NXDN Update Now Available!

[AggieCon]

I disagree for NXDN trunk mode -- with the squelch completely CCW, the radio is spending a tremendous amount of time trying to process static.

Troy, I think you missed my point above.

The squelch setting has no impact on NXDN when programmed as trunked. The scanner is rotating through each frequency for the dwell time regardless of the squelch position and if there is a signal. So, yes, the scanner is wasting time.

Unless, of course, someone has evidence against this finding.

Program as conventional, and I am sure results will be better.

 

[troymail]

The squelch setting has no impact on NXDN when programmed as trunked.

Disagree

 

[AggieCon]

Can you please post the evidence?

 

[troymail]

When I have the squelch fully CCW, I see 'S' alot and correspondingly, I miss alot of traffic

 

[AggieCon]

Sure. But I'm asking for the inverse situation.

I am interested in seeing a video of a NXDN system wildcard on hold with the squelch all the way clockwise. I am interested to see whether or not the black is solid/blinking most of the time.

I think it will be. However, I would like to see an example where this is not the case.

 

[troymail]

You don't have to believe what I'm saying but hopefully this is enough:

http://forums.radioreference.com/wh...-nxdn-update-now-available-6.html#post2684763

Sounds very similar.

 

[KC1UA]

Sure. But I'm asking for the inverse situation.

I am interested in seeing a video of a NXDN system wildcard on hold with the squelch all the way clockwise. I am interested to see whether or not the black is solid/blinking most of the time.

I think it will be. However, I would like to see an example where this is not the case.

Here you go. Same system as I've been testing with, programmed as trunked, squelch fully clockwise. Yeah, to the right...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUYXUCkRR38

 

[AggieCon]

Here you go. Same system as I've been testing with, programmed as trunked, squelch fully clockwise. Yeah, to the right...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUYXUCkRR38

As I was saying...

Interesting, though, that global attenuation has an affect on this.

I await a video proving this video and my assertion to be incorrect. Otherwise, I'll leave it to forum readers to decide what they think is correct. I'm merely trying to help people receive NXDN.

 

[DonS]

Here you go. Same system as I've been testing with, programmed as trunked, squelch fully clockwise. Yeah, to the right...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUYXUCkRR38

It's breaking squelch whenever the inverted 'S' icon turns on. You proved that when you turned on global attenuation and saw a reduction in how often the icon is "on".

To really prove it, try this:
* squelch knob fully CW
* global attenuation on ("GA" on LCD)
* antenna disconnected

Unless you have a strong RF source in the room, you should never see the 'S' icon. If you turn the squelch knob fully CCW, it will likely appear.

 

[DonS]

Alternatively, go into "Browser" mode, navigate to a talkgroup on that system, and press SEL. The scanner is now "scanning" that system. You'll see the signal bars and, when (and only when) squelch opens, the RF squelch icon (larger, bold "S" at the extreme top left).

The inverted 'S' icon should only appear when the RF squelch icon is active.

 

[AggieCon]

I have an idea. Remove the control channel frequency from the site frequency list and see if that helps. I wonder if the scanner is getting hung up on that. After the control channel is removed, does the black box inverted S still behave the same as before?

 

[DonS]

I have an idea. Remove the control channel frequency from the site frequency list and see if that helps. I wonder if the scanner is getting hung up on that. After the control channel is removed, does the black box inverted S still behave the same as before?

It will probably behave the same, if he even has a control channel programmed. (I suspect the scanner is never tuning to an active "control channel" - see below.)

The inverted S turns on when RF squelch opens and the scanner starts looking for data. It turns into a 'T' after both a) a NXDN signal is detected AND b) any of several message types (FACCH1, SACCH, SCCH, SAC) are received.

In the videos, I don't see 'T'. That means it's not receiving any of those messages. If it was getting hung up on an active control channel, such messages should be received and the icon should change to 'T'.

 

[KC1UA]

I most certainly do have an active control channel programmed. And it has plenty of signal strength. I'm dumb, but I'm not THAT dumb.

I'll work through the other suggestions ASAP.

 

[KC1UA]

To really prove it, try this:
* squelch knob fully CW
* global attenuation on ("GA" on LCD)
* antenna disconnected

OK, this works as you suggest. No flashing inverted S at this point.

Alternatively, go into "Browser" mode, navigate to a talkgroup on that system, and press SEL. The scanner is now "scanning" that system. You'll see the signal bars and, when (and only when) squelch opens, the RF squelch icon (larger, bold "S" at the extreme top left).

The inverted 'S' icon should only appear when the RF squelch icon is active.

Done, and watching it as I type this, I'm holding on the Wildcard for the system I've been using as a test platform. I'm connected to my external antenna again. The inverted S is flashing and for the most part always visible. The bold S is nearly always visible. The signal strength is pegged.

EDIT/ADDITION: When removing the antenna at this point, both inverted S and solid S disappear.

In the videos, I don't see 'T'. That means it's not receiving any of those messages. If it was getting hung up on an active control channel, such messages should be received and the icon should change to 'T'.

Maybe it's just the video quality, but that flashing inverted S is changing to a T when a talkgroup is present. It has all along...when it's receiving a talkgroup, that is.

 

[DonS]

Maybe it's just the video quality, but that flashing inverted S is changing to a T when a talkgroup is present. It has all along...when it's receiving a talkgroup, that is.

I saw that. I was referring to the times when it seems to show only an 'S' (i.e. when it also shows "Scan").

If it was getting "hung up on a control channel" (without decoding voice), the 'T' should appear when it shows "Scan". It doesn't appear to be doing that.

 

[AggieCon]

My confident assertion is that the active control channel is slowing down NXDN and messing things up when these are programmed as trunked objects.

When it is finally accepted that this is the case, I hope the Whistler Group will send me a nice Christmas present.

 

[KC1UA]

For what it's worth, if I remove the active control channel from the site I'm scanning (still in trunking mode just no CC) the flashing S is completely gone regardless of the squelch position, until there is a signal present, and then in that case whether or not the TRX-1 is receiving it. I'm again checking activity against DSD+.

With the CC removed I am still seeing TG and radio ID info which makes me wonder if the scanner even uses the control channel for trunking.

I figured the visible inverted S was showing because a signal was present, but now the system is silent again, but I have to close the squelch to make it disappear, which I guess makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that why, when squelch was counter clockwise all the way, the S was not at all present until the first signal was received.

Hopefully I'm making sense. I'm running out of gas with this at this point. And if it's just one defective radio or an environmental issue then we're all wasting our time.

 

[MichaelBhere]

Dumb question but if the RF source is this strong, have you tested with the TRX-1 factory antenna? Maybe your external antenna is part of the problem causing the inverted S to blink often.

 

[KC1UA]

Dumb question but if the RF source is this strong, have you tested with the TRX-1 factory antenna? Maybe your external antenna is part of the problem causing the inverted S to blink often.

I surely took that into consideration and ran with a few different rubber ducky antennas, one cut for the UHF band and the other a Radio Shack 800 MHz antenna obviously not cut for 450-470 reception (although it does a pretty good job everywhere).

As far as I can see now the issue appears to be the fact that the control channel was an active part of the programming. With the control channel removed and the system still being scanned as a trunked system, performance is far better and the flashing S is only present when there is a signal present on the system and voice is not being decoded. When voice is being decoded the T flashes. From what I understand from Don's posts, aside that there's no control channel programmed, this is relatively normal for the display.

So that pesky control channel, which one would have thought would be a must for tracking a trunked radio system, appears to be the detriment instead. Who knew?

 

[AggieCon]

Dumb question but if the RF source is this strong, have you tested with the TRX-1 factory antenna? Maybe your external antenna is part of the problem causing the inverted S to blink often.

Great point. If the active control signal strength is marginal at your location, switching from a quality antenna to the junk shipped with the scanner, you could very well accomplish that! Of course, you won't hear anything else on the NXDN system either.