No MTO reception

[mikewazowski]

That's really strange. I'm over in Clearview and have no problem hearing the MTO on my SDS100, SDS200 and BCD536HP's. I'll try and pay attention to what tower I'm receiving as I usually scan Penetang and Edgar.

 

[scifidad007]

Mike, sorry I have to ask. MTO Analog or P25-X2-TDMA?
I do get the analog "next available tow" calls.

If the latter, can you please share your .hpe file for LMRN?
I look forward to hearing from you.

 

[mikewazowski]

Neither.

MTO is P25 and LMRN should be set as a P25 Trunk system. P25 X2-TDMA is an older Motorola proprietary system which doesn't exist anymore. It might work but the correct system type is P25 Trunk.

 

[mikewazowski]

So..... there's a bug in the SDS series of scanners (and possibly the BCDx36HP's) when it comes to manually entering in bandplans as they don't take into account that the amount of channels are doubled on a TDMA bandplan slot.

For example, the Penetang site does not broadcast a bandplan so it must be entered in manually. When entered in exactly as DSDPlus shows it (or another site from LMRN that is broadcasting a bandplan) it calculates frequencies incorrectly. The Penetang site is showing a voice channel of 149.6025MHz. If you subtract off the base frequency of 136.005MHz and divide by the channel spacing of 7.5KHz, you get a slot number of 1,813. Divide that by 2 and you end up with a channel number of 906.5. Round that down to 906 since each channel has two slots.

If you do the correct math of 136.005MHz + .0075*906, you end up with a frequency of 142.800MHz which is a valid voice channel for Penetang.

So if you happen to live by a site that isn't transmitting a bandplan, you're SOL until Uniden fixes the issue.

If you're in Central Ontario, you'll want to listen to the Edgar site as it's transmitting a bandplan.

 

[scifidad007]

GTK. I did hear Edgar on the drive home on the UBCD3600, once or twice. Listening on the SDS200 using P25 Trunk from home and NADA.

 

[ve3tej]

Mike, you are correct.

I have spent many hours trying to get it to work. If I use DSDPlus and my site is not broadcasting the band plan, my scanner will not work. As soon as they broadcast the band plan I have no problem.

Most people would have no way to check this out unless they are monitoring the sites control channel with software.

 

[mikewazowski]

GTK. I did hear Edgar on the drive home on the UBCD3600, once or twice. Listening on the SDS200 using P25 Trunk from home and NADA.

That's good news. I can try and check Primrose later to see if it's broadcasting a bandplan but for now, I'd just scan the Edgar site.

 

[mikewazowski]

Primrose does not send the bandplan either.

I've also confirmed that the same bug affects the BCD536HP as well.

 

[scifidad007]

So here is my confusion. If the MTO towers are not sending a band plan and the radio won't read a band plan when manually entered but... I do receive it on Metrolinx. They must be sending the band plan, as it is not manually entered in my radios x3 and the radios decode it. What am I missing here in how the radio decides what it will decode?

 

[gary123]

The actual radios process the "go to channel" (LCN in DMR terms) EI 740 for 141.555
Primrose site:
Channel 4-740: 141.555 DATA
Channel 1-1620: 142.08-1 VOICE
Channel 1-1621: 142.08-2 VOICE
Channel 1-1716: 142.44-1 VOICE
Channel 1-1717: 142.44-2 VOICE
Channel 0-896: 142.725 CC SCC
Channel 0-926: 142.95 CC SCC
Channel 1-1896: 143.115-1 VOICE
Channel 1-1897: 143.115-2 VOICE
Channel 1-1916: 143.19-1 VOICE
Channel 1-1917: 143.19-2 VOICE

I checked the scanners and they do not have an entry for the LCN in P25P1 or P25p2. has anyone tried entering in all the site frequencies? and see if it tracks then?

 

[Enjoi19]

What am I missing here in how the radio decides what it will decode?

This is due to the system itself and not something you or the radios done wrong. This seems to be an extremely oddball case where sites are intermittently (or never, or always) transmitting the band plan. It’s unexpected and not really expected behaviour from what I’ve experienced

 

[scifidad007]

This is due to the system itself and not something you or the radios done wrong. This seems to be an extremely oddball case where sites are intermittently (or never, or always) transmitting the band plan. It’s unexpected and not really expected behaviour from what I’ve experienced

Thank you for that. At first I was about to troubleshoot the antenna and go from there but as soon as I was hearing the other P25 agencies et al I figured it was isolated.

Here's the million dollar question, is it intentional given their move to encryption? Bonus million...Any one at MTO that can be contacted?

 

[Enjoi19]

Here's the million dollar question, is it intentional given their move to encryption? Bonus million...Any one at MTO that can be contacted?

I don’t think so - MTO is unencrypted and the control channel itself isn’t encrypted in any way. I’d be more inclined to just say strange configuration.

 

[mikewazowski]

It could be just the way the system is designed. Motorola radios have a spot to enter the bandplan in manually so they don't need to receive the bandplan over the air.

There was a time when Metrolinx decided not to send a bandplan out over the air. Orange County in Florida had an issue for a while where they weren't transmitting a bandplan.

Like a Motorola radio, we should be able to enter in a bandplan in our scanners but that feature is broken. I've reached out to Jason who's been fielding technical issues for Uniden and he's passed the information onto Uniden Japan.

For now, there's nothing we can do but wait and hope Uniden comes out with a fix.

 

[gary123]

If we ever need to figure the LMRN LCN values here is a small app I made to calculate them. Just enter the frequency and click calculate LCN. It is set to allow 5 decimal points because the bandplan allows for it.

 

[EJB]

I entered the system manually, as you mentioned. I did everything but enter the band plan? Should I populate these values or see if they will auto populate?

Here is a picture of the band plan. Also sent a picture of system settings
View attachment 193467View attachment 193468View attachment 193470

Andy: maybe the Brantford tower doesn't transmit the band plan and there isn't anything you can do about it. I can't monitor the Brantford tower here.

The only change I'd make to your software, I was told to use 5 seconds for the hold time.

Your not missing much, it's MTO plows . . . zzzzzzz

 

[gary123]

I did some DSD monitoring last night. Sites 4(Listowel),18(Byron), 21(Woodstock),33(Tavistock) and 45(Monro) all are transmitting the band plan.

 

[ve3tej]

But last winter London was not, and all the towers around me were. It's hit and miss when it's there.

 

[gary123]

Makes me wonder if the APX radios default to a "preset" band plan if one is not being transmitted.

I think Uniden may have to add the user definable band plan and LCN option to the firmware.

 

[Enjoi19]

Makes me wonder if the APX radios default to a "preset" band plan if one is not being transmitted.

You program the radio with the band plan as part of the trunked system, it doesn’t need to receive it. Programming it on the radio side is a must or it won’t be functional.