NSW Police Radio Scanning (Australia)

[VK2FGAE]

There has been a lot of talk over many years about the NSW Police Force going digital encrypted state wide. It has been dragging on for more than ten years with the remaining analogue areas of the State only going digital in recent months. Some areas of the State have been using encryption with many areas yet to make the switch. It is not known when this process will be complete.

Analogue has continued being broadcast in many areas.

In recent weeks, something has changed with the analogue system. The far north appears to have disappeared with a completely different area transmitting over their frequency. A lot of analogue users are lost and asking for an alternate analogue frequency if one exists. Following these requests, a number of frequency ranges have been scanned looking for an alternate analogue frequency without success.

Does anyone know what has happened, why it happened, if there are still analogue options available for the far north of NSW and, if so, what are the frequencies now being used?

Big Rob
North Coast Crime

 

[KC4RAF]

You'll probably get a response

to your question if you post in the Australia forums:

Australia Radio Discussion Forums - The RadioReference.com Forums

hth

 

[mikewazowski]

Thread moved to Australia forum.

 

[VK2FGAE]

Thanks.

Still learning my way around Radio Reference.

 

[Boatanchor]

The medium term strategic plan for the NSW Government Telco Authority is to consolidate all Government agencies, including Police, onto an expanded GRN.

While the GRN only covers a limited area at present, this will change in the next 5 to 10 years, as hundreds of new GRN trunking sites come online in rural areas. This expansion will cost hundreds of millions of dollars, but the cost will likely be offset by significant savings generated by the reduction of the number of separate agency networks and associated maintenance and licensing costs.

While recent Police analogue to digital migrations have typically remained on the 'old' LEPS band (467-469Mhz), I do note that in the last 12 months, other non-LEPS agencies/users are also being granted allocations and are showing up in this band.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if certain Police Regions are already trialing GRN access in those areas with good coverage. After all, the mobile/portable radios are capable of the full 400-470Mhz coverage and wide band, UHF antennas are becoming more commonplace.

 

[rustynswrail]

There has been a lot of talk over many years about the NSW Police Force going digital encrypted state wide. It has been dragging on for more than ten years with the remaining analogue areas of the State only going digital in recent months. Some areas of the State have been using encryption with many areas yet to make the switch. It is not known when this process will be complete.

Analogue has continued being broadcast in many areas.

In recent weeks, something has changed with the analogue system. The far north appears to have disappeared with a completely different area transmitting over their frequency. A lot of analogue users are lost and asking for an alternate analogue frequency if one exists. Following these requests, a number of frequency ranges have been scanned looking for an alternate analogue frequency without success.

Does anyone know what has happened, why it happened, if there are still analogue options available for the far north of NSW and, if so, what are the frequencies now being used?

Big Rob
North Coast Crime

It is a fact of life that emergency services (not just police agencies) across the country are migrating to digital and encrypted systems. There is nothing that can be done about as the encryption is AES and beyond the capabilities of the common man to crack under normal circumstances. Unlike the US there is no law against listening to or cracking encrypt audio in Australia, it is just bloody hard to do.

The move to encrypt is prompted by a number of factors, privacy and safety being the two most quoted.

Without sounding harsh, move on and find something else to listen to or sell the scanner because it is going to get worse as more agencies go down the encryption path.

R

 

[VK2FGAE]

The only agency moving to encryption in NSW is the NSW Police Force who have chosen not to jump onto the GRN. The scanners will still be very useful in picking up all other agencies for a very long time.

There are also many safety issues with the digital system particularly around reception and transmission. I hear it often that police cannot get through.

Furthermore, the encryption is easy to crack. It just costs a bit of money and they can just change the encryption so you waste your money. It happened in Sydney a couple of years ago with tow truck operators.

My apologies if you cannot understand why a hobbyist would enquire whether alternate analogue frequencies exist but, not to sound harsh or anything, I think it is someone who cannot provide a solution or useful information that should move on and not post anything.

If you do not know an alternate analogue frequency, just say so.

Big Rob
North Coast Crime

 

[kayn1n32008]

Furthermore, the encryption is easy to crack. It just costs a bit of money and they can just change the encryption so you waste your money.

Big Rob

North Coast Crime

Do you have any sources to cite backing up the claim that encryption is easy to break? Maybe Motorola ADP, it is only a 40bit key, it would not take that much time to break, but not quick enough to make the recovered key very useful.

You obviously have no idea about modern encryption. AES256 is very secure. No hobbiest, regardless of time or money spent, is going to break it. Any police force serious about securing their communications will not use anything less. Even DES-OFB will keep all but the most dedicated out. While DES has been broken, it was not in real time. Thus making what ever comms of interest, useless.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[VK2FGAE]

It seems forums have not changed. Everyone still wants to flex their 'brain muscles'!!!

I never said it was easy to crack 'for a hobbyist'.

I will leave you with this old news story:

No Cookies | dailytelegraph.com.au

Can we please get back on topic now?

I just want to know if anyone has found any working analogue frequencies that cover police radio in the far northern parts of NSW.

Big Rob
North Coast Crime

 

[kayn1n32008]

Furthermore, the encryption is easy to crack.



Big Rob

North Coast Crime

Here you said encryption is easy to crack.

I never said it was easy to crack 'for a hobbyist'

Hobbyist or not you said it was easy to defeat.

I will leave you with this old news story:



No Cookies | dailytelegraph.com.au



Big Rob

North Coast Crime

Sounds like some one leaked encryption keys and made a lot of money doing it. If the network is secured using AES256 then it was leaked keys not 'cracking' encryption. It is also likely why the police refuse to talk about it. It also sounds like the police did not change keys very often.

 

[VK2FGAE]

Ok mate. You're the best!

Clearly you have nothing to contribute regarding working analogue police frequencies in northern NSW.

Have a nice day.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Ok mate. You're the best!



Clearly you have nothing to contribute regarding working analogue police frequencies in northern NSW.



Have a nice day.

Not about being 'best' just don't like garbage being spread as fact.

 

[VK2FGAE]

No!!!

You are definitely the best!!!

You really showed me!!!

Thanks.

 

[kayn1n32008]

No!!!



You are definitely the best!!!



You really showed me!!!



Thanks.

Grow up.

 

[Boatanchor]

It seems forums have not changed. Everyone still wants to flex their 'brain muscles'!!!

I never said it was easy to crack 'for a hobbyist'.

I will leave you with this old news story:

No Cookies | dailytelegraph.com.au

Can we please get back on topic now?

I just want to know if anyone has found any working analogue frequencies that cover police radio in the far northern parts of NSW.

Big Rob
North Coast Crime

It is doubtful that any analogue comms is left in any of the high population areas.
NSWP used to have some VHF high band analogue allocations in the Snowy Mountains as well as some 80Mhz and HF allocations 'out West'. I know the 160Mhz allocations have gone and not sure about the 80Mhz stuff. It's possible the HF network id still active too.

As for NSW Police not wanting to go on the GRN, I'm afraid they won't have a say in the matter
NSWP, like all other State Government agencies are dictated to by the Telco Authority.
While NSWP are currently still in the 468/9Mhz band it is only a temporary arrangement. Once the GRN expansion phase is completed, they will be migrating over to it too. The GRN is fully AES/DES encryption compatible, so it won't be a problem to simply switch over.

Sorry it's not exactly what you wanted to hear.

 

[VK2FGAE]

There is still a 78 channel working but it seems they have crossed the areas over. Was hoping the original area would just pop up on a different frequency in the range but had no luck scanning an alternative.

Regarding the GRN, I understood that the NSW Police Force would maintain their own secure network independent of it at considerable extra cost to taxpayers.

 

[com501]

How hard would it be to get up next to a scene and use a frequency counter to figure out where they are transmitting? There are several scanners that have that feature also.

 

[VK2FGAE]

Very easy but I imagine that would only show the digital frequency they are using. Don't know enough about frequency counters.

I have tried using features in my UBCD396XT scanner but still working it all out.

Big Rob
North Coast Crime

 

[wa4yur]

I have a frequency counter mounted in my truck with an outside broad band antenna and can lock on to a 100 watt transmitter at about 200 feet away as long as it is standard narrow fm. digital signals don't do so well have to be closer but works most of the time but you have to remember that you will get the car transmit frequency or repeater input frequency. you have to locate the repeater and get close to it to get the output frequency.be sure to get a counter that locks on to the freq and holds the display until you release it .You will be surprised at the stuff you can read especially if you have a gain antenna like a dual band ham mobile antenna

 

[VK2FGAE]

I think I will have to do some quick learning to determine the best way to do that up here.

Thanks for the info.

Big Rob
North Coast Crime