate that says everyone must be P25 compatible by any particular date. If I'm wrong or ignorant to that, I'd love to see some solid info from an authority having jurisdiction like the FCC stating otherwise.
These individual systems, like Westchester and Rockland, have and wouldn't have any bearing on the state's system anyway. The statewide system was really never intended to be used as a primary system for any given jurisdiction. Rockland's system was going to be built regardless of what the state did. In fact, the systems were to be tied together and possibly share tower locations in some instances, in order to allow Rockland's agencies to use the statewide system for mutual aid purposes, without having to buy all new equipment (400 vs 800 systems).
Those mutual aid channels can't provide the same level of service and interoperability as a statewide system could. In part because some locales still operate exclusively on Low Band, while other neighboring locales operate on UHF and have discarded their Low Band equipment. If you don't have equipment in the same band, it really doesn't matter how many of these mutual aid channels you have available. You'd wind up having to buy radios for the sole purpose of "what if" scenarios where you might have to talk to the guy a few counties over. The fact is, that rarely happens, and it's tough to justify the expense of these radios which costs thousands of dollars if they might never be used. If the state, or more directly the SP, want to build a statewide radio network, it's a little easier to justify.
I'm unfamiliar with the extent of their abilities/resources, but EADS has a bid in on a P25 system here. I suspect they may be like other contractors like General Dynamics and Raytheon (who have also bid) and would rely on others' radio equipment to populate the network that they would create.
slypx
Quebec DB Adm
Well ... You're right, they would partenered with a radio manufacturer for it. You know EADS without knowing it ... It's a "small" European company that is the owner of a few other "small" companies like Airbus and Eurocopter !!! They are a major player in the european market with the "Tetra" technology solution.
http://www.eads.com/
In North America, they bought Plant-CML last spring to access the Public Safety market.
http://www.plantcml.com/
ElroyJetson
Getting tired of all the stupidity.
Frankly, I think that statewide radio systems are at best a questionable concept. I don't see that there's really that much of a need for officers to have direct radio communications with other officers hundreds
of miles away.
It would be sufficient, in my opinion, for each region to have its own trunked systems and a few dedicated
conventional channels that are linked to other regions via ROIP links. Such a system can be set up
so that individual regions could be accessed by any common signalling format you can think of,
including PL selection and DTMF.
But as that's relatively low cost, the salesdroids don't like to sell it. They'd rather rape the state for
a few billion dollars that don't really have to be spent to get workable wide-area communications
without going for an overblown, hideously expensive statewide system like Florida's.
Elroy
of miles away.
It would be sufficient, in my opinion, for each region to have its own trunked systems and a few dedicated
conventional channels that are linked to other regions via ROIP links. Such a system can be set up
so that individual regions could be accessed by any common signalling format you can think of,
including PL selection and DTMF.
But as that's relatively low cost, the salesdroids don't like to sell it. They'd rather rape the state for
a few billion dollars that don't really have to be spent to get workable wide-area communications
without going for an overblown, hideously expensive statewide system like Florida's.
Elroy
That wasn't the intent or design of the NY system anyway, so I'm not sure what relevance the point you're trying to make has in this case.
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DaveNF2G
Guest
But that was a major selling point. It was also the basis of several demonstrations in Albany.
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DaveNF2G
Guest
Regionalization is very unlikely in NY. Too much "home rule" and local powermongering.
Even within a single county, unification of services is usually fought against tooth and nail. Albany County, for example, has a half-dozen PSAPs. Nobody is willing to give up control and allow their calls to be answered at any other center.
Even within a single county, unification of services is usually fought against tooth and nail. Albany County, for example, has a half-dozen PSAPs. Nobody is willing to give up control and allow their calls to be answered at any other center.
Ain't no such thing and probably won't be for a long, long time, if ever.
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N_Jay
Guest
Its always a major "demonstration" point because those selling it believe it is more impressive than just calling the next county over.
Hello Sara? I can't reach Andy, do you know where he is?
I wonder how many here know where that is from. :lol: :lol:
Mark01
Member
Sarah, the phone operator in Mayberry ???
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