Thanks. I would imagine they would need to keep the old VHF though for some things. If I remember right from when I dispatched in Orange County sometimes zone 1 or 3 units would float down to handle calls in border areas. So they would either need the Orange County radios too or have the Dispatcher repeat everything
Orange County P25 Trunked System on the air.....
- Thread starter APX8000
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tvengr
Well Known Member
Are you using ARC536 Basic or Pro? I have Basic and keep getting the message about a new version available. When I go to the Butel site, the latest version is Build 10, which I already have. The Build number may be mislabeled on the file.. I'll just stay with what I have and not take any chances. There is a Build 11 listed as available for Pro. I have seen them have update problems before where I updated Basic and suddenly it became Pro instead. I would suggest going back to Build 10.
VHF isn't going anywhere. SP Haverstraw cars still have VHF mobiles (they carry dual band APX 7000 portables), and the transmitter on Jackie Jones is still active.
Note that every trooper in Troop F is equipped with a portable radio capable of 700/800 MHz. The bulk are Harris, with the aforementioned exception of SP Haverstraw carrying APX 7000's. It stands to reason that all troop cars will be outfitted with 700/800 mobiles as well.
I tried both. Both Basic and Pro, both versions. No change. It will not load the new groups. I ended up downloading the data as an Excel file and cutting and pasting
Heard "tile" testing today on TG 10101. Everything sounded pretty good on my BCD436HP monitoring the North Zone.
chris45468
Newbie
can i ask what scanners you guys are using?
APX8000
Sarcastic Member
Sorry, I don’t put a list of toys in my signature line or “73”
Let’s just say I have a cache of APX8000s that I can play with.
Let’s just say I have a cache of APX8000s that I can play with.
APX8000
Sarcastic Member
Forgot to ask....what happened to EMS 3 ? Did someone forget how to count ?!?!?
I have a BCD 436 and 536 that I use for Orange County
Mike
chris45468
Newbie
hi mike.. i got myself the trx2 what a work out it been....chris
Any explanation with the Division names, what are the Fire Division 1-3?, If this is another word in place of Ops why not use name Fire Ops 1-3 and the Division Tacticals as Fire Tac 1-3. I mean why so special with the names? You go around the country a lot of counties make it basic and to the point.
Same goes with the EMS District 1 and so on, do you really think the average EMT and Medic knows who's District 5 or 3, like come on now.
Same goes with the EMS District 1 and so on, do you really think the average EMT and Medic knows who's District 5 or 3, like come on now.
APX8000
Sarcastic Member
MBK...I’ll check my files, I should have the breakdown of Battalions per Division and the EMS Districts. I think it’s way overkill with the way they did it. The extra RESP talkgroups are definitely needed if things get busy you can move traffic to another talkgroup. But all the Division and District talkgroups are probably going to get very limited usage. The County is still enforcing the one unit calls out, instead of every apparatus responding and the need for all those command channels has me scratching my head as well. I always like to use Palm Beach and Broward County, FL Fire as an example, since they both run Fire/Rescue (Fire and EMS calls). If you combine both Fire and EMS Response talkgroups for Orange (and if they are both going to be used full-time), that gives you 4 dispatch/response channels. Both of those Florida agencies have 4-6 dispatch/response talkgroups for their entire County and run hundreds of thousands more calls then Orange, and EVERY apparatus calls enroute, on-scene, etc and Command is done from those channels. They also both have 4 fireground/tac talkgroups that are run on the trunked system, including interior operations for the entire County which incidents can be moved to.
Orange uses UHF simplex Firegrounds and they have all these fancy Spec Ops, water supply, 3 FGs, 3 CMDs on simplex. Now we are making trunked talkgroups for divisions, command, TACs, etc. It’s way overkill. Plus most departments have their own UHF OPS repeaters. My point is, we are creating Fleetmaps with all these fancy channels for nothing. The other problem is, how many console positions are there. The last I checked at the 911 center, besides the call-takers, you had 2 police, 2 fire, 1 EMS and 1 Supervisor position staffed. You already have Police monitoring multiple frequency’s and talkgroups between VHF and EDACS which will change to multiple trunked talkgroups. So even if you start moving units to other talkgroups to split the traffic, you still only have the same manpower answering.
Orange uses UHF simplex Firegrounds and they have all these fancy Spec Ops, water supply, 3 FGs, 3 CMDs on simplex. Now we are making trunked talkgroups for divisions, command, TACs, etc. It’s way overkill. Plus most departments have their own UHF OPS repeaters. My point is, we are creating Fleetmaps with all these fancy channels for nothing. The other problem is, how many console positions are there. The last I checked at the 911 center, besides the call-takers, you had 2 police, 2 fire, 1 EMS and 1 Supervisor position staffed. You already have Police monitoring multiple frequency’s and talkgroups between VHF and EDACS which will change to multiple trunked talkgroups. So even if you start moving units to other talkgroups to split the traffic, you still only have the same manpower answering.
APX8000
Sarcastic Member
This is what I have:
EMS Districts
FIRE Divisions
I may be wrong with the Fire Divisons as 36-2 cover 6, 7 and 8 but 36-3 covers 4, 5 and 9 and 36-4 covers 1, 2 and 3. I know someone will jump in and confirm.
EMS Districts
| DISTRICT 1 | Greenville, Lenape, Port Jervis |
| DISTRICT 2 | New Windsor, Newburgh, Montgomery |
| DISTRICT 3 | Cornwall, Town of Highlands, West Point |
| DISTRICT 4 | Warwick, Florida, Greenwood Lake, Pine Island |
| DISTRICT 5 | Blooming Grove, Goshen, Chester |
| DISTRICT 6 | Woodbury, Monroe, Kiryas Joel, Tuxedo |
| DISTRICT 7 | Wallkill, Pine Bush |
FIRE Divisions
| DIVISION 1 | BATTALION 1, 2 AND 9 |
| DIVISION 2 | BATTALION 6, 7 AND 8 |
| DIVISION 3 | BATTALIONS 3, 4, AND 5 |
I may be wrong with the Fire Divisons as 36-2 cover 6, 7 and 8 but 36-3 covers 4, 5 and 9 and 36-4 covers 1, 2 and 3. I know someone will jump in and confirm.
APX8000
Sarcastic Member
Agreed. My point was more of having all these talkgroups but the same amount of staffing.
APX8000
Sarcastic Member
So I had the opportunity to do my own coverage testing on the new system. While I will say for Fire it will be much better than low band, there are definitely dead spots and areas with no bars but still a receivable signal. There is going to be some talk in problems as well, especially interior. And while I know the system is designed for on the street portable coverage, that was even lacking in areas. Since I know a lot of the dead spots with the current EDACS and VHF systems, I used it as a comparison. While Fire is still going to use the UHF 16 channel plan for interior ops (which they should), they should be ok for the most part. Command is normally run from the rear of the vehicle on a mobile and portable operations are relayed to command via UHF simplex. Good to go there. But my testing was mostly based on portable coverage.
I’d have to say that I’m a bit disappointed for Police and EMS. As you know, for PD it’s our lifeline. Most calls involve going inside a building to investigate an alarm or deal with a domestic situation. Portable coverage is not going to be any better than EDACS or VHF in certain areas, and in some worse. I can tell you Woodbury is going to suffer with Arden not on the air. For EMS, most members use portables. I know certain agencies that have their own dispatch like New Windsor, Woodbury, Cornwall, Warwick, etc. have VHF systems that will actually provide better coverage than the new trunked. Cornwall always had issues along 9W going up the mountain, 32 going south from 107 and up on Mineral Springs on EDACS. Cornwall EMS’s VHF system provides coverage in all these areas, on portable, from Snake Hill (where the County does not have a site). I can’t say the same about the new trunked system. So they may have to walk outside on a BLS call turned ALS to radio for a medic because their APX goes OOS. Or walk back to their vehicle on an MVA...oh wait, they only have portables. Same for PD...hate to be fighting with someone inside a residence and get that booooop that is the loudest thing in the world at that moment. For Woodbury as an example, go test inside the Commons where Arden blankets and I’ll bet Schunnemunk doesn’t get in as well. I actually made a comment on this forum about having Bull Hill as a backup...now that you don’t have Arden, what’s the next plan ? Or is there one ? Same with Monroe...PD has their repeater up on Bald Hill...no County site there and no Arden. Hopefully Southfields will get up that far with Schunnemunk as your primary. But in building ?
I will also point out that they are gong to have to allow agencies to utilize both simulcast sites. On 17K/300 I was getting blasted by Beacon on south and Cronomer on North on a Unication G5, so I could be on either one and good to go. But let’s take Cornwall again as an example...if you just put them on south, there are actually areas that Cronomer covers better than Beacon, especially along the Route 32 area going south and with the loss of Arden, they are going to need it. I routinely roamed over to North along that stretch until I was able to pick up Schunnemunk down towards Woodbury. Without north, I would have been OOS. I actually programmed each system separately as well in the G5 to test where I may have better coverage on North vs South. Town of Goshen as an example...plenty of areas where the Goshen site will cover on North but others where I’m looking at Schunnemunk and getting blasted on South. Same with Town of Montgomery. Several areas where Beacon and Schunnemunk on south will provide much better coverage than the site actually in Montgomery on North. Since the County wasn’t able to license certain frequencies at all sites and had to split it, you have to allow roaming. Greenville and Wallkill used to call 911 on the VHF Priority channel on Beacon instead of Graham because talk in was better. Arden EDACS slams into Wallkill in certain areas. See my point.
But I’m just a guy on a forum and the powers that be are the decision makers. Maybe someone will take my advice.
I’d have to say that I’m a bit disappointed for Police and EMS. As you know, for PD it’s our lifeline. Most calls involve going inside a building to investigate an alarm or deal with a domestic situation. Portable coverage is not going to be any better than EDACS or VHF in certain areas, and in some worse. I can tell you Woodbury is going to suffer with Arden not on the air. For EMS, most members use portables. I know certain agencies that have their own dispatch like New Windsor, Woodbury, Cornwall, Warwick, etc. have VHF systems that will actually provide better coverage than the new trunked. Cornwall always had issues along 9W going up the mountain, 32 going south from 107 and up on Mineral Springs on EDACS. Cornwall EMS’s VHF system provides coverage in all these areas, on portable, from Snake Hill (where the County does not have a site). I can’t say the same about the new trunked system. So they may have to walk outside on a BLS call turned ALS to radio for a medic because their APX goes OOS. Or walk back to their vehicle on an MVA...oh wait, they only have portables. Same for PD...hate to be fighting with someone inside a residence and get that booooop that is the loudest thing in the world at that moment. For Woodbury as an example, go test inside the Commons where Arden blankets and I’ll bet Schunnemunk doesn’t get in as well. I actually made a comment on this forum about having Bull Hill as a backup...now that you don’t have Arden, what’s the next plan ? Or is there one ? Same with Monroe...PD has their repeater up on Bald Hill...no County site there and no Arden. Hopefully Southfields will get up that far with Schunnemunk as your primary. But in building ?
I will also point out that they are gong to have to allow agencies to utilize both simulcast sites. On 17K/300 I was getting blasted by Beacon on south and Cronomer on North on a Unication G5, so I could be on either one and good to go. But let’s take Cornwall again as an example...if you just put them on south, there are actually areas that Cronomer covers better than Beacon, especially along the Route 32 area going south and with the loss of Arden, they are going to need it. I routinely roamed over to North along that stretch until I was able to pick up Schunnemunk down towards Woodbury. Without north, I would have been OOS. I actually programmed each system separately as well in the G5 to test where I may have better coverage on North vs South. Town of Goshen as an example...plenty of areas where the Goshen site will cover on North but others where I’m looking at Schunnemunk and getting blasted on South. Same with Town of Montgomery. Several areas where Beacon and Schunnemunk on south will provide much better coverage than the site actually in Montgomery on North. Since the County wasn’t able to license certain frequencies at all sites and had to split it, you have to allow roaming. Greenville and Wallkill used to call 911 on the VHF Priority channel on Beacon instead of Graham because talk in was better. Arden EDACS slams into Wallkill in certain areas. See my point.
But I’m just a guy on a forum and the powers that be are the decision makers. Maybe someone will take my advice.
This was just posted.
APX8000
Sarcastic Member
I think they are a bit confused about what is talk in vs. talk out.
Another question that was asked was if the County was going to multi-cast VHF paging on a talkgroup(s) on the new system. The answer was no. The APX supports talkgroup paging. Oh wait....capacity...those darn split cells.
Another question that was asked was if the County was going to multi-cast VHF paging on a talkgroup(s) on the new system. The answer was no. The APX supports talkgroup paging. Oh wait....capacity...those darn split cells.
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I was scanning this system today and talk group 10104 came up on the south tower
scanner immediately resumed scanning and talk group 10103 came up on the north tower
This was all one transmission
different talkgroup on each tower , for same transmission.
Comments ?
scanner immediately resumed scanning and talk group 10103 came up on the north tower
This was all one transmission
different talkgroup on each tower , for same transmission.
Comments ?
Last edited:
36-1 called 911 on TG 10104 at 14:11:18, then switched to TG 10103 and called 911 again approximately 20 seconds later.
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