OFFICIAL NYSEG P25 System Thread

[PJH]

Talkgroups cannot be reused.

Most likely a talkgroup is patched (for whatever reason) or that another radio is affiatiated to the same talkgroup in another area...nothing different than what would happen in a SmartZone system.

 

[pro92b]

Using two scanners I am hearing talkgroups simulcasted on different towers. They seem to cover a wide area - group 131 covers far eastern Dutchess down to Westchester from what I've heard. It would be hard to cover all that area with one tower. I don't think reusing talkgroups would result in a workable system.

 

[rbm]

I've heard the same transmissions on as many as five sites at the same time. It depends on where affiliated units are. I typically can hear each transmission on two or three sites.

I suspect that the reason I heard the Fleismanns base dispatch above is because one of the units from that group was in the Binghamton area. Possibly at NYSEG headquarters there.

Rich

 

[PJH]

And you get the gold star!

The P25 9600 systems are very much like the Motorola SmartZone and SmartZone Omnilink systems.

If you have 1000 sites, and everyone has a radio set on the same talkgroup by all 1000 sites, your going to hear it everywhere. If you have just two radios, one on talkgroup A on the north end, and one on the south end, it will only be heard on those two sites or regions (depending on TRS configuration).

For the most part, 99% of all talkgroups are not by default broadcasted system wide. The usual exceptions are on weather, emergency or related talkgroups if the scan feature is enabled on the subscriber units. (If no scan, no need to go system wide as the other radios will not hear it anyways).

 

[bezking]

My first action as moderator is to stick this thread and declare it official.


Please submit any more *confirmed* findings to the database so we can get them added - I will begin to work through this thread and update the database shortly. Thanks!


--b

 

[DaveNF2G]

I have identified new talkgroups in the capital area and redesignated some of the IDs based on traffic heard.

http://nf2g.com/scannist/0269.html

Also, here are my NYSEG radio codes so far:

Signal 1 = in service
Signal 2 = out of service
Signal 7 = acknowledge
Signal 37 = customer account problem (used in connection with bounced checks in one case)

 

[EricCottrell]

Hello,

I just returned from my trip and actually managed to pick up a few sites. I need to go through and organized the data. I have a observation and a question.

How have people picked up the callsigns? On both unitrunker and pro96com the callsign field was blank.

The PSR-600 had problems with the site on 151.970. It recognized it as a control channel but could not decode the Sysid, WACN, etc. The NAC was 260 which is the same as used on NYSEG. I was slightly west of Albany but this site seemed to have good coverage. I had the same problem with the PSR-600 on the RENIR system in Quebec. I am using the latest firmware.

73 Eric

 

[bezking]

OK.. I think the DB is appropriately updated. Please have a look and advise.


Thanks!

 

[pro92b]

Hello,

I just returned from my trip and actually managed to pick up a few sites. I need to go through and organized the data. I have a observation and a question.

How have people picked up the callsigns? On both unitrunker and pro96com the callsign field was blank.

The PSR-600 had problems with the site on 151.970. It recognized it as a control channel but could not decode the Sysid, WACN, etc. The NAC was 260 which is the same as used on NYSEG. I was slightly west of Albany but this site seemed to have good coverage. I had the same problem with the PSR-600 on the RENIR system in Quebec. I am using the latest firmware.

73 Eric

Some sites transmit callsigns and some don't. Of five sites I can receive, one transmits a real FCC callsign, two transmit what amounts to an alpha tag that presumably identifies the site location, and two transmit no callsign. I use PRO96com to gather the information.

Of the five sites receivable here, one (151.730) behaves as you noted for 151.97. The other four show system, tower and WACN. Note that 151.73 and 151.97 appear to be older licenses and maybe there is a firmware or other significant difference in the transmitter that accounts for the lack of complete data displayed on the PSR scanners. PRO96com does show data for 151.73 even though the scanner does not. GRE probably needs to tweak firmware so that it is as capable as PRO96com in this area. Despite the deficiency in displaying system and site data, the scanner does track transmissions controlled by 151.73.

 

[EricCottrell]

Hello,

Here is a summary of what unitrunker and pro96com logged. I should have done more than two sites with Pro96com as it had more information. The locations are just markers. It does not mean that all system below a location was received at the location. I just wanted a rough idea where the sites were.

NYSEG Monitoring  Rochester, NY to MA Line going East
Sysid 269   WACN BEE00  NAC 260
Monitored Sites in order of reception
East of Rochester

R1 S043
	152.5175 Control
	152.1575 Alt Control

R1 S017
	152.1575 Control
	152.5475 Alt Control
	152.7875 Alt Control

R1 S008
	152.5325 Control

R1 S005    		Neighbors: R0 S016, R1 S004, R1 S008, R1 S010, R1 S012
	152.0975 Control
	152.2025 Alt Control
	152.8175 Voice/Data

R1 S015    		Neighbors: R1 S004, R1 S007, R1 S008, R1 S009, R1 S012, R1 S017, R1 S018, R1 S039
	152.7575 Control
	152.0225 Alt Control
	153.59750 Voice

R1 S004
	152.7725 Control
	153.7100

Syracuse

R1 S007
	152.1425 Control

Rome

R1 S013
	152.5025 Control
	152.1575 Alt Control

Half way between Utica and Albany

R1 S024
	152.7125 Control

?? ???? (No Decode of Tower Info)
	151.970 Control?

R1 S026
	152.6375 Control

Schenectady

R1 S021
	152.0525 Control

R1 S028
	152.2175 Control

East of Albany

R1 S020
	152.6825 Control

R1 S014
	152.8175 Control

Other neighbor sites

R0 S016
       153.2750 Control

R1 S003
	152.5175 Control

R1 S009
	152.0825 Control

R1 S010
       153.2000 Control

R1 S011
	152.7875 Control

R1 S012
       153.2150 Control

R1 S018
	152.7425 Control

R1 S022
	152.2025 Control

R1 S025
	152.1575 Control

R1 S027
	152.2175 Control

R1 S030
	152.8025 Control

R1 S032
	152.2025 Control

R1 S034
	152.0225 Control

R1 S036
	152.5025 Control

R1 S039
       152.5175 Control

73 Eric

 

[DaveNF2G]

To translate Eric's R# S### numbers into the site numbers we've been using until now, they have to be combined. For example, R1 S012 is Site 112.

 

[EricCottrell]

Hello,

Going through the talkgroups I got the following groups.

R1 S005: 141, 142, 143
R1 S015: 121, 123, 172, 173

With unitrunker everything is together and it seems like information is missing.
142, 173, 211, 213, 221, 223

73 Eric

 

[DaveNF2G]

Having tried PRO96COM, UniTrunker, and the GRE scanners on this system, I think that PRO96COM is the best tool for analyzing it.

 

[EricCottrell]

Having tried PRO96COM, UniTrunker, and the GRE scanners on this system, I think that PRO96COM is the best tool for analyzing it.

Hello,

Thanks Dave.

One minor disappointment on the way back was the PSR-600 did not pick up any sites near Buffalo that are listed for the system like Lockport. I assume the sites in the 1000 range are gleened from the licenses and the western end is not built out yet.

I do not like the VHF Overload of the PSR-600 and the control channels being near paging frequencies does not help. I get the feeling I am missing signal captures. When I was out in the country I could actually turn off the attenuator a couple of times.

73 Eric

 

[DaveNF2G]

The licenses are almost completely uninformative about system frequency plans.

Part of the problem is that the Part 22 "channels" are actually blocks of frequencies. I have been unable to locate the paging block allocations in the FCC regs, although they must be there somewhere.

 

[d_strong]

Nyseg

I heard the NYSEG repeater today 153.620 P25 programmed as a conventional frequency with a BC785D.

 

[EricCottrell]

The licenses are almost completely uninformative about system frequency plans.

Part of the problem is that the Part 22 "channels" are actually blocks of frequencies. I have been unable to locate the paging block allocations in the FCC regs, although they must be there somewhere.

Hello,

If you go to the FCC auctions you can see the blocks and the winners of each block in the Auctions. It was Auction 40 and 48.
http://wireless.fcc.gov/auctions/data/bandplans/pagingLwrband.pdf

In another thread about NYSEG I posted the frequency blocks that NYSEG won in the auctions.
http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showpost.php?p=774141&postcount=19

Have the 1000 series sites been actually monitored? They seem mostly to be 153 MHz frequencies not involved in the auctions so I assume they are licensed to NYSEG for the system rather than won at auction.

73 Eric

 

[pro92b]

The system reportedly consists of 51 sites. From my own monitoring and reports I've seen, 35 sites are documented and all are in the 100 series. The bulk of the frequencies are 152 MHz with a few 151 and 153 in the mix.

You reported one site as 016 but it appears that was an error in Unitrunker because PRO96com reports it as 116 in the neighboring site list of site 105. The reported control channel frequency is 153.275 from your log as well as the site 105 neighboring site list.

I don't know where the 1000 series sites in the RR database came from, but those all appear to be wrong.

 

[Thunderbolt]

I don't know where the 1000 series sites in the RR database came from, but those all appear to be wrong.

They are place holders for sites that have not been confirmed yet. Once their real site number is confirmed, each 1000 series location can changed accordingly.

73s

Ron

 

[d_strong]

Nyseg

Does anyone know what type of trunking system is used by this system? I know it's APCO-25 Common Air Interface Exclusive system.