NJICS in Atlantic City and Brigantine

[HavenBTS]

I have never been able to receive a control channel for NJICS neither in Atlantic City or Brigantine. It doesn't matter what scanner I use or what location I am at in both AC and Brigantine. Why is this since according to what I see, there is an Atlantic City site that is part of the Hammonton simulcast?

Just curious. I am sure it is something that I am doing wrong.

 

[dave3825]

What kind of antenna are you using? That is odd as with band openings, I have received the Hammonton simulcast site from Long Island.

Site: 1.5 NAC=395 ; Hammonton Simulcast

Neighbor: BEE00.39A-1.3 ; Bordentown Simulcast
Neighbor: BEE00.39A-1.4 ; Berlin Simulcast
Neighbor: BEE00.39A-1.9
Neighbor: BEE00.39A-1.18 ; Millville

Channel 1-1274: 769.96875 SCC VOICE
Channel 1-1350: 770.44375 SCC
Channel 1-1926: 774.04375 SCC
Channel 1-2010: 774.56875 CC

 

[HavenBTS]

I am on the top floor of a three story building using a Whistler WS1095 with a Remtronix 800 antenna.

As I have stated previously, I can't receive a control channel no matter what scanner or antenna I use both in AC and in Brigantine.

 

[GTR8000]

Here is a map of all current standalone sites (black circles) and simulcast subsites for the system.

https://wiki.radioreference.com/images/f/f1/NJICS_Site_Map.jpg

The Atlantic City subsite should be on top of the Enclave Condos, co-located with the 800 MHz South Simulcast subsite.

Are you able to pick up a carrier on 774.56875 with the scanner in analog search mode?

 

[HavenBTS]

Here is a map of all current standalone sites (black circles) and simulcast subsites for the system.

https://wiki.radioreference.com/images/f/f1/NJICS_Site_Map.jpg

The Atlantic City subsite should be on top of the Enclave Condos, co-located with the 800 MHz South Simulcast subsite.

Are you able to pick up a carrier on 774.56875 with the scanner in analog search mode?

Barely. There should be no problem since I am 38 blocks from the site. I have just tested this again on both a Whistler WS1088 and a WS1095. No luck.

The 800 Mhz South Simulcast subsite of the NJSP I have no problem receiving at all.

Are the NJICS sites low power or maybe low downtilt?

 

[GTR8000]

General speaking, they do try to exercise tighter control of the 700 RF vs the 800 RF, which is basically big booming omnis. I don't know the exact configuration of the 700 MHz site in AC, but it would seem somewhat strange for them to restrict the RF that much, especially since it's part of a simulcast that has to cover a pretty decent area, and with the next closest subsite in Port Republic.

Out of curiosity, are you able to receive any other NJICS site or simulcast cell? Anything from the Cape May cell? What about the 800 MHz IntelliRepeater in AC, assuming that's still active (believe it's located on the pier)?

 

[HavenBTS]

I literally have no problem receiving and monitoring any trunked system that I am in range of a control channel, except for NJICS.

 

[GTR8000]

That's pretty bizarre. The Remtronix antenna is pretty decent and should work just fine on 769-775, and I'm sure that you've already tried other antennas and scanners with the same results. Perhaps a trip down to the condos is in order to a) verify that the site is actually there and b) to see what your RSSI is standing right in front of it.

The only other thing I can think of is that you happen to be very close to a 700 MHz LTE site, and it's de-sensing the scanner's receiver, making it tough to receive anything between 769-775.

 

[HavenBTS]

That's pretty bizarre. The Remtronix antenna is pretty decent and should work just fine on 769-775, and I'm sure that you've already tried other antennas and scanners with the same results. Perhaps a trip down to the condos is in order to a) verify that the site is actually there and b) to see what your RSSI is standing right in front of it.

The only other thing I can think of is that you happen to be very close to a 700 MHz LTE site, and it's de-sensing the scanner's receiver, making it tough to receive anything between 769-775.

Actually, now that you have brought it up, I am very close to a T-Mobile tower. I remember commercials saying that they use 600 MHZ low band. Do you think that that could be the culprit?

 

[HavenBTS]

I just confirmed a T-Mobile 729-745 MHZ site on the roof of the school 1 block from my apartment. I think I found the answer.

Thank you GTR8000!!!!

 

[GTR8000]

It could well be, along with the other major carriers in the area that utilize 600/700 spectrum.

• T-Mobile uses spectrum in both Band 71 (617 - 652 MHz down/663 - 698 MHz up) and Band 12 (728-746 MHz down/698-710 MHz up).
  
  
• AT&T has FirstNet on Band 14 (758-768 MHz down/788-798 MHz up), which butts right up against the 700 MHz public safety narrowband segment 769-775. It's probably a safe bet that there are Band 14 FirstNet sites in Atlantic City. They also share Band 12 with T-Mobile, as well as having coverage on Band 17 (734-746 MHz down/704-716 MHz up).
  
  
• Verizon makes very heavy use of Band 13 (746-756 MHz down/777-787 MHz up) in most areas.

Suffice it to say, the 700 band is pretty heavily saturated these days between LTE/FirstNet, and public safety LMR.

GRE/Whistler scanners have been notorious for having sub-par front ends that tend to get overwhelmed pretty easily by nearby strong signals. While some have praised this over the years as being "increased sensitivity", the problem is that in dense areas with a ton of RF, signals you actually want to hear get drowned out in the noise.

Do you have a Uniden scanner or any other receiver like an RTL dongle you can check the NJICS out with, to compare with the Whistler?

 

[HavenBTS]

It could well be, along with the other major carriers in the area that utilize 600/700 spectrum.

• T-Mobile uses spectrum in both Band 71 (617 - 652 MHz down/663 - 698 MHz up) and Band 12 (728-746 MHz down/698-710 MHz up).
  
  
• AT&T has FirstNet on Band 14 (758-768 MHz down/788-798 MHz up), which butts right up against the 700 MHz public safety narrowband segment 769-775. It's probably a safe bet that there are Band 14 FirstNet sites in Atlantic City. They also share Band 12 with T-Mobile, as well as having coverage on Band 17 (734-746 MHz down/704-716 MHz up).
  
  
• Verizon makes very heavy use of Band 13 (746-756 MHz down/777-787 MHz up) in most areas.

Suffice it to say, the 700 band is pretty heavily saturated these days between LTE/FirstNet, and public safety LMR.

GRE/Whistler scanners have been notorious for having sub-par front ends that tend to get overwhelmed pretty easily by nearby strong signals. While some have praised this over the years as being "increased sensitivity", the problem is that in dense areas with a ton of RF, signals you actually want to hear get drowned out in the noise.

Do you have a Uniden scanner or any other receiver like an RTL dongle you can check the NJICS out with, to compare with the Whistler?

I will try a Uniden. Thank you.

 

[GTR8000]

Any luck?

 

[bailly2]

Can you receive the control channel in conventional mode, maybe searching 769-775? If so its lsm simulcast distortion. Use a stock indoor antenna and surround that antenna in aluminum foil around a cardboard box except on one side a move the open side toward the tower you want to receive..

The hammontown site has 3 towers transmitting the same traffic at the same time at Hammonton, Atlantic City, Port Republic. You want to block out 2 of those with metal. I could be wrong, maybe it is the cell phone network. Even then the metal enclosure should help block that out. Point it towards one of those other towers away from the firstnet or tmobile

 

[couchm7]

What kind of antenna are you using? That is odd as with band openings, I have received the Hammonton simulcast site from Long Island.

Site: 1.5 NAC=395 ; Hammonton Simulcast

Neighbor: BEE00.39A-1.3 ; Bordentown Simulcast
Neighbor: BEE00.39A-1.4 ; Berlin Simulcast
Neighbor: BEE00.39A-1.9
Neighbor: BEE00.39A-1.18 ; Millville

Channel 1-1274: 769.96875 SCC VOICE
Channel 1-1350: 770.44375 SCC
Channel 1-1926: 774.04375 SCC
Channel 1-2010: 774.56875 CC

Dave can you help me with how to do this I can only receive Berlin Simulcast how can I hit other sites?

 

[HavenBTS]

I have asked this before and I know that it has been discussed in other threads, but I have never gotten an answer that I can accept.

Are the sites very low powered? Do the antennas point to the ground? Why can't I lock onto a site? I am in Atlantic City so I should be able to get the Hammonton simulcast which has a site in the city. This problem is not limited to my current location. I have hardly ever been able to lock onto a site from locations in Atlantic, Camden and Gloucester Counties. It was suggested that nearby cellular sites could be my issue here in AC but what about everywhere else? Also these cell sites do not interfere with the NJSP system. Also, correct me if I am wrong but isn't the NJSP South Simulcast and the NJICS Hammonton Simulcast sites on the roof of the same building in AC?

Thank you for any assistance.

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

I have hardly ever been able to lock onto a site from locations in Atlantic, Camden and Gloucester Counties.

My guess is you aren't using a Uniden SDS100 or 200 to receive. Have a read about simulcast distortion, it's one of the most discussed issues on these forums and can really cause issues on a non-SDS series scanner. On my many trips to Jersey I've had limited success with my x36HPs but my SDS100 never misses a beat on the NJICS

 

[policefreak]

I have asked this before and I know that it has been discussed in other threads, but I have never gotten an answer that I can accept.

Are the sites very low powered? Do the antennas point to the ground? Why can't I lock onto a site? I am in Atlantic City so I should be able to get the Hammonton simulcast which has a site in the city. This problem is not limited to my current location. I have hardly ever been able to lock onto a site from locations in Atlantic, Camden and Gloucester Counties. It was suggested that nearby cellular sites could be my issue here in AC but what about everywhere else? Also these cell sites do not interfere with the NJSP system. Also, correct me if I am wrong but isn't the NJSP South Simulcast and the NJICS Hammonton Simulcast sites on the roof of the same building in AC?

Thank you for any assistance.

As stated above it really depends on what device you're using to receive. For example Ive locked onto the Hammonton site using my Unication G5 and a little antenna modification all the way from NE Philadelphia. Indoors i hear it just fine from Berlin. On my SDS100 it has been a bit more inconsistent. And using the 436 or a TRX/PSR scanner all bets are off. What are you using to hear it?

 

[HavenBTS]

My guess is you aren't using a Uniden SDS100 or 200 to receive. Have a read about simulcast distortion, it's one of the most discussed issues on these forums and can really cause issues on a non-SDS series scanner. On my many trips to Jersey I've had limited success with my x36HPs but my SDS100 never misses a beat on the NJICS

I am not locking onto a site. I can't experience simulcast distortion because I lock on to nothing. I did forget to mention that this problem also occurs using different antennas and different scanners.

 

[HavenBTS]

As stated above it really depends on what device you're using to receive. For example Ive locked onto the Hammonton site using my Unication G5 and a little antenna modification all the way from NE Philadelphia. Indoors i hear it just fine from Berlin. On my SDS100 it has been a bit more inconsistent. And using the 436 or a TRX/PSR scanner all bets are off. What are you using to hear it?

Whistlers and Unidens. It really doesn't matter. NJICS hates me.