PA State Police Struggle with OpenSky Issues

[HM1529]

So, it's budget season in PA. As a result, all the various state agencies have to come before the House and Senate appropriations committees to answer questions posed by legislators regarding the needs to the agency.

During the recent Senate appropriations committee hearing for the PA State Police, the PA-STARNET OpenSky system was mentioned several times in a less than flattering manner.

During questioning, Senator Ferlo asked Commissioner Noonan if tragic events that occur lead to changes in "best practices" and policy changes at the agency. He also asked if there were any incidents due to a lack of technology upgrades. Noonan responded that there are concerns with the statewide radio system because of deadspots around the state. Noonan stated that PSP has met with the Office of Administration (under which the radio project office is housed) to address coverage issues. Noonan also cited scanning issues with the radios because troopers can only monitor a maximum of three talkgroups (two priority channels and the channel the radio is parked on). This severely limits communications and interoperability potential. Noonan also cited problems related to being able to talk with local PD's easily and problems internal to PSP communicating air to ground. The issues talking with aircraft have been lingering for a long time and I was told last year that one potential resolution is the implementation of some type of 700MHz overlay specifically for air to ground comms. Not sure where that stands right now.
Noonan ended his commentary on this issue with a statement that cell phone coverage around the state is generally better than coverage for the statewide radio system. While I know there are coverage issues, I think this statement might be a bit sensational. Cell phone coverage is pretty bad in much of rural PA, depending on the carrier.

Senator Rafferty brought up the state radio system again and stated that he and Senator Pippy plan more hearings on the state of the system in coming months. He asked if PSP would provide additional testimony on issues they are having when those hearings occur. Noonan said they would. Noonan went on to talk about how PSP plans to maintain VHF until the narrowbanding deadline as an interop tool. I had previously heard they were going to permanently maintain limited VHF ability to talk to locals. Not sure what the correct info is on that issue. Noonan also stated that PSP understands a lot of money has been dumped into this system, but they want something that works and are open to any solutions...not beholden to 800mhz.
Rafferty also stated that we've gone through two governors and are now onto a third with no finished system to show. He said it was time to decide if this thing will work or if it needs to be dumped. By my count, it's actually three governors prior to Corbett (Ridge, short term Schweiker, and Rendell).

If my notes are right, the next senator to mention STARNET was Senator Mensch.He asked Noonan if we need to rethink they entire system architecture and, if so, would we look at better interfacing with local PD's? Noonan answered that the FCC is now pushing for public safety to migrate to 700MHz and that there is no statewide program for municipal PD's to operate on the same type of system as each other or the PSP. Mensch then commented that communications problems are historic in PA and it is problematic that they seem to be taking a closer look at this issue in such a tight budget year.

Frankly, I'm curious to see where all this goes since there seems to be more interest recently in the state of this system. How long have we been at this now? Since 1996? People complain about the silliest things that they think are a waste of taxpayer dollars. This is a shining example of a failure of government to get it right. I'm not knocking the people working on the project today, but the people who originally allowed this system to become the future of a statewide radio network in PA. I don't think any other state in the nation has taken more than a decade to roll out a new radio network. Anyone know otherwise?

 

[GTR8000]

It's a very sad state of affairs with this system. I am very glad that NY dropped OpenSky like a hot potato before burning countless of millions of dollars on a system that is simply flat out unreliable, and cannot deliver on most of its promises.

I listen to the PSP in Pike County all the time, which is quite a feat considering PSP Blooming Grove was officially switched over to STARNET some time ago. Naturally every transmission on VHF starts with "Blooming Grove to Blooming Grove 3 on A, I can't hear you on 800..." It's not just the barracks that can't pick up the mobiles, but the mobiles often call in on VHF stating they can't hear the barracks either. This doesn't just happen when they're responding to calls in the rural sections of the county, they're having trouble on 800 while patrolling I84 in the Milford/Westfall/Matamoras area at the NY border, which is the busiest section of the Interstate in the county. That's unacceptable that the engineers couldn't even get the coverage for the Interstate figured out, and transmitting on mobile radios no less.

I just ran a quick search of the ULS for YE licenses in Pike County, and for what it's worth there are 9 sites and 13 base frequencies licensed under 8 call signs within the county's borders.

As far as the interoperability issue, those VHF mobiles in the troop cars are really the only way they can communicate directly with local law enforcement in Pike County. None of the local agencies are on 800, they're all on VHF. That also includes the NYSP right on the other side of the river patrolling their side of I84, as well as the Port Jervis PD, and so on. To remove the VHF radios from the troop cars is asinine, you're taking away a very critical piece of equipment that might save a Trooper's life one day. And yes, I've heard the PSP operating on local law enforcement frequencies in the area, including the 155.475 national interop frequency.

I think just for kicks I'll start logging the PSP VHF frequencies, and will post some audio clips so people who swear the STARNET system works great can hear for themselves how many times in a single day they have to fall back onto VHF.

 

[Warthog1]

Dropping Open Sky is one of the few good decisions that NY has made.

 

[radioman2001]

I totally agree about New York, too bad because it looked great on paper but had a poor implementation. Other than the unmonitorablity it sounded like a good system if it could have been built right, with the exception in my opinion of using in car repeaters, build more sites and let the portable stand on it's own. I hope PA dumps it too that would give Harris/GE reason to stop marketing it. VHF is truely the interop band, because of the LEAA grants of the 70's over 90% of Public Safety radio is on it. Maybe another reassignment of TV frequencies is in order, take back channel 7 (174-180 mhz) and use that it's right above the existing VHF band. VHF trunking is killer, good coverage in the sticks and if done right the first time could solve about 90% of the interop problems. Then crosspatch VHF in cities that have 700/800 systems for interop. That's what the LEAA proposal suggested in the 70's with UHF.

 

[HM1529]

As far as interop with locals, other than using the VHF radios in some areas, the only options are for PSP units to find the county talkgroup in their radio (every county is assigned a talkgroup on the system for STARNET units to communicate directly to the county comm center) or use ITAC channels. After finding the talkgroup in the radio, the user would then have to hope that someone in the comm center is actually monitoring the state radio in the comm center (which I find unlikely in centers that have limited staffing). Depending on the county, there are several option at that point for setting up a patch between the county talkgroup and the pertinent ops frequency for the locals. Not a quick solution and, if everyone involved is not well versed in the steps, a solution that simply won't work. Use of the ITACs requires the user to turn the radio off and then back on in conventional mode and will only be of any help in areas where a county monitors the ITACs, which is certainly not all over PA.

I don't know if they still do it now, but PSP units in the local barracks used to carry portables for Montgomery County's trunked system in their cars for quick interop and to be able to monitor local incidents in neighboring jurisdictions.

 

[GTR8000]

I don't know if they still do it now, but PSP units in the local barracks used to carry portables for Montgomery County's trunked system in their cars for quick interop and to be able to monitor local incidents in neighboring jurisdictions.

If the state does wind up removing the VHF mobiles from the troop cars, my guess is that you'd see a lot of troopers heading over to eBay to find inexpensive portables they can use to stay in touch locally. Of course chances are pretty good those portables would either be modified ham gear, junk from China, or non-narrowband compliant. Definitely not a good solution, but who in good conscience could blame the troopers if they did just that?

 

[Steveradio]

Your looking at life and safety issues to begin with regarding radio systems. Your on a call say a domestic situation and your the first Trooper on scene the next car is maybe 15 min away if your lucky. Most communities in poconos have private security and was on scene with a Trooper numberous times were they were unable to connect to the system insode someones home. The trooper asked for my assistance to relay the information.

Kinda sad when your life is on the line going into a sitution not knowig if your portable radio is going to have a connection. Our radios fail from time to time as well and you get a busy beep but it recovers after a few seconds. The trooper kept trying and nothing...

These people making the calls need to think of safety when switching over to a system, your one Trooper going into who knows what, you want to be able to call for HELP when you need it!!

 

[nosoup4u]

I have noticed that the PSP out of Northampton County have all moved over to OpenSky, however I still hear them all the time on their Tac channels. They are also still using the VHF channes when they conduct the aircraft ops.

One would think that they would have Tac channels on the new radio system...maybe not?

 

[HM1529]

I have noticed that the PSP out of Northampton County have all moved over to OpenSky, however I still hear them all the time on their Tac channels. They are also still using the VHF channes when they conduct the aircraft ops.

One would think that they would have tac channels on the new radio system...maybe not?

There are plenty of tac channels on the new system. I'm not sure why some areas keep using the VHF tac channels. PSP Philly guys will use the VHF tac channels during construction zone work at night sometimes...probably just because they're not going to bother any body else, they're comfortable with the VHF, and they "know" it works or are at least more familiar with the good/bad areas.

Aircraft ops still happen on VHF a lot because of issues with the 800 radios in the helos. There have been ongoing problems with reliable air to ground comms and no solution has been figured out just yet. I was told once that the radios get wonky because there are too many available tower sites when you're in the air and the system can't figure out what to do.

 

[Steveradio]

I only herd the Open Sky system a few times and most Fern Ridge guys share a channel with Lehighton which makes sense. They have a TAC channel which was told is state wide since they were transporting from Fern Ridge down to Philly one day chatting the whole time.

Our problems are the high hills and valleys in Pocono area, still pick up TAC1 but M&M traffic is pretty much dead. I also remember seeing a few conventional 800mhz TAC frequencies used by PENNDOT but not sure if PSP has the same?

 

[HM1529]

I only herd the Open Sky system a few times and most Fern Ridge guys share a channel with Lehighton which makes sense. They have a TAC channel which was told is state wide since they were transporting from Fern Ridge down to Philly one day chatting the whole time.

Our problems are the high hills and valleys in Pocono area, still pick up TAC1 but M&M traffic is pretty much dead. I also remember seeing a few conventional 800mhz TAC frequencies used by PENNDOT but not sure if PSP has the same?

Every STARNET radio in the state has those conventional 800 channels (as well as the 800 ITACS). I've only ever heard PennDOT on them. It's not something you can just flip over to and then easily go back to the talkgroup. The radio needs to be turned off and then on again and booted into conventional mode...at least that is what I have been told. We have mobiles where I work, but I have not tried getting them to the conventional channels to see how cumbersome it is.

The way I understand the system, any talkgroup is theoretically statewide because the talkgroup will follow the units around who are dialed into it. So, the troopers running from up north down to Philly would just be dragging their local tac channel across various high and low profile tower sites as they moved south.

Based on the talkgroup layout for Troop G that PSP published in powerpoint presentations a few years back, every troop hase numerous tac channels...a few for troopwide use, a few for each barracks, more for special units, etc. I know one of the big things mentioned early on was the ability to talk from one end of the state to another. I've seen that in use with people talking portable to portable from Norristown to Harrisburg or eastern Schuylkill County to Harrisburg. In theory, people can be in Erie, Pittsburgh, Harrisburg, Philly, etc and all talk to each other on the same talkgroup, if needed.

 

[Packetpeeker]

700 Mhz

They're thinking about switching to 700, That is Funny!!

Wonder if they know about the white noise issues??

Or are they just looking to waste more taxpayer dollars, let's see, television moved to digital transmission (in the 800 band) cellular telephone as well as private and buisness radio operate in the 800 band, and hey let's put public safety on the 800 band also.

Ok, now that this has been achieved let's try to figure out why the public safety officials can't communicate??

Anyone with basic radio knowledge knows that 800 mhz wavelenght is poor inside structures not to mention does not penetrate foiliage well. PSP should have been set up on a trunked vhf system (which they already know works) with crossband switching at select locations so that they would have interop capability.

Sites could have been linked using ROIP on dedicated fiber optic with a two or three channel microwave link between sites as a backup to the fiber. It really makes one wonder who is engineering these systems.

 

[zerg901]

This article was posted 10/21/2009 to the sme2 and SonOfRcma lists at YahooGroups - you can find the entire article there. As of April 2011 - AFAIK - Mass State Police still do not have 800 Mhz trunking coverage in mountainous areas west of the Connecticut River. Work began on the system in 1991. Peter Sz

--------------------------------------------------------

The former director of communications for Massachusetts explains how
balancing technology, funding and political support paved the way for
the state's new radio system.

By Donald C. Nagle, Jr.

Special to Government Technology

Communication between agencies and organizations is critical

A lesson Massachusetts learned the hard way May 30, 1992, when Kristin
Lardner, an art student at Boston's Museum School, was shot on a
street in Boston. The killer, whose three-page rap sheet included
multiple agencies reporting probation violations -- but not to each
other -- shouldn't have been on the street.

"The system failed her in more ways than I can count," her father said
later [Government Technology, March 1996]. "She wasn't the same girl
he was on probation for beating up -- you only get sentenced for
robbing the same bank." So, while the killer played the justice system
to his advantage, the system made it easy.

The public-safety radio system is the latest step in one state's
response to a nationwide need.
|
Communications "Troops"
Deployed in Massachusetts

It was 1991 when Massachusetts began work on its first statewide
public-safety radio communications system. Today, the system delivers
portable, in-street coverage to approximately 95 percent of eastern
Massachusetts. By the year 2000, the system should be operational
statewide.

 

[zerg901]

I forgot to mention that the MBTA in Boston (the public transit authority) has been building their 800 Mhz TRS for many, many years now. It must be at least 10 years. I think they have migrated their buses onto the new system in 2011, but apparently the MBTA Police and the MBTA subways are still using their legacy UHF systems. Peter Sz

 

[brey1234]

Based on Ben's info here's the letter I sent

Senators:

I understand that you have questioned State Police Commissioner Noonan concerning the PSP Star Net system. Here are some facts you should know.

As a ham radio operator, licensed by the FCC, I have been following the radio system deployment. First the Open Sky system is NOT using the national standard for radio transmissions which is called Project 25. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_25 What does this mean for the state taxpayers? In my opinion, a lot. The Open Sky system is propriety. That means when it comes time to buy new radios or supporting equipment the purchase can NOT be put out to bid. Why? Only one radio company, Harris, has the patent on Open Sky. Getting back to Project 25. Lets say that local police departments decide to go to that digital format. They can bid on and then buy P25 radios from a variety of vendors, Motorola (Harris DOES make a p25 radio) Relm, GE, just about anyone. Under the current system that's like saying I have a radio and TV station. I will not be using the national standard to broadcast my programming. If you want to see/hear us you will have to buy the TV/radio set from us!

Another issue: Anyone who does not have an Open Sky radio WILL NOT be able to communicate with the system. (Pa has seen that as an issue and is deploying more repeater sites---in the 450 MHz range( basically an all NEW radio system, I.e.; More costs) and plans on using it's existing sites that use the national frequency of 155.475 MHz to "patch" existing radio systems in.

That may sound good on paper---but when you're involved in a high stress situation---you shouldn't be wasting time asking a dispatcher to "throw a patch" or telling local law enforcement to switch to the correct frequency. Right now in my area most Pa State Police cars, the "old" radio system has the capability of talking the local law enforcement by flicking a channel selector in the car and not having to depend on anyone else. That means most Troopers in my area can listen to local law enforcement to know what's going on around them.

One of the main potential problems is the so called "cell sites" that will be used. They are used to "fill in" dead spots that the tower sites can not reach. In Pa most of those cell sites are connected by phone lines! In bad weather if the phone lines are pulled down or receive such damage---the cell site is useless.

Pa's Open Sky system is 10 years behind schedule, as it was supposed to be online in 2001. The cost has risen from an original 179 million to 380 million. Also there is word that in coming years the State will be going to an Open Sky 2 format. My information is that thousands of new radios will have to be purchased.

Other jurisdictions have had problems with Open Sky. Lancaster County was thinking about deploying Open Sky and backed down because of system problems that were brought to the attention of the County Commissioners.
http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/304197

New York State went a step further, signed a contract then backed out because the parts of the system that were deployed failed.
http://urgentcomm.com/networks_and_systems/news/new-york-terminates-ma-com-contract-0115/

While some PA officials believe Open Sky is great, there have been reservations from the rank and file of State Troopers.
http://pasenategop.com/committees/transportation/2010/041910/Moore.pdf

Here are some links about news reports concerning Open Sky.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXFkYGsFJmM

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20101230/news/712319830/

http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-123010-open-sky-no-confidence,0,7728816.story

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/112082319.html

In closing I also reviewed the state documentation of how the bid for a whole new radio system was awarded and am hoping the State Auditor General investigates. An example: The state asked the prospective vendors to supply three OPERATING systems that each vendor had deployed. Ma/Com, which was bought out by Harris, put down Fed Ex twice and the third, the Orange County California Transit Authority. The problem: At the time the OCTA radio system was not OPERATING and the radios were not even installed in the buses.



Best Regards,

Bob Reynolds-WB3DYE
White Haven, Pa 18661

 

[brey1234]

no-confidence statement

Steuben County Sheriff Tim Troyer this month issued a no-confidence statement in the Harris Radio Public Safety and Professional Communication’s Open Sky Radio system, which went live in the county in February.
The statement was signed by nine other Steuben County emergency service professionals, including the county’s communications director, Cindy Snyder.
http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20110417/LOCAL07/304179912/1002/LOCAL

 

[K3HY]

Will all the kickback money go back to the Commonwealth?

 

[GTO_04]

Steuben County Sheriff Tim Troyer this month issued a no-confidence statement in the Harris Radio Public Safety and Professional Communication’s Open Sky Radio system, which went live in the county in February.
The statement was signed by nine other Steuben County emergency service professionals, including the county’s communications director, Cindy Snyder.
Sheriff squawking at Steuben radio service | The Journal Gazette | Fort Wayne, IN

And Harris had the nerve to point to PA as one of their "successful" systems in that article! But I guess that's the best they could do. They certainly couldn't use NY or Milwaukee as good examples could they?

GTO_04

 

[brey1234]

psp old freqs

Still hearing PSP using their VHF tac channels in Schuyl Co. Anyone know why with Open Sky sitting next to the "old" system?

 

[HM1529]

As far as interop with locals, other than using the VHF radios in some areas, the only options are for PSP units to find the county talkgroup in their radio (every county is assigned a talkgroup on the system for STARNET units to communicate directly to the county comm center) or use ITAC channels. After finding the talkgroup in the radio, the user would then have to hope that someone in the comm center is actually monitoring the state radio in the comm center (which I find unlikely in centers that have limited staffing). Depending on the county, there are several option at that point for setting up a patch between the county talkgroup and the pertinent ops frequency for the locals. Not a quick solution and, if everyone involved is not well versed in the steps, a solution that simply won't work. Use of the ITACs requires the user to turn the radio off and then back on in conventional mode and will only be of any help in areas where a county monitors the ITACs, which is certainly not all over PA.

I don't know if they still do it now, but PSP units in the local barracks used to carry portables for Montgomery County's trunked system in their cars for quick interop and to be able to monitor local incidents in neighboring jurisdictions.

Just to follow up, I have been told that PSP units are using the county talkgroups successfully in some areas to communicate directly with the county 911 centers. While these county talkgroups are, theoretically, available to all STARNET users, I am unclear just how many agencies actually have these talkgroups in their radios for comms with county centers. From what I'm hearing, it may just be PEMA and PSP. Anybody know different? Feel free to PM if you don't feel comfortable posting publicly.

Ben