Operating from battery

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jazzboypro

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If you are in Laval, Quebec, then the exchange rate is going to hose you pretty bad. Most of us are in the U.S. so we're using US Dollars.

From the link you supplied, that looks like a janitorial supply place selling replacement batteries for a floor cleaning machine. That's going to be overly inflated pricing since it's directed at those that don't understand this stuff and are going to assume that they must use an OEM replacement battery.

I purchase my batteries from a few dealers down here that specialize in telecom battery systems. I'm usually seeing $200-$300 USD for 100ah batteries.

You need to find a local dealer that specializes in telecom system batteries. You may also have luck with companies that sell fire alarm systems, as they usually run 12 volt gel cells.

If you were local to me, I'd happily give you some of our gently used 12 volt batteries. I have enough sites that we usually do one or two a year. I used to give them to local ham operators, but most of those guys have disappeared.

You are correct i'm in Laval (Quebec) but you would be surprised how much i can save by buying in the USA even with the exchange rate (unless the rate is really bad). As an example if i was to buy an ICOM 7610 at RadioWorld (based in Toronto about a 5 hour drive from my place) i would pay 4712$ after adding the taxes. The same radio bought from DX Engineering would cost me 3800$ at today's exchange rate.
 

mmckenna

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You are correct i'm in Laval (Quebec) but you would be surprised how much i can save by buying in the USA even with the exchange rate (unless the rate is really bad). As an example if i was to buy an ICOM 7610 at RadioWorld (based in Toronto about a 5 hour drive from my place) i would pay 4712$ after adding the taxes. The same radio bought from DX Engineering would cost me 3800$ at today's exchange rate.

Yeah, I understand. I still have a lot of family up in Ottawa, Toronto and the Vancouver area.

If you want a new battery, check with one of the larger battery vendors. Avoid the places that cater to consumers (Batteries Plus, etc), as they tend to have really high prices. Find a place that caters to the communications industry, as they'll do enough business that the stock turnover is fast enough that they won't have old batteries sitting on the shelf. They'll also be able to get you better prices.

If you are OK with used, check with fire alarm companies, cable TV, telecoms, etc. Back before I went to the 20 year battery systems, I used to swap out batteries every year on a rotating schedule. I'd regularly have 20 or so 12v/100ah batteries that would be getting recycled. I used to happily give them to local hams/ham clubs. Our systems really babied the batteries, temperature controlled float charging, slow recharge rates, not a lot of deep discharges. The hams would usually get another 7-10 years out of the batteries I'd give them.
 

MUTNAV

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Hi, Just for a slightly different take, a lot of the advice given depends on your personal situation, for example if you use a lot of battery powered lawn tools (like Ryobi or Ego type) there are alternative arrangements.

https://egopowerplus.com/nexus-portable-power-station/ (pretty expensive at $1400 or so, but if you have the batteries already.... )

or from Home depot, adapters for Ryobi tools for their 40 volt or 18 volt batteries. Which wouldn't power anything past QRP, but if you have a bunch of batteries already available and charged, it might be something to think about.
The same week I was looking at what it would take to adapt my lawn equipment batteries to power other things, home depot started carrying these.


Alternatively, the cheap battery charger/starters from harbor freight are a pretty much self contained power / charger source. If you have something like this already, you've got a partial solution. The ones I have can have the battery replaced also, but their actual purpose for me is to jump start the car and fill the tires with air.

Another alternative is to learn how to use a hybrid car (if you have one) to power things in a home in an emergency.
 

jazzboypro

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Hi, Just for a slightly different take, a lot of the advice given depends on your personal situation, for example if you use a lot of battery powered lawn tools (like Ryobi or Ego type) there are alternative arrangements.

https://egopowerplus.com/nexus-portable-power-station/ (pretty expensive at $1400 or so, but if you have the batteries already.... )

or from Home depot, adapters for Ryobi tools for their 40 volt or 18 volt batteries. Which wouldn't power anything past QRP, but if you have a bunch of batteries already available and charged, it might be something to think about.
The same week I was looking at what it would take to adapt my lawn equipment batteries to power other things, home depot started carrying these.


Alternatively, the cheap battery charger/starters from harbor freight are a pretty much self contained power / charger source. If you have something like this already, you've got a partial solution. The ones I have can have the battery replaced also, but their actual purpose for me is to jump start the car and fill the tires with air.

Another alternative is to learn how to use a hybrid car (if you have one) to power things in a home in an emergency.

This is interesting however none of these situations applies to me apart from the fact that i do have an all electric vehicle
 

jazzboypro

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Yeah, I understand. I still have a lot of family up in Ottawa, Toronto and the Vancouver area.

If you want a new battery, check with one of the larger battery vendors. Avoid the places that cater to consumers (Batteries Plus, etc), as they tend to have really high prices. Find a place that caters to the communications industry, as they'll do enough business that the stock turnover is fast enough that they won't have old batteries sitting on the shelf. They'll also be able to get you better prices.

If you are OK with used, check with fire alarm companies, cable TV, telecoms, etc. Back before I went to the 20 year battery systems, I used to swap out batteries every year on a rotating schedule. I'd regularly have 20 or so 12v/100ah batteries that would be getting recycled. I used to happily give them to local hams/ham clubs. Our systems really babied the batteries, temperature controlled float charging, slow recharge rates, not a lot of deep discharges. The hams would usually get another 7-10 years out of the batteries I'd give them.

I've never been a fan of buying used stuff. I will try to locate a vendor nearby but i suspect that with many things it will be cheaper to buy from the USA.
 

vagrant

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I was at a Costco tonight and they have 12v deep cycle batteries for $89.99. They did not have any in stock and the guy said it has been at least three weeks since they had them. I'm unsure if supply is affecting every location. The warranty is 12 months. Anyways, FYI and call ahead to confirm what they have.
 

jazzboypro

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So, assuming that i'm using a dedicated battery charger, how would i automatically switch from the radio's power supply to the battery and vice versa when the main power comes back ?
 

AK9R

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This is one way, though I'm sure there are others:
 

jazzboypro

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This is one way, though I'm sure there are others:

That device is also a battery charger. Unless a can disable the battery charger function i don't think this device will work for me
 

mmckenna

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That device is also a battery charger. Unless a can disable the battery charger function i don't think this device will work for me

This handles the transition.

If you already have a 12 volt power supply, you don't need a separate charger, the device above will interface between the power supply, battery and load. It has diodes that allow the power supply to charge the battery. When the power fails, the battery will automatically feed power to the load. When power is restored, the power supply will take over, power the load, and recharge the battery.
 

prcguy

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Charging can be very specific depending on the battery type, like lead acid wanting around 14.2V to rapid charge then switching to about 13.8V to float. Does the batterysolver thing do that? If not you would have to be very careful what voltage you set the power supply at so you don't cook the battery.

This handles the transition.

If you already have a 12 volt power supply, you don't need a separate charger, the device above will interface between the power supply, battery and load. It has diodes that allow the power supply to charge the battery. When the power fails, the battery will automatically feed power to the load. When power is restored, the power supply will take over, power the load, and recharge the battery.
 

jazzboypro

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This handles the transition.

If you already have a 12 volt power supply, you don't need a separate charger, the device above will interface between the power supply, battery and load. It has diodes that allow the power supply to charge the battery. When the power fails, the battery will automatically feed power to the load. When power is restored, the power supply will take over, power the load, and recharge the battery.

I'm going lithium and my power supply is not adequate to charge that battery so it will be power supply and seperate charger for the battery. I need something that will switch between the two. The device needs to handle 30A continous.
 

prcguy

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After reading the manual on the battery solver thing, its only a couple of diodes and resistors and has no smarts. I would want something that properly charges the battery and also disconnects the battery when it gets to a critical voltage so you don't kill it. Most cheap solar chargers do this and you can get big current MPPT versions for under $20 on Ebay. I have a few of these and they work great.

Charging can be very specific depending on the battery type, like lead acid wanting around 14.2V to rapid charge then switching to about 13.8V to float. Does the batterysolver thing do that? If not you would have to be very careful what voltage you set the power supply at so you don't cook the battery.
 

prcguy

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I have a couple of these solar chargers and they have been working great for the last year and are really inexpensive. They have programmable parameters and will handle up to 60A, although mine have only seen about 30A and they will shut down if the battery gets too low. Not bad for $23 including shipping.
 

jazzboypro

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I am NOT looking for a charger. I am looking for a device that will switch to the battery when the main power goes down and when the power comes back it will switch back to the power supply leaving the charger to recharge the battery. Even though the technology is interesting i am not interested in a solar solution right now. Maybe what i'm looking for does not exist.
 

tweiss3

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I am NOT looking for a charger. I am looking for a device that will switch to the battery when the main power goes down and when the power comes back it will switch back to the power supply leaving the charger to recharge the battery. Even though the technology is interesting i am not interested in a solar solution right now. Maybe what i'm looking for does not exist.

Look at the photos. Your charger would input on the "solar" input. Battery goes to battery, and radio load would go to the "lights" out. That's about as close as you will get to an out of the box option.

You could build your own with two relays. One SPST normally open (off) and one SPST normally closed (on). Normally closed would go on the battery positive lead. Normally closed would go on your radio power supply positive lead. Daisy chain the power supply positive through the inputs of both relays, ground back to the power supply. When the power supply is on/powered, the battery is disconnected, and when that PS "fails" it disconnects the power supply power and allows the battery to flip on.
 

mmckenna

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After reading the manual on the battery solver thing, its only a couple of diodes and resistors and has no smarts. I would want something that properly charges the battery and also disconnects the battery when it gets to a critical voltage so you don't kill it. Most cheap solar chargers do this and you can get big current MPPT versions for under $20 on Ebay. I have a few of these and they work great.

My method is to set it up, then adjust the voltage on the power supply so the float voltage out of the diode block is correct.
 

MUTNAV

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Have you reviewed the various options on Amazon? They seem to have lots of things that may be suitable. A lot depends on your flexibility, does it have to support the Lithium chemistry? Does it have to NOT have a battery charger? Frankly the thread is getting a little confusing (and I'm not being a wise a$$ here.)

Just to clarify, what you want is something without a battery charger, can switch an external charger in and out of circuit without interruption, and can handle 30 amps (of battery draw), is that correct? If it is, the chemistry of the battery might not matter since it is just switching the battery vs. line power.

Thanks
Joel
 

prcguy

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A simple relay with 120v coil will do this. Years ago at repeater sites I had lead acid batteries, a smart battery charger and a DPDT 30A rated relay with 120v coil connected to the mains power. When the AC power was available the relay was energized putting the repeaters on power supplies and the battery charger was connected direct to the batteries. When AC power failed the relay switched the repeaters to battery and when power returned back to AC power and the battery charger lit back up and topped off the battery.

It was not very smart in that it could not disconnect the battery if the power was out for a long period and the battery was always at risk of damage but for supervised home use it should work fine.


I am NOT looking for a charger. I am looking for a device that will switch to the battery when the main power goes down and when the power comes back it will switch back to the power supply leaving the charger to recharge the battery. Even though the technology is interesting i am not interested in a solar solution right now. Maybe what i'm looking for does not exist.
 
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