NXDN Update Now Available!

[werinshades]

Hello,

The missed traffic could be due to missing frequencies for a site, or the traffic is only on some of the sites.

The Diga-Talk system is programmed as a NXDN(C) trunked system under the Trunked Radio Systems tab in the PC Application. The RAN value on a NXDN(C) system is the site number modulus 64. This system appears to have site numbers above 64, but for your purposes you can group the frequencies with the same RAN together. Create a site in Site Details for each RAN and put the frequencies with the RAN in the site frequencies.

73 Eric

In my situation, and probably others who monitor this system, the best option so far has been to program all the frequencies in the site, Any for RAN, and go from there. You are correct as some talk groups have been assigned to operate only on certain frequencies in the system, even if it isn't the "closest". I'll continue to search for missed frequencies, but from my investigation, the frequencies for this system are incorect:

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=5883


Here's what I have so far:

RAN-6: 452.025, 452.425, 463.3125, 471.300, 471.750, 471.850, 472.0875, 472.000, 472.025, 472.3125, 472.425 ,472.550, 474.350

RAN-7: 452.2125, 478.0125

RAN-9: 471.900

RAN-16: 452.4625, 452.875 ,471.350

RAN-24: 451.84375, 451.85625 ,452.88125

Control Channel: 472.7125

 

[troymail]

As you know, the RRDB listings can be far from accurate. In some cases, I myself have submitted a NXDN site based on the control channel frequency because it is/was the only frequency that was active (some systems/sites around me are in their infancy and carry little to no traffic to allow finding the others easily).

These systems are much harder to figure out than P25 given for P25 you only need the control channel frequency(s) and they tend to load the system frequencies up (or at least rotate usage of most all of the site frequencies fairly quickly).

A couple of things I'd do:

- use one or more of the existing frequencies to search ULS listings for other possible frequencies for that site; we all know that ULS isn't 100% either so I'd program all of the repeater frequencies for a site regardless of if they say NXDN emissions or not (depending on the total number, I might even program some of the mobile frequencies as well).

- program each site as a separate system with at least a wildcard talkgroup assigned to each but in a different scanlist

- you've probably already done this but you could use the limit search capability with only NXDN checked to search/find NXDN frequencies in the area; then sort them out based on RAN values; compare findings to the ULS data

 

[werinshades]

As you know, the RRDB listings can be far from accurate. In some cases, I myself have submitted a NXDN site based on the control channel frequency because it is/was the only frequency that was active (some systems/sites around me are in their infancy and carry little to no traffic to allow finding the others easily).

These systems are much harder to figure out than P25 given for P25 you only need the control channel frequency(s) and they tend to load the system frequencies up (or at least rotate usage of most all of the site frequencies fairly quickly).

A couple of things I'd do:

- use one or more of the existing frequencies to search ULS listings for other possible frequencies for that site; we all know that ULS isn't 100% either so I'd program all of the repeater frequencies for a site regardless of if they say NXDN emissions or not (depending on the total number, I might even program some of the mobile frequencies as well).

- program each site as a separate system with at least a wildcard talkgroup assigned to each but in a different scanlist

- you've probably already done this but you could use the limit search capability with only NXDN checked to search/find NXDN frequencies in the area; then sort them out based on RAN values; compare findings to the ULS data

I think I've done everything suggested and yes I know, much of the info in the database is not accurate. I programmed each site (based upon RAN), and added the wildcard, and can say that didn't work in my situation. What was kind of odd as I mentioned, even the site that was the closest to me (RAN 24), much of the closest talk groups were not active but as soon as I programmed the other site (RAN 6), the system became active again. I've tightened up the squelch a bit to speed through the numerous frequencies better, and so far (in my situation on this system), it would appear programming all the frequencies would be the optimal way to monitor this system because many talk groups are scattered on different RAN's and not based upon location. Thank you for the suggestion.

 

[troymail]

In reality/truth - I find most of the activity on DMR and NXDN (and LTR) to be so uninteresting (taxi cabs, tow trucks, concrete delivery, etc.), I don't spend much time on it beyond what is obvious - it's just not worth it.... but that's me.

There are exceptions which are a bit easier to figure out like cases where a jurisdiction is using one of these modes for public safety (there are a few out there but not near me).

 

[werinshades]

In reality/truth - I find most of the activity on DMR and NXDN (and LTR) to be so uninteresting (taxi cabs, tow trucks, concrete delivery, etc.), I don't spend much time on it beyond what is obvious - it's just not worth it.... but that's me.

There are exceptions which are a bit easier to figure out like cases where a jurisdiction is using one of these modes for public safety (there are a few out there but not near me).

I will agree there, but for right now it's more of a challenge to figure things out for me. A funny little story behind this NXDN thing...I live by Midway Airport and of course there's a lot to listen to, especially during bad weather or sometimes just day-to-day activity. For the longest time, I could never find the Shuttle Buses on either VHF, UHF etc. So the DMR update comes along and I think ah ha, I bet I find them now! Nope...I tried the Close Call etc...nothing. So, I'm thinking "ok, where the fu** are they hiding?". I've searched LTR, some CAP+ and CON Trunking systems and no luck. I have given up and thought they have to be on NXDN. When I first receive the scanner, set up the search feature and one of the first talk groups I received (83) was the Shuttle bus. Further investigation reveals the Rental shuttles on another talk group, other shuttles on other talk groups and I was surprised.

I used to enjoy LTR monitoring, because you never know what you'll find. I have numerous scanners running, so it really doesn't prevent me from missing the "important" police and fire radio traffic. It has opened up a new world. I now can monitor unencrypted P25 phase 1 & 2 digital, MotoTRBO, and NXDN radio traffic. It just seems like Whistler is stepping up the game a bit, but like I said I would pay for a NXDN upgrade on my x36hp series scanners.

I utilized the Scan lists on my TRX-2, and even set up a Wild Card Scan list so I can turn it on and off. I can limit my NXDN monitoring with a few button pushes if something comes up.

**As I'm typing this, I heard a fire reported and on the NXDN scanner, a board-up company was enroute to the fire too. You never know****

 

[troymail]

Worst case, I just put one of my radios into NXDN hunt mode and let it run a few days. Then, later look at what the radio captured and try to sort it out...

 

[EricCottrell]

Hello,

There should be a total of five control channels, one for each site. 474.3500 is an input channel, is it really 472.3500?.

I suspect that the Chicago site is a main site and could have another couple of frequencies. Melrose Park very likely has more frequencies than have been identified.

233 South Wacker Drive, Chicago RAN 6
WPMP798 WPUD822 WQIP283 WQND576 WPLV256 WQEL586 WQKI906 WII997
Identifed: 452.0250 452.4250 463.3125 471.3000 471.7500 471.8500 472.0000 472.0250 472.0875 472.3125 472.4250 472.5500
Licensed: 451.7750 451.9750 452.4625 452.6250 452.8750 461.4125 461.8625 463.2125 470.3500 470.6000 470.6250 470.8500 471.4500 471.6500
Licensed: 471.8250 471.8750 472.2500 472.2750 472.3250 472.3500 472.7000 472.9750

1903 Ruby Street, Melrose Park RAN 7
WPNV805 WPPF342
Identifed: 452.2125 478.0125
Licensed: 452.5625 452.6125 478.1875 478.3375 478.4875 478.6375

15000 S Rockwell, Posen RAN 16
WQNR854 WQTM420 WQMJ511
Identifed: 452.46250 452.87500 471.3500
Licensed: 452.23125 452.24375 452.26875 452.36875 452.50000

Midway Airport RAN 24
WQUQ707
Identifed: 451.84375 451.85625 452.88125

Again, it is best to separate the frequencies into separate sites. They will all be scanned, but it will be better organized.

This thread talks about NXDN(C) trunking. The Whistler does not use LCN values, so that part is not applicable.
https://forums.radioreference.com/v...re/298075-understanding-nexedge-trunking.html

73 Eric

 

[werinshades]

Hello,

There should be a total of five control channels, one for each site. 474.3500 is an input channel, is it really 472.3500?.

I suspect that the Chicago site is a main site and could have another couple of frequencies. Melrose Park very likely has more frequencies than have been identified.

233 South Wacker Drive, Chicago RAN 6
WPMP798 WPUD822 WQIP283 WQND576 WPLV256 WQEL586 WQKI906 WII997
Identifed: 452.0250 452.4250 463.3125 471.3000 471.7500 471.8500 472.0000 472.0250 472.0875 472.3125 472.4250 472.5500
Licensed: 451.7750 451.9750 452.4625 452.6250 452.8750 461.4125 461.8625 463.2125 470.3500 470.6000 470.6250 470.8500 471.4500 471.6500
Licensed: 471.8250 471.8750 472.2500 472.2750 472.3250 472.3500 472.7000 472.9750

1903 Ruby Street, Melrose Park RAN 7
WPNV805 WPPF342
Identifed: 452.2125 478.0125
Licensed: 452.5625 452.6125 478.1875 478.3375 478.4875 478.6375

15000 S Rockwell, Posen RAN 16
WQNR854 WQTM420 WQMJ511
Identifed: 452.46250 452.87500 471.3500
Licensed: 452.23125 452.24375 452.26875 452.36875 452.50000

Midway Airport RAN 24
WQUQ707
Identifed: 451.84375 451.85625 452.88125

Again, it is best to separate the frequencies into separate sites. They will all be scanned, but it will be better organized.

This thread talks about NXDN(C) trunking. The Whistler does not use LCN values, so that part is not applicable.
https://forums.radioreference.com/v...re/298075-understanding-nexedge-trunking.html


73 Eric

I separated the Sites as suggested, so far no noticeable difference. Went back to searching and found 2 more frequencies: 463.500, 472.0875...coming up as RAN-22...(Arlington Heights, IL) Added this site to the System.

 

[EricCottrell]

I think I've done everything suggested and yes I know, much of the info in the database is not accurate. I programmed each site (based upon RAN), and added the wildcard, and can say that didn't work in my situation. What was kind of odd as I mentioned, even the site that was the closest to me (RAN 24), much of the closest talk groups were not active but as soon as I programmed the other site (RAN 6), the system became active again. I've tightened up the squelch a bit to speed through the numerous frequencies better, and so far (in my situation on this system), it would appear programming all the frequencies would be the optimal way to monitor this system because many talk groups are scattered on different RAN's and not based upon location. Thank you for the suggestion.

Hello,

Midway Airport (RAN 24) is likely a site for users at Midway Airport. It could also be a filler site based on the low channel count. You will only hear users at Midway Airport and possibly other talkgroups if a user of the talkgroup is affiliated with the site. Most multi-site trunked systems work that way, a talkgroup transmission will only appear on a site when there is at least one user affiliated with the site. So a user that only operates in the Posen area would likely only appear on the Posen RAN 16 site.

Chicago RAN 6 appears to be a main site with all those channels. You likely get a lot of users in the Downtown Chicago Area and it would be one of the most active sites.

73 Eric

 

[werinshades]

Hello,

Midway Airport (RAN 24) is likely a site for users at Midway Airport. It could also be a filler site based on the low channel count. You will only hear users at Midway Airport and possibly other talkgroups if a user of the talkgroup is affiliated with the site. Most multi-site trunked systems work that way, a talkgroup transmission will only appear on a site when there is at least one user affiliated with the site. So a user that only operates in the Posen area would likely only appear on the Posen RAN 16 site.

Chicago RAN 6 appears to be a main site with all those channels. You likely get a lot of users in the Downtown Chicago Area and it would be one of the most active sites.

73 Eric

I believe you are correct about the Midway Airport site (RAN 24). I searched with one of my other scanners to listen for a strong control channel signal without any luck. I tried locking out all other sites except the Midway site before and the radio traffic was severely reduced to maybe 1 talk group.

I did find some other control channels for other sites. Here's a question...should I program those control channels in the known location/sites or should I continue to use the strongest control channel I was receiving? The RAN 6 control channel of 472. 7125 is the strongest, and I programmed that in on every site. Is programming a control channel on every site necessary on this type of system to obtain optimum results?

 

[troymail]

I wouldn't focus too much on multiple control channel frequencies as a course of action.

Treat each site (set of frequencies) like a separate system.

Ultimately, it really comes down to finding and grouping/separating out ALL of the frequencies for any given site - control or voice. If you don't have all of the site frequencies for the site you are listening to, you will miss activity.

 

[werinshades]

I wouldn't focus too much on multiple control channel frequencies as a course of action.

Treat each site (set of frequencies) like a separate system.

Ultimately, it really comes down to finding and grouping/separating out ALL of the frequencies for any given site - control or voice. If you don't have all of the site frequencies for the site you are listening to, you will miss activity.

Yep you are correct. I reverted back to my original site programming with the strongest control channel as this has all the makings of a NXDN-C system. Separating sites would not make much of a difference if I'm trying to hold on a specific talk group that I want to suddenly monitor because I want to log it. I'm assuming the TRX-2 behaves like all the other Trunking scanners after the update in that the scanner is finding talkgroups, then finds the frequency with the radio traffic? I'm enjoying this hunting expedition.

 

[troymail]

Yep you are correct. I reverted back to my original site programming with the strongest control channel as this has all the makings of a NXDN-C system. Separating sites would not make much of a difference if I'm trying to hold on a specific talk group that I want to suddenly monitor because I want to log it. I'm assuming the TRX-2 behaves like all the other Trunking scanners after the update in that the scanner is finding talkgroups, then finds the frequency with the radio traffic? I'm enjoying this hunting expedition.

Based on other posts, I believe the control channel is of little interest in this implementation.

The radio is checking all known/programmed frequencies for activity on any given talkgroup. If you hold on a talkgroup (ID), the radio will check each frequency programmed for that talkgroup.

Given this, there are a couple of considerations that will impact your reception:

- if all site frequencies are not programmed, you will likely miss traffic.

- if frequencies for multiple sites are programmed and checked, performance will be impacted while the radio cycles through all of the programmed frequencies

- if the same talkgroup is carried on more than one site, trying to scan all sites could result in poor reception of a more distant site if that one is found before a closer site frequency (or that closer site frequency isn't programmed at all)

For all of these reasons, you'll want to focus on separate sites and all associated frequencies for that given site and avoid scanning remote site or other unrelated frequencies.

 

[werinshades]

Based on other posts, I believe the control channel is of little interest in this implementation.

The radio is checking all known/programmed frequencies for activity on any given talkgroup. If you hold on a talkgroup (ID), the radio will check each frequency programmed for that talkgroup.

Given this, there are a couple of considerations that will impact your reception:

- if all site frequencies are not programmed, you will likely miss traffic.

- if frequencies for multiple sites are programmed and checked, performance will be impacted while the radio cycles through all of the programmed frequencies

- if the same talkgroup is carried on more than one site, trying to scan all sites could result in poor reception of a more distant site if that one is found before a closer site frequency (or that closer site frequency isn't programmed at all)

For all of these reasons, you'll want to focus on separate sites and all associated frequencies for that given site and avoid scanning remote site or other unrelated frequencies.

I do have different sites, just locked out all but 1 at the moment. System is obviously very busy during the day. From where I'm at, I searched the known bands and were able to catch 24 frequencies with 6 different RAN's. 1 site has all 24 frequencies, RAN set to ANY, RAN-6 control channel (Strongest) site set to NXDN-C. If I remove the known control channel, no radio traffic on system.

I'm thinking...if I want to hold 1 talk group, instead of scanner searching through 6 sites , all frequencies condensed in 1 site and should be able to detect traffic quicker?

Scanner is picking up all programmed talk groups currently on the "1 site approach" and not seeing any difference. Thoughts ?

 

[swm239]

To Wendy or others in the know, can you clarify if this radio trunk tracks data from the control channel frequency? If not, then I can see why traffic would be dropping or missed. If it does not trunk track are there plans for a software update to correct this?

 

[werinshades]

To Wendy or others in the know, can you clarify if this radio trunk tracks data from the control channel frequency? If not, then I can see why traffic would be dropping or missed. If it does not trunk track are there plans for a software update to correct this?

I'm not "in the know", but asked that question previously and was told with the latest update, it does trunk the NXDN control channel. When a Talk group comes up, I see the "T" on the screen so I'll assume that info is correct. However...in a previous post, I was told my set up, the control channel has little or no bearing. Sooo...I don't really know, but it seems to work well.

 

[wa8pyr]

This thread talks about NXDN(C) trunking. The Whistler does not use LCN values, so that part is not applicable.

Not so sure about that; with my TRX-1, I had quite a bit of trouble with missed transmissions and so on. However, once I identified the proper channel numbers and entered them appropriately, it started working just fine.

 

[swm239]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies. Tom, are you able to sit on just the control channel and will it track the system ( or a system)?? If you have to enter the other voice freqs and scan them then as I mentioned earlier you would likely miss some of the replies. This would be similar to a conventional trunked system or DMR system that has a control channel. If I can determine that it will track a Nexn system by the control channel I would order one today. If only decodes on voice channels, then I am better off with DSD on computer. It sounds like if you have some single channel Nexn freqs it would work well on those. Thanks for any further info.
Scott

 

[troymail]

Actually, DMR systems cannot be programmed with only the control channel either.

For Whistler radios, for both DMR and NXDN, you mut program all of the frequencies for the given system/site.

For Uniden, you have to do the same but also provide additional specifics (LCNs).

Public safety systems (with some exceptions) - i.e. Motorola Smartzone, P25, etc. - generally use standard trunking tables where the voice frequencies assigned are sent in the control channel (as channel numbers I believe). To my knowledge, DMR and NXDN systems do not... but, I'm not 100+% absolutely certain on this....and it seems that DMR and NXDN are evolving much more rapidly these days than P25 systems are....

 

[swm239]

Hi Troy, thanks for the further updates. Can you or have you followed a trunked system and then stopped and hold on a specific talkgroup? In doing so, are you able to follow further conversations?
Thanks, Scott