Outdoor Antenna Recommendations

[CTWaters]

Phoenix FD most likely patches the analog conventional VHF-High A-deck channels to the RWC so that units responding from a ways off can monitor the fireground traffic while enroute.

It's unfortunate that they chose to encrypt those patches, rather than leave them open. I don't know what their reasoning is behind that decision.

John
Peoria

I don't understand that one either, sir. The Analog A-Deck's are wide open, and come in 5x5 when they are used and active here at my house now. I don't know why they would choose to Encrypt them, either. I know Mesa Fire's VHF Patches are not encrypted, so it makes no sense.

 

[CTWaters]

Thanks for the update. Depending on which obstacles might be in the path to transmitters, you may be able to receive more by getting your antenna higher off the ground.

I am hoping to get some more stuff to the East. I'm sure I will get more stuff to the West, and especially the North. The North would help tremendously with MCSO, which I hardly get any action here at my house in Glendale, even though I pick up White Tanks Simulcast for other P25I/II Simulcasts no problem. I get everything programmed on the SDS200 5x5 at the girlfriends house (I-17 & Jomax - Deer Valley / Norterra Area) primarily on the Anthem/New River Simulcasts, along with Far North Mountain, as I believe that is near quite a few of the repeaters for the multicasts.

As you can see from the below image (antenna.jpg), this is where the discone currently resides and works really well.



Where I want to move it, is either to the closest corner of the house, or the window that sticks out, just passed the A/C unit in the picture below (roofline.jpg).



I'm looking at a J-Mount to put it on. Something like the Antenna Directs' 18" or 40" mounts. I would like to be able to mount the Array for my new Ambient Weather WS-5000 unit on the top of the pipe, maybe about 3" or so above the top of the discone, but depending on how high either of those J-Mounts get the antenna up in the air, I may just have to throw it on it's own smaller, like 12" J-Mount, or whatever the short ones are that the old DirecTV dishes used.

Also, as you can see in the 2nd picture, there's a good size tree covering that side of my house towards the front, so I'm not worried about anyone saying anything about the antenna or weather Array. Driving around the neighborhood, I noticed some old DirecTV dishes mounted directly on the siding where I want to mount this, right on / near the front corner of the houses.

I don't know if anyone here uses Pro-Scan / Pro-Scan Client for listening to scanners, but I have mine online with Pro-Scan on the Remote SoIP Tab at "sds200westvalleyaz.ddsnet.org". The RSSI Graph will show folks who are a bit more versed at signal reception than I am, how well it comes in as the antenna is now. Everything comes in between -105 & -85'ish dBm, where at the G/F's house, it is more like -60dBm for everything. So I'm hoping, by raising and mounting the antenna, it'll get me closer to -50'ish dBm for everything.

Also, one last thing. When going through the programming on the SDS200, I removed Repeaters out of the Simulcasts that were just completely out of my area. For instance... MCSO has Queen Creek, Gila Bend, La Paz, etc. There's no way in Earth I can reach those. By doing that, it doesn't degrade any of the receiving capabilities of those Sites/Systems, does it? Since they Simulcast throughout the other repeater locations, that's just those amount of frequencies less that I would be able to lock in on, correct!?

Thanks again all for the help, guidance, and assistance. It is definitely much appreciated. I also appreciate the honest constructive criticism, etc.

 

[CTWaters]

With a rooftop antenna, you should have a decent chance of receiving at least RWC Simulcast H (Scottsdale), and *maybe* Simulcast F (Tempe). I'm doubtful of you being able to receive Simulcast C (Chandler/Maricopa), or the TOPAZ RWC Mesa Simulcast. However, only by installing an antenna will you know for sure, unless someone in the same general area has first hand experience.
I'm a few miles north of you, but I don't have an outdoor antenna.

John
Peoria

Most of the TOPAZ RWC I get is either popped from Shar Butte or Thompson Peak. I have Mesa in there just because of the outdoor antenna, but I don't think I've ever seen it stop on there. It would be nice to get, as I presume Gilbert, AJ, and Mesa PD all hit the Mesa Simulcast.

 

[p19997]

I removed Repeaters out of the Simulcasts that were just completely out of my area. For instance... MCSO has Queen Creek, Gila Bend, La Paz, etc. There's no way in Earth I can reach those. By doing that, it doesn't degrade any of the receiving capabilities of those Sites/Systems, does it?

Removing sites that you can't receive does not degrade anything.

 

[KB7MIB]

Removing sites that you can't receive will help speed up your scan speed from one favorite list to another, as the scanner won't spend time checking to see if those sites are within range.

If you're having issues with the White Tanks site, try the Phoenix simulcast. That site should have at least MCSO district 2, which is usually multi-selected with district 3, so you'll hear all of the west side traffic most if not all of the time.

John
Peoria

 

[CTWaters]

Removing sites that you can't receive will help speed up your scan speed from one favorite list to another, as the scanner won't spend time checking to see if those sites are within range.

If you're having issues with the White Tanks site, try the Phoenix simulcast. That site should have at least MCSO district 2, which is usually multi-selected with district 3, so you'll hear all of the west side traffic most if not all of the time.

John
Peoria

That's kind of what I was thinking, was it would just speed up the scan time.

I've for Anthem/New River, Northeast Mountain Simulcast, Phoenix Simulcast, Thompson Peak, and White Tanks all for MCSO. I removed Queen Creek from the list. Still at my house, don't really stop on MCSO, where at Christine's, it is always jumping. Especially yesterday.

 

[KB7MIB]

I have White Tanks, Thompson Peak, and the Phoenix simulcast, and my reception at home can be squirrely at times as well. I can see a clear TG pop-up, but it quickly disappears, then pop-up again, then disappears, etc. I don't have an outdoor antenna, however. Just the Radio Shack 800 MHz antenna on my SDS-100. I don't know if adjusting a setting in the scanner would help improve reception.

John
Peoria

 

[CTWaters]

I have White Tanks, Thompson Peak, and the Phoenix simulcast, and my reception at home can be squirrely at times as well. I can see a clear TG pop-up, but it quickly disappears, then pop-up again, then disappears, etc. I don't have an outdoor antenna, however. Just the Radio Shack 800 MHz antenna on my SDS-100. I don't know if adjusting a setting in the scanner would help improve reception.

John
Peoria

I see that quite often as well. I will see like for instance, Glendale PD A01 pop up on West Valley, then disappear. Then, it'll pop up again on Thompson Peak and disappear, then it'll pop up again really quick on White Tanks, stuff like that.

So I don't know if that's a setting in the scanner, or just reflective from the frequency.

 

[CTWaters]

So.. I ended up stopping to use the Discone. I was only able to get it up about 6' in the air at this time. Even with it 6' in the air, it honestly didn't do a lot of difference. What was really weird, was MCSO would not come in at all when using the Discone. I could get Car-2-Car no problem, and that was it. I've got the SDS100 & SDS200 using their stock antenna's, and have absolutely no problem from my house getting 98% of the West Valley.

What's weird is this... I can get Scottsdale PD off the Thompson Peak High repeaters (33.64422, -111.811186) here at my house in Glendale. However, when I go to the girlfriends house in North Phoenix (33.73822, -112.110440), neither scanner will get SPD at all, whatsoever. And she's a LOT closer to TPH repeaters than I am. Very rarely (like 1% of the time), does SPD come across anything other than that.

I presume SPD is "locked" in on X-Mitting that, just as Chandler (Simulcast C) and Tempe (Simulcast F) seem to be.

Only thing I can think of is something with the Sonoran Desert Preserve (due East of her house), and the TPH repeaters. It's just really strange.

The other thing I think is interesting, is RSSI strength at her house is maxed out on the meter (-60 / -50dBm), even on the repeaters I am closer to like Simulcast G: West Valley. That is on the roof of GRPSTC, which is literally down the street from me on Northern Avenue. For that one, at my house, I get anywhere from -100 to -87.

I may end up throwing the Discone on the patio rooftop at her house in a few months. That rooftop is about 10', and I'll mount it on a 40" mount, like I did her Ambient Weather WS-5000.

I'll look at throwing my BCD436HP up for sale here shortly since I am all dialed in now. That one has all the options installed on it, but no need to keep three scanners.

 

[KB7MIB]

Thompson Peak only carries Scottsdale North. Otherwise you want Simulcast H for both North and South.

Is there a cell tower within about 100-200 yards of your girlfriends home? I have issues with my own SDS-100 near some cell towers at 91st and Olive Aves, and 43rd and Northern Aves. Both are across the street from the Fry's food stores, and my reception drops when I'm in the parking lots.

John
Peoria

 

[CTWaters]

Thompson Peak only carries Scottsdale North. Otherwise you want Simulcast H for both North and South.

I have that in there as well. On all 3 of my scanners, For RWC, I have:

Far North Mountain, North Mountain High, Simulcasts A - D, F - H, and J, South Mountain High, Thompson Peak High, and White Tanks Regional Park. I have never heard anything on S/C H. My house is a bit too far to get that one (83rd & Glendale), and she is literally right on the Western Cusp of the repeater coverage.

Is there a cell tower within about 100-200 yards of your girlfriends home? I have issues with my own SDS-100 near some cell towers at 91st and Olive Aves, and 43rd and Northern Aves. Both are across the street from the Fry's food stores, and my reception drops when I'm in the parking lots.

Negative, sir. There's no cell towers within at least 1,000 yards, if not more. Biggest thing closest to her would be Deer Valley Airport, which is about 4 - 6 miles away.

 

[iMONITOR]

Those of you having antenna restrictions due to HOA's have you considered mounting an antenna on the rear slope of the roof? That upper area of the roof should not impede the performance of the antenna by much. Keeping the most noticable bulk (mount & mast) just below the line of sight with just the antenna itself peaking above the roof line will probably go unoticed. If necessary have everything below the line of sight from the front of the house. Especially if it's a Yagi design that's pointed away from the roof. Below are some examples that will give you the idea of what I'm talking about. My HOA president's opinion was... "Perfect!"

 

[es93546]

I've had a discone on my condo roof (HOA does not have a problem with rooftop antennas) for about 14 years. I am in California in a small town in a rural area. I want to hear CHP on low band up to listening to the state DOT and state parks, both on 800 MHz, however, my main interest is agencies that use VHF High. I find that discone antennas do equally poor on every band they cover. I've lost a great deal of coverage on VHF High. I've lost out on the state parks and DOT 800 MHz listening. Low band is only fair. It seems that the discone has poor performance on every band except low band. I'm going to replace the discone with a ham 2m/70cm antenna. I think low band will improve or at least, not get any worse. The 800 MHz sensitivity may get better. A full wave 800 MHz antenna is approximately 13." The ham antenna is closer to that length than the discone.

Discone antennas are very unsightly as well. I think the HOA will like the ham antennas better. Our roofs have a foil layer for insulation in them. They form a large ground plane I would love to take advantage of, but the HOA does not like the coax running down the roof so I'm at the side ot the roof where I have 3 antennas, one for the scanner, one for 2m/70cm ham and an 11 foot HF whip and all the coax is mounted on the end of the roof and right next to the HF whip runs through the wall using some PVC. This is the best place as snow is less of a factor on the side of the roof than on it. You don't have a snow factor, but I find the coax is less visible on the end of the roof and it is all painted the same color as the wood on the building.

The roof of our condo doesn't have a "back side" as both sides of the roof are fully visible to everyone. I can't try to hide my antennas. I presented my antennas plan about 20-25 years ago at the "all owners annual meeting." I sweetened the pot by telling everyone the service I could provide in case of a disaster. That seemed to make a difference and the owners at the meeting approved my plan with not one negative vote. The fact that I asked permission before putting anything on the roof made a difference as well. Sometimes the owners as a group can make better decisions than the board.

 

[KOK5CY]

I've had my tram 1410 up for some time and recently just decided to take it down because of low incoming signal when I receive 800 trunked on my bcd996p2 . so I decided to use a 1/4 wave vhf mobile antenna and it's receiving way better than I thought . I have it leaning in my bedroom window and perfect signal . Nearest 800 trunked tower is 13 miles away and have another 16 miles away .

 

[CTWaters]

I've had my tram 1410 up for some time and recently just decided to take it down because of low incoming signal when I receive 800 trunked on my bcd996p2 . so I decided to use a 1/4 wave vhf mobile antenna and it's receiving way better than I thought . I have it leaning in my bedroom window and perfect signal . Nearest 800 trunked tower is 13 miles away and have another 16 miles away .

Which antenna did you put up?

I've moved up to the Norterra area (I-17 & Jomax Road), and getting ready to throw that discone antenna up on the back patio rooftop.

If that one doesn't work all that great, I may throw it out and get something different. Where I'm at up here, 90% of all RWC comes in on Simulcast A & B only, and Anthem/New River for MCSO.

I've lost out on picking up pretty much everything else.

 

[n0doz]

Sorry, deleted.

 

[KB7MIB]

Which antenna did you put up?

I've moved up to the Norterra area (I-17 & Jomax Road), and getting ready to throw that discone antenna up on the back patio rooftop.

If that one doesn't work all that great, I may throw it out and get something different. Where I'm at up here, 90% of all RWC comes in on Simulcast A & B only, and Anthem/New River for MCSO.

I've lost out on picking up pretty much everything else.

I would think that you could pick up AZWINS on Shaw Butte and Thompson Peak, Maricopa County on Thompson Peak as well as Anthem/New River, and the RWC on Simulcasts A, B, and D (Anthem/New River), as well as the North Mtn and Thompson Peak sites.

And of course, Phoenix FD VHF-High and DPS UHF.

And before you throw out that discone if it doesn't perform to your expectations, offer it up for sale. Someone may very well be willing to buy it from you. You likely won't get back what you paid for it, but you should be able to get something for it, depending on its condition.
Then, look at antennas specifically for 700/800 MHz. Even an antenna designed for mobile use can be pressed into service as a base antenna.

John
Peoria

 

[Ubbe]

I've had my tram 1410 up for some time and recently just decided to take it down because of low incoming signal when I receive 800 trunked

If you look at a discones radiation diagram in the 900Mhz range you'll see that the main directions are at 60 and 120 degrees up in the sky. The signal are down by 15dB to the horizon and any other antenna type will receive much better. In many cases the small antenna at the back of the scanner will do better in that frequency band.

/Ubbe

 

[CTWaters]

I would think that you could pick up AZWINS on Shaw Butte and Thompson Peak, Maricopa County on Thompson Peak as well as Anthem/New River, and the RWC on Simulcasts A, B, and D (Anthem/New River), as well as the North Mtn and Thompson Peak sites.

You would think so Mr. John, right!? I've done a bit of segregation today and here's what I found...

AZWINS - Shaw Butte & South Mountain. These two rotate max RSSI strength when scanning. One time around, SB will show full RSSI, where SM will have nothing. Next time around, opposite, then next time around, they are both full RSSI, then the next go-round, nothing. For the most part, all I have on AZWINS is AZ DPT and AZ DOT Simulcasts. Both of which come in more reliably via Analog than Simulcast.

Speaking of Analog, DPS, Mesa Fire, and Rural Metro fire come in perfectly fine up here. Not the strongest signal in the world (about -100dBm), but I can hear them all.

For RWC, Legit only things I get are Simulcasts A & B up here. I would think D & H would be no problem, since Radio Reference shows where I am at is within the "Red Bubble", but nope.

And of course, Phoenix FD VHF-High and DPS UHF.

Believe it or not, PFD VHF-High, only thing I get is A1, and I don't hear anything other than Command on any of the A-Deck channels, unless they are like 2 or 3 blocks away.

And before you throw out that discone if it doesn't perform to your expectations, offer it up for sale. Someone may very well be willing to buy it from you. You likely won't get back what you paid for it, but you should be able to get something for it, depending on its condition.
Then, look at antennas specifically for 700/800 MHz. Even an antenna designed for mobile use can be pressed into service as a base antenna.

Yeah, it wasn't a huge investment at all. It was what - $40 @ HRO including Coax. I'm going to bring it over here from my house this upcoming week, and throw it on top of the back patio roof, about 15' in the air, on a 40" Mast like I have my Weather Station mounted to. It'll be on the South Facing side of the house, which is pretty much the direction of everything in one, way, shape, or form from where I am located at now. (33.73793044089136, -112.11048376885086).

Worst case scenario, I get an antenna specifically for 700-900, and possibly lose out on the Analog stuff. Best case scenario, what I am looking for will come in perfectly fine, and all I have to do is get about 150' of Coax to get in the house and to the SDS200.

 

[Ubbe]

Worst case scenario, I get an antenna specifically for 700-900

If you can sacrifice some performance in VHF then cut all discone elements down to half size. It will improve the 700-900MHz band as it will tilt the direction pattern more to the horizon in that band.

/Ubbe