Not happy with SKYWARN at ALL!

[rdale]

Every year at Spotter training I get told the same thing. Don't look for any "Activation" from NWS. They don't do it.

Never speak too generic Some offices do. And every office puts it in their daily Hazardous Weather Outlook:

.SPOTTER INFORMATION STATEMENT...

SPOTTER ACTIVATION MAY BE NEEDED THIS AFTERNOON AND EVENING.

.SPOTTER INFORMATION STATEMENT...

SPOTTER ACTIVATION WILL NOT BE NEEDED.

 

[newsphotog]

Never speak too generic Some offices do. And every office puts it in their daily Hazardous Weather Outlook:

.SPOTTER INFORMATION STATEMENT...

SPOTTER ACTIVATION MAY BE NEEDED THIS AFTERNOON AND EVENING.

.SPOTTER INFORMATION STATEMENT...

SPOTTER ACTIVATION WILL NOT BE NEEDED.

Nowhere does it specify who is activating spotters.

I don't know anyone who has been notified by the NWS saying "hey, you've been activated." From EMA, sure, EMA can activate their own spotters but that's not the issue at hand. I never hear NWS saying "we activated spotters." Spotter activation is all self-activation. NWS does not direct citizen spotters what to do.

 

[rdale]

You say semantics, I say tomato.

 

[UNIT105]

"What's wrong with external antennas on your vehicle?"

This is, THIS is a whacker. Note the Skyporn placard on the left rear door, this is precisely what we're talking about.

........... What's Wrong with external antennas on your vehicle..?? Why don't you take a few steps back man and look at your car.... You rip your passenger seat out to put in all that 1980's Radio Shack Gear , and you got so many antennas looks like a porcupine.... I hate to say this man but your clearly a good example of what a whacker truly is.... There are professional I mean professional Storm Chasers out in this country who make a living off tracking and filming storms.... Look at their vehicles compared to yours.... You clearly have a few screws loose in your head as if you have to prove something to someone.... Wonder what your wife (if you have one) thinks of this ridiculous looking ride.... All I have to say is you need to get a life Mr. "Vortex Tracker" Get with the program and take that ridiculous pic of your OLDSMOBILE off the website, Unless you like being called a whacker....!!!!!! Lol

 

[UNIT105]

to KB7MIB- I have a Yaesu FT-60R HT an I have no trouble at all transmitting from inside my vehicle to the Skywarn Repeater which is easily over 14 miles away.... I feel that's all I need, I never did at any time say there was anything wrong with external antennas.... I was just commenting on this oldsmobile an the ridiculous amount of antennas and lights on this car.... I just honestly think that people who have vehicles like this need their heads examined.... There really is no need for all those flashy stickers ,lights,and antennas.... Like I said I have one HT and a 150 channel handheld scanner with my surrounding towns police,and fire frequencies in it as well as emergency management and I will only talk on my HT when there is a Severe Weather Event that meets the NWS Criteria to report it in and then most of the time like 80% of the time I will use my cell phone to call it in directly to NWS service....

 

[PJH]

Well I think there is a valid point there. Who is really activating whose resources, and whose resonsible?

 

[rdale]

Most Skywarn groups activate automatically when a warning is issued by NWS. So "NWS is activating" would be a valid statement, even though the office isn't calling NCS and saying "activate."

Good Skywarn groups activate when a watch is issued. Again, this comes from the NWS.

I don't understand the last part of your question - who's responsible for what? The local Skywarn group is responsible for monitoring the weather and activating when conditions (warning or storm) warrant.

 

[burner50]

So "NWS is activating" would be a valid statement

No, it still isn't a valid statement. Nobody gets notified from the NWS to go look at the sky, and NWS doesnt control anything that a spotter does. Its not semantics, it was simply an incorrect statement.

 

[rdale]

Again - I think you are playing the semantics game. The NWS calls out a crew to come to the office. In my mind, since they initiate a message that tells people to start doing Skywarn, they are activating Skywarn.

Note - "activate" and "control" are two different words. I didn't say anything about telling anyone to look at the sky or controlling their actions. They can (and do) activate Skywarn. They are not the only way Skywarn gets activated, which goes back to my very first post a year ago

 

[PJH]

I am with Burner on this one, and in todays public safety world (including this type of stuff in the context, keeping with ICS/NIMS and best practices) I do think that there need to be a more clear understanding when NWS Skywarn spotters could be notified proactively, or what critera that the volunteer spotters shoud deploy themselves outside of EMA (state/county/local), fire department or what-have-you.

The local NWS office here out in the western plains has only provided this statement on a handout from the recent spotter training class:

PREPARATION BEFORE SPOTTING

- A pro-active approach to spotting before storms enter a county is vitial to the warning process.

- Stay informed before warnings are issued for your county utilizing radar data and National Weather Service (NWS) Products.

- Don't wait for a heads up call from the NWS. Time will not always permit this ahead of time

I think what some groups or people are looking for is something along the lines of pager/text/email notification other than listening to a weather radio all day long, or to know that "watch = deploy" or "nearby warning = deploy".

I think our local office sums it up nicely. If you know that stuff will be coming, watch the available stuff and make a good judgement call.

On the same level, between local EMA agencies, ham radio groups, they tend to organize almost too much and are looking for, or are in need of, some sort of structure. Of the groups I have seen, they tend to self destruct for various reasons. Fortunatly out here, everyone plays nice. In other areas, not so much.

 

[AK9R]

Nobody gets notified from the NWS to go look at the sky...

Since each NWS office has slightly different policies and procedures and since every Skywarn group is different, the relationship between local NWS offices and local Skywarn groups varies greatly around the country. I think it's safe to say that the method by which Skywarn groups are activated depends a lot on these relationships.

The Indianapolis NWS office has a list of Central Indiana Skywarn net control operators (I am on that list). When the forecasters or the Warning Coordination Meteorologist believe that the developing weather situation warrants mobilizing Skywarn in the Indianapolis NWS 39-county warning area, they get on the phone and start calling people on that list. Since my name is near the bottom of the list (my choice), I've never gotten that phone call. But, I have been called by the guy at the top of the list in direct response to him being called by the NWS. The bottom line, though, is that the Central Indiana Net does not self-activate. It is totally at the direction of the NWS and they try to do it with enough advance warning so we can get ourselves in gear.

Once, it's operational, the Central Indiana Skywarn net asks individual county Skywarn nets to activate in advance of the weather moving through the CWA. The Central Indiana Skywarn Net Control also asks the NWS if individual counties can be stood down after the threat passes. Granted, these individual counties are free to activate and deactivate as they see fit without direct or indirect approval of the NWS. But, for the most part, everyone cooperates and does what's needed to serve the NWS.

On the other hand, I am Skywarn coordinator for my county. I routinely stress to the spotters in my county that we can activate our net before the Central Indiana net asks us. Our weather comes from the west, but the bulk of our population is in the eastern part of the county. If we have any chance of getting into position to spot incoming weather, we have to activate at least 30 minutes in advance.

 

[PJH]

Sounds resonable to me.

I guess part of the crux that I personally think is an issue (and whatever level it may be) is between the die hard stormspotters/chasers and the ham radio groups that are the most prevelant. In speaking with people, there are many ham clubs that believe they are Skywarn and that's that. Some seem to forget that plain old folks are spotters too.

This is where I think that some people miss the boat, and that for the non-radio people there could be some other form of notification. I know I am rambling here, but thats what a lack of sleep and being in a plane for the last 4.5 hours... but should have some speaking points to futher the thread.

 

[AK9R]

I have spent many hours at the Indianapolis NWS office serving as liaison between the Central Indiana net and the forecasters in the office. (During one event last May, I don't think I got up from my chair for about six hours.) One thing I have learned is that the office can very easily get bombarded with information. The media, public safety, the public themselves, Skywarn, non-ham spotters and chasers all feed into the mix. And, now, social media has become a factor. During large events, the Indianapolis office has someone who is specifically tasked with watching Facebook, Twitter, eSpotter, etc. When I first started going to the weather service for Skywarn nets over 20 years ago, amateur radio was a major part of the information pipeline. Times have changed. We are still important to the process, but we are by no means the sole source of real-time weather spotting information.

 

[PJH]

Ours has Facebook and is using the espotter system. They watch that as they can, but of course stresses picking up the phone and calling if really timely. I believe they said they get the espotter information within 15 seconds of the submission.

 

[rdale]

Actually eSpotter is somewhat falling by the wayside. It is limited to NWS use only, while SpotterNetwork puts the report instantly into NWSChat, EM, TV, radar software, RadarScope, etc.

 

[PJH]

I thought the NWS espotter stuff was for NWS use..so would make sense to me, vs needing to annouce it commerical and non-commerical use.

I am not against it, but if its a quick direct report to NWS, I find no fault with that. I do know that the local office does watch it, as they have called me out of the blue via the SpotterNetwork software about some incoming storms where I was. Not against it, but I think I'd have more faith in the espotter getting right to the NWS without the middlemen in the way.

Of course the phone is the best way anyways

 

[burner50]

Actually eSpotter is somewhat falling by the wayside. It is limited to NWS use only, while SpotterNetwork puts the report instantly into NWSChat, EM, TV, radar software, RadarScope, etc.

SpotterNetwork is widely thought of as a joke. More often than not in NWS Chat, a report on spotternetwork would simply be repeating something that had been called in by radio or brought up in NWS chat already so that people can get their Gold ranking or however you do it anymore.

When a member of the media would inquire about a spotternetwork report, the response from the others in the chat group would be to ignore it until somebody else can confirm the information presented... One of the biggest drawbacks is there is no easy way for NWS to ask for further information unless you also happen to be in NWSChat (which is not very common). The ten question quiz to become approved is a joke and the information cannot be vetted before it makes its way into the hands of the media.

I prefer (and use) eSpotter before spotternetwork if I don't use the telephone.


I remember a couple years back, there was someone parroting NWS Warnings in Spotternetwork reports every couple minutes filling NWSChat with nonsensical ramblings for the whole night.


The one time I submitted something by spotternetwork it was a flooded road (no flash flood warning) with vehicles stalled in it, and I was lambasted by the SN leadership because my estimate of the depth was not sufficient, and they wanted an exact measurement.


It should be noted that rdale is heavily involved with spotternetwork's senior leadership which is why he pushes it so hard.


Nothing beats a phone call to the NWS.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2

 

[burner50]

Again - I think you are playing the semantics game. The NWS calls out a crew to come to the office. In my mind, since they initiate a message that tells people to start doing Skywarn, they are activating Skywarn.

Note - "activate" and "control" are two different words. I didn't say anything about telling anyone to look at the sky or controlling their actions. They can (and do) activate Skywarn. They are not the only way Skywarn gets activated, which goes back to my very first post a year ago

No rob, It's not semantics. NWS does not activate spotters. They will flat out tell you that.

AT MOST, they will call in a volunteer to man a radio. Calling in a volunteer to assist them and activating spotters are two very different things.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2

 

[krokus]

NWS is part of NOAA, so both are correct, in that regard.

SkyWarn nets are activated locally, sometimes at the request of the local NWS office.

 

[PJH]

Again, skyward "nets" infer the ham radio crowd. What about the non-radio people?