Newbie request for sub $500USD wideband listening equipment

[belvdr]

Not sure, The R20's on their website as "Discontinued". Might be worth contacting them

Their website is strange now. They still have their retirement notice posted from November 2020. Yet, their events page has 2023 closures listed. Are they still selling or servicing?

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

Contact them, see if you get a response

 

[KevinC_63559]

Not sure, The R20's on their website as "Discontinued". Might be worth contacting them

I did web over to them. Made me wonder if their service department and sales department were the same company. Right now they seem to be pushing Eton Elites and Eton Satellit units - both of which have marginal reviews at best. Ah... their retirement notice explains it. Doesn't sound like they will be doing servicing anymore - just selling out of whatever they have.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

I bet they are just selling out stock as they were pretty adamant about retiring.

 

[KevinC_63559]

"Wideband listening equipment" is a nearly perfect description for SDR (software defined radio).
There are some good receivers like the Airspy HF+ Discovery, Nooelec NESDR SMArt v5 and others.
The rest of the $500 goes for (many) antennas, filters, baluns, ...

Ah... those are all SDR interface units for PCs./Pis. Been wondering about that vs. a stand-alone unit. Friend may buy one of the lower cost ones and try it out as a learning expense. Obviously its an option, but I'm old... I want the tactile big knob to turn... <lol> Sometimes technology advances just lose something along the way...

 

[KevinC_63559]

I think I answered my own questions about what is above the 30Mhz range... found the ARRL chart and that answered that. Guessing there is a difference between what people CAN use and what they DO use. Can anyone fill me in on what frequencies would most likely be used in an emergency situation?

 

[Dirk_SDR]

Obviously its an option, but I'm old...

Well, ... in the 60s ... but OLD???
I'm there too and enjoy radio listening with SDR.

 

[lbashaw]

If you contact your local emergency management office, or state emergency managment office, they can probably provide you with a copy of what is referred to as an "ICS-205", which is a listing of frequencies to be used in emergency/disaster response situations. Your local/area amateur radio club would also be a useful place to get such information.

 

[KevinC_63559]

"ICS-205

Thank you!

 

[majoco]

Not counting "modern" portable radios, I have three 'desktop' HF receivers which I would call a 'communications receiver' - they have the bells and whistles such as switchable filters, noise blankers, attenuators, RF gain controls, preselectors and so on but they are all manual controls - no hidden menus that you have to refer to the handbook when you can't find how you did that last time....and only 100kHz to 30MHz of course.

My No.1 'goto' radio is a JRC NRD515 - built like a tank, cast aluminium front panel, only two large printed circuit boards with real components, dead on frequency, very stable, sensitive and quiet - no internal speaker. No. 2 is a Kenwood R2000, almost as sensitive as the 515, nice front panel and a very good speaker, filters are switched with the modes and available quite cheaply on that auction site - but hopefully 'try before you buy'. No. 3 is an ex- marine Debeg 7313 (aka Skanti R5001) radio which is seemingly devoid of the bells and whistles. Most of those 'extras' are designed to reduce interference from nearby sources and powerful locals - which there aren't many out in the ocean! But it is a 'professional' receiver - a push-pull RF amplifier with filters and not much gain but excellent strong-signal characteristics, very sensitive, only AM, USB and CW, no speaker, nice filters, number pad and twiddle knob for frequency selection.

BUT for a long time I had 'old faithful' Kenwood R1000, just a nice 'plain and simple' but good radio - oh, and the Yaesu FRG7 is the radio that many people cut their teeth on - and it will run on batteries! For my 11th birthday Dad found me a Marconi R1475 (he worked for Marconi's in Chelmsford) which for it's time was a top-notch receiver which hopefully is still working in the UK somewhere - 50 odd years since I last used it!

Whatever you decide, make sure you keep it for long enough to learn all its good points and maybe some bad before you determine its fate!

Just having the radio in front of you is no good if you don't know what your'e looking for. A couple of good sources of info are the EiBi .csv list if you have Excel, (eibispace.de) and Dan's list on groups.io, join the group and log in to 'swskeds', download all the info you could want! Both these sites are free. Dan's list is updated almost daily, can't say that for any printed info!

Above all - have fun!

 

[ArloG]

I have an IC-R8500, R8600. Both new out of box when bought. 1 alignment (R8500) since I owned it and it's nice still.
But 0 support and heaven forbid it ever needs one of the unobtanium parts in it.
A stack of boat anchors. Collins, National, Hallicrafters. Love the smell of tubes in the morning.

Why not try to convince you of getting into SDR? Not one of the chitzy RTL dongles. Something like an SDRPlay.
Sounds like you need to go to the shelf to even use one of the radios you do have.
Super wideband coverage. All of the filters you would ever desire. But you'd need a pc and minimal learning curve.
And stay within your budget. Most important.

 

[KevinC_63559]

"Wideband listening equipment" is a nearly perfect description for SDR (software defined radio).
There are some good receivers like the Airspy HF+ Discovery, Nooelec NESDR SMArt v5 and others.
The rest of the $500 goes for (many) antennas, filters, baluns, ...

OK - spent the last day or so going down the SDR rabbit hole.

Been looking for dual port units to avoid having to have an antenna switch (one for < 30MHz, one for > 30MHz). I know I could buy an Antenna switch, but that is yet another box to fail (Did I say that out loud?).

Specifically when I looked at the Airspy HF+ the older model has dual antenna ports, the newer faster-better-cheaper Discover unit only has a single antenna port. Am I right in presuming I'd need to add a switch for (at least) 2 antennas? Not a killer issue - just hate surprises. Apparently has 18 bit converters. $169 List for the Discover, $199 for the older Dual Port

The Nooelect NESDR Smart v5 has a broader range (100 kHz to 1.75GHz vs. 0.5kHs to 31MHz for the Discovery), but a single antenna port like the Discovery so presumably the same switch need. Kits are cheap at $115 and come up with the Ham It Up Upconverter - which for the uneducated like me is confusing. Why do I need an upconverter???

Also stumbled across the RTL-SDR Blog V3 (and its clones) - very inexpensive ($43 kit), but concerned about it only going to 24MHz in direct sampling mode then needing to be tweaked (setting changed) to go higher. Guessing that would be inconvenient.

Finally looked at the RSPDuo - 3 antenna inputs - priced around $300, 1kHz - 2GHz range. 14 bit converters.

Thoughts?

Reminder: $500 budget

 

[KevinC_63559]

I have an IC-R8500, R8600. Both new out of box when bought. 1 alignment (R8500) since I owned it and it's nice still.
But 0 support and heaven forbid it ever needs one of the unobtanium parts in it.
A stack of boat anchors. Collins, National, Hallicrafters. Love the smell of tubes in the morning.

Why not try to convince you of getting into SDR? Not one of the chitzy RTL dongles. Something like an SDRPlay.
Sounds like you need to go to the shelf to even use one of the radios you do have.
Super wideband coverage. All of the filters you would ever desire. But you'd need a pc and minimal learning curve.
And stay within your budget. Most important.

Exactly what I've been spooling up on. (How's that for revealing my age?) See my previous post and thanks for another item to consider! (seriously! - I don't know what I don't know..)

Shelf is reachable from my chair, and with an SDR of modest size, I could put it under one of my 3 monitors. Lots of unused space there. e.g. Very close to the PC.

Oh, to be clear - don't own ANY radios now, other than those installed in our vehicles. Thus the "Newbie request" in the title (and my stupid questions).

Off to research SDRPlay, and just scratched RTL off the list. Thanks again.

 

[KevinC_63559]

Why not try to convince you of getting into SDR? Not one of the chitzy RTL dongles. Something like an SDRPlay.
Sounds like you need to go to the shelf to even use one of the radios you do have.
Super wideband coverage. All of the filters you would ever desire. But you'd need a pc and minimal learning curve.
And stay within your budget. Most important.

Any other similar units to the SDRPlay RSPdx that I should consider? If not, I think we have a winner... (unless, of course, somebody tells me otherwise!)

I can't see needing dual capability, except perhaps for the diversity tuning feature offered on the RSPDuo??? Impressions on my likelihood of using that feature?

 

[KevinC_63559]

If you contact your local emergency management office, or state emergency managment office, they can probably provide you with a copy of what is referred to as an "ICS-205", which is a listing of frequencies to be used in emergency/disaster response situations. Your local/area amateur radio club would also be a useful place to get such information.

For what it worth, the State of Missouri, USA uses frequencies between 1 and 10 MHz.

 

[ArloG]

OK - spent the last day or so going down the SDR rabbit hole.

Been looking for dual port units to avoid having to have an antenna switch (one for < 30MHz, one for > 30MHz). I know I could buy an Antenna switch, but that is yet another box to fail (Did I say that out loud?).

Specifically when I looked at the Airspy HF+ the older model has dual antenna ports, the newer faster-better-cheaper Discover unit only has a single antenna port. Am I right in presuming I'd need to add a switch for (at least) 2 antennas? Not a killer issue - just hate surprises. Apparently has 18 bit converters. $169 List for the Discover, $199 for the older Dual Port

The Nooelect NESDR Smart v5 has a broader range (100 kHz to 1.75GHz vs. 0.5kHs to 31MHz for the Discovery), but a single antenna port like the Discovery so presumably the same switch need. Kits are cheap at $115 and come up with the Ham It Up Upconverter - which for the uneducated like me is confusing. Why do I need an upconverter???

Also stumbled across the RTL-SDR Blog V3 (and its clones) - very inexpensive ($43 kit), but concerned about it only going to 24MHz in direct sampling mode then needing to be tweaked (setting changed) to go higher. Guessing that would be inconvenient.

Finally looked at the RSPDuo - 3 antenna inputs - priced around $300, 1kHz - 2GHz range. 14 bit converters.

Thoughts?

Reminder: $500 budget

Spark! Love it.
First to answer something. Why an upconverter?
Quote:
Upconverters enable SDRs that cannot tune in the HF bands to receive HF by shifting the low HF frequencies "up" into a range receivable by most VHF/UHF capable SDRs.

Take for example one the SDR's that don't dip down into VLF/HF band. The Airspy Mini.
24 - 1800 MHz. Nothing can be received below 24 MHz. Right.
An upconverter receives those lower frequencies and shifts them up into a frequency that the Mini can receive.
No worries though. No calculators needed to determine the actual frequency you're receiving . SDR software should allow you to put in the upconverter values and display a true frequency.
And. A downconverter would do the same.
But once inline with the radio, they're there (correct me please). I think you need to remove them to restore regular SDR function.
Good news. If the radio can receive 1 kHz-2 gHz continuous. No issues. Upconverter not needed.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not endorsing the SDRPlay radios. It's just one that I know. My next giant step was the IC-R8600. It's an SDR too in an Armani suit!
External antenna switch solved. The Duo has 3 ports. As does the RSPDx.
Something to consider. If you want to ever add a preamplifier for weak signals. Bias-T is a way for the radio to send 4.7 VDC over the coax to an amp. at the antenna. They have it.
Heck. I use a Nooelec LANA low noise amplifier at my RSP2. Not even at the antenna.

I cannot help you make a choice. But reading a few reviews of the radios you're interested in might help. There are tons out there now.
Besides the radio. Software is a big key also. SDR# (SDR Sharp) is big on the RTL, Airspy type radios. Not so sure if later versions support the SDRPlay radios but you may want to take that into consideration.
If scanning and storing frequencies, dabbling in satellite reception, decoding more modern public service frequencies besides plain voice. SDR# has it. I hope you're not a Macintosh/iPad guy. I guess you have to pay for software that works on them. Windows and Linux is another wide-open animal.
Oh. If you do select an SDR radio. Be sure to grab the correct SMA to <your coax termination> adapters also. You will need them.
Get back. Hope some of this helps.

 

[KevinC_63559]

Spark! Love it.
First to answer something. Why an upconverter?
Quote:
Upconverters enable SDRs that cannot tune in the HF bands to receive HF by shifting the low HF frequencies "up" into a range receivable by most VHF/UHF capable SDRs.

Take for example one the SDR's that don't dip down into VLF/HF band. The Airspy Mini.
24 - 1800 MHz. Nothing can be received below 24 MHz. Right.
An upconverter receives those lower frequencies and shifts them up into a frequency that the Mini can receive.
No worries though. No calculators needed to determine the actual frequency you're receiving . SDR software should allow you to put in the upconverter values and display a true frequency.
And. A downconverter would do the same.
But once inline with the radio, they're there (correct me please). I think you need to remove them to restore regular SDR function.
Good news. If the radio can receive 1 kHz-2 gHz continuous. No issues. Upconverter not needed.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not endorsing the SDRPlay radios. It's just one that I know. My next giant step was the IC-R8600. It's an SDR too in an Armani suit!
External antenna switch solved. The Duo has 3 ports. As does the RSPDx.
Something to consider. If you want to ever add a preamplifier for weak signals. Bias-T is a way for the radio to send 4.7 VDC over the coax to an amp. at the antenna. They have it.
Heck. I use a Nooelec LANA low noise amplifier at my RSP2. Not even at the antenna.

I cannot help you make a choice. But reading a few reviews of the radios you're interested in might help. There are tons out there now.
Besides the radio. Software is a big key also. SDR# (SDR Sharp) is big on the RTL, Airspy type radios. Not so sure if later versions support the SDRPlay radios but you may want to take that into consideration.
If scanning and storing frequencies, dabbling in satellite reception, decoding more modern public service frequencies besides plain voice. SDR# has it. I hope you're not a Macintosh/iPad guy. I guess you have to pay for software that works on them. Windows and Linux is another wide-open animal.
Oh. If you do select an SDR radio. Be sure to grab the correct SMA to <your coax termination> adapters also. You will need them.
Get back. Hope some of this helps.

Appreciate it all! We have settled into an SDRPlay nitch, just not sure if we will go with the dx or the duo model. Just checked maps.google.com and I'm about 20 miles from the nearest FM station, but within their service area. Still, at that distance, hopefully FM won't overwhelm any pre-amps.

The hard part now is picking our starter antenna. Kind of centered on MLA 30+ but looking around in space, like perhaps a K-180WLA? Too uneducated to know what else it out there, shy the top end units north of $200. Also don't know if I trust the frequency range claims on these cheap units. Feels like there should be something between $40 and $300 in loop antennas...

Rather fond of the idea of powering the preamp off the built-in 4.7V Bias-T offered on all current models of SDRPlay units. Can anyhow help with a few suggestions? The greater the bandwidth the better I suppose, if they work well, which is why I was looking at the K-180WLA. Perhaps something in the $150'ish range that is clearly superior to these sub-$80 units?

 

[ArloG]

Appreciate it all! We have settled into an SDRPlay nitch, just not sure if we will go with the dx or the duo model. Just checked maps.google.com and I'm about 20 miles from the nearest FM station, but within their service area. Still, at that distance, hopefully FM won't overwhelm any pre-amps.

The hard part now is picking our starter antenna. Kind of centered on MLA 30+ but looking around in space, like perhaps a K-180WLA? Too uneducated to know what else it out there, shy the top end units north of $200. Also don't know if I trust the frequency range claims on these cheap units. Feels like there should be something between $40 and $300 in loop antennas...

Rather fond of the idea of powering the preamp off the built-in 4.7V Bias-T offered on all current models of SDRPlay units. Can anyhow help with a few suggestions? The greater the bandwidth the better I suppose, if they work well, which is why I was looking at the K-180WLA. Perhaps something in the $150'ish range that is clearly superior to these sub-$80 units?

Looks like you've already expanded your interest. Probably no worries with broadcast FM overloads because the duo and dx both have selectable notch filters and at >30 dB attenuation. Not so sure about what happens at the preamp though. I live in the boonies.

Others please chime in. The MLA 30+ does have good reviews. And you can power it with your coax with the bias-t.
Not sure at all on the K-180. Youtube it? You have several antenna ports. I do use a Diamond discone which is wideband but omnidirectional.
Spend what you can afford but trust reviews and personal experience feedback. Except for the Diamond, I've made all of my antennas.

Chances are you will only need (if you ever do) a mast mounted preamp for above 30 MHz. But the loops have their own amps built in. I'm thinking if you do more VHF monitoring, probably a better suited suited antenna for that. One size does not fit all. There are specific LNA's with internal filtering. Look at Nooelec's lineup. Me? I just use the LANA. Seems to do very good way up into L Band where I use a patch antenna for Inmarsat. There are dedicated LNA's for that. I don't have any.

The duo or dx? Well everyone says the dx is nice for performance where you'd seek out signals. The duo, advantages for using it like 2 separate radios in one box. Don't let the small size fool you. Sure there are better ones and not so much ones. When I use my rsp2, it does what I need it to.

 

[KevinC_63559]

Looks like you've already expanded your interest. Probably no worries with broadcast FM overloads because the duo and dx both have selectable notch filters and at >30 dB attenuation. Not so sure about what happens at the preamp though. I live in the boonies.

Honestly, it feels like we narrowed it down a bit. Using a pre-amp amplifier means we get to do away with an antenna tuner - that alone is huge. No longer looking at dozens of options, just two. Feeling pretty good!

Others please chime in. The MLA 30+ does have good reviews. And you can power it with your coax with the bias-t.
Not sure at all on the K-180. Youtube it? You have several antenna ports. I do use a Diamond discone which is wideband but omnidirectional.
Spend what you can afford but trust reviews and personal experience feedback. Except for the Diamond, I've made all of my antennas.

Something like a Diamond D3000N is affordable, but was thinking of that when I was ready to jump out of SW - the specs claim a minimum frequency of 25MHtz. Are there others that go down to, say 25kHz through 1.3GHtz or so.

Chances are you will only need (if you ever do) a mast mounted preamp for above 30 MHz. But the loops have their own amps built in. I'm thinking if you do more VHF monitoring, probably a better suited suited antenna for that. One size does not fit all. There are specific LNA's with internal filtering. Look at Nooelec's lineup. Me? I just use the LANA. Seems to do very good way up into L Band where I use a patch antenna for Inmarsat. There are dedicated LNA's for that. I don't have any.

The duo or dx? Well everyone says the dx is nice for performance where you'd seek out signals. The duo, advantages for using it like 2 separate radios in one box. Don't let the small size fool you. Sure there are better ones and not so much ones. When I use my rsp2, it does what I need it to.

The attraction of the Duo is using two antennas for what I call "Binocular vision" - two sensors tuned to the same subject and comparisons made to reduce noise - much like the brain does with two eyes. They have a different term for it, which is escaping me, likely due to a bit of Jack Daniels at this hour...

Really do appreciate the feedback.

 

[ArloG]

Honestly, it feels like we narrowed it down a bit. Using a pre-amp amplifier means we get to do away with an antenna tuner - that alone is huge. No longer looking at dozens of options, just two. Feeling pretty good!



Something like a Diamond D3000N is affordable, but was thinking of that when I was ready to jump out of SW - the specs claim a minimum frequency of 25MHtz. Are there others that go down to, say 25kHz through 1.3GHtz or so.

25 kHz, 11991.7 meters & 1.3 GHz, 0.23 meters. Pretty big span to ask of one antenna. kHz to several megaherts yes. Too much to dive into here and covered better elsewhere. A wire antenna, etc. is best for lower freqs., and VHF, UHF specific antennas for those freqs. Ever see a cop car with 37 antennas on the trunk lid? Some longer and some just a stub. There's a reason. Or a piano with its range of long to short string sets.
Preelectors still have a place. The rsp's should have that pretty much handled in the box.

Just remember. Below, you hint that you want to use only one antenna. Multiple ports will let you use one for the receivers inherent sensitivity and another for a bias-t preamp. If you remove power (bias-t off) from the lna then you get very little signal. The lna does not switch to bypass its circuitry to straight-through to the antenna. It needs to be on all the time when you use that antenna port. If the port were turned on hooked to a loop antenna directly, you would short out the bias-t circuit. And that wouldn't be a good thing.

The attraction of the Duo is using two antennas for what I call "Binocular vision" - two sensors tuned to the same subject and comparisons made to reduce noise - much like the brain does with two eyes. They have a different term for it, which is escaping me, likely due to a bit of Jack Daniels at this hour...

Diversity reception. That's the term. Was big on car stereos at one time. FM frequency strength could change in just a few feet of driving. Building reflections or blockage, whatever. Diversity selected the better signal and switched to that antenna. Not much personal experience with it. For HF, It could be a big advantage with 2 identical antenna separated by a distance during heavy fade periods.

Really do appreciate the feedback.