PA State Police Struggle with OpenSky Issues

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HarrisRF

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Just to follow up, I have been told that PSP units are using the county talkgroups successfully in some areas to communicate directly with the county 911 centers. While these county talkgroups are, theoretically, available to all STARNET users, I am unclear just how many agencies actually have these talkgroups in their radios for comms with county centers. From what I'm hearing, it may just be PEMA and PSP. Anybody know different? Feel free to PM if you don't feel comfortable posting publicly.

Ben

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PEMA definetly does and PSP is getting there\should have interops with most if not all county 911 dispatch centers. Dept of Military and Veterans Affairs(DMVA) has an EDACS gateway into Lebanon County for Ft. Indiantown Gap fire/police interop comms.

Opensky radios only know what the network tells them. If PSP wants a field unit to have a certain talkgroup, then there is a change to STARNET and the trooper now can talk.
 

TheRover

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Opensky has caused huge problems in Milwaukee, Wi and is now causing big trouble in Aurora and Naperville, Illinois. Even the Fire Depts have been saddled with opensky in Naperville and Aurora.
 
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GTO_04

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Opensky has caused huge problems in Milwakee, Wi and is now causing big trouble in Aurora and Naperville, Illinois. Even the Fire Depts have been saddled with opensky in Naperville and Aurora.

Don't forget Steuben County, Indiana and of course Las Vegas. In Steuben County it is so bad they pulled the plug and went back to the old EDACS system.

GTO_04
 

902

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I have to say this carefully because it's easy to misinterpret what I've said and think I'm saying something else, but this is a sincere question -

I am not advocating OpenSky. I don't work for Harris (or M/A-Comm, or Ericsson, or General Electric, or any vendor). I have used OpenSky in a controlled environment (a demo) and, as a communications protocol, it, and the equipment that use it, seems to work (a little Nextel-sounding distorted, but that's just my impression). You speak into the radio, it goes into the system and comes out of another radio. As TDMA, for 2-slot, it's not much different than MOTOTRBO or TETRA for 4-slot. iDEN is also TDMA and it works (compressed and hard for me to make out, but it works). But there is obviously a problem. So, I have to ask - what is it about this system that "doesn't work?"

Is it a coverage problem? (Too few sites to do what it was intended - and, yes, I know they have a lot of sites and it cost a lot - if they had unlimited money, would putting in way more sites, like a cellular telephone company make it work reliably?)

Were corners cut where they should not have been? (Towers too low, site selection by convenience and not engineered, system under-spec'ed - yes, I know it cost a lot of money - did someone intentionally low-ball a very expensive bid in the hopes of dragging performance compliance out with optimization costs later? That seems to be a game some people play... and it never works well for the end-user... Did someone bid high and deliver low for a big mark-up? Something like that might be concurrent with a bidding "situation")

Is there some characteristic of the waveform that impairs its operation, while another waveform (like P25 or analog FM) would have worked just fine - all other things being equal?

Is this an inappropriate application of 800 MHz given the terrain? Something goofy like Rayleigh fading at 800 MHz coincides with the TDM framing rate? Would it have worked if it were implemented on VHF (like some other states are doing with their trunked systems) - or even on low band (yes, it's "technically" possible)?

I'm just wondering where the gap is here. Asking questions like these is valuable moving forward to help others avoid repeating what seems to be disastrous history. What I don't find helpful is "it doesn't work." Like they say to Harriet Jones, former Prime Minister - "Yes, we know..." But does anyone know exactly why? Something has to be able to pin down this failure.
 

GTR8000

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I have used OpenSky in a controlled environment (a demo) and, as a communications protocol, it, and the equipment that use it, seems to work (a little Nextel-sounding distorted, but that's just my impression).

I don't mean to be a jerk, but just because it "works" in a sterile laboratory environment doesn't mean it will work in the REAL WORLD...which is where we all actually operate. This is especially true on such a monstrous scale as a statewide system.

This is exactly part of the problem with these systems being shoved down our throats, because a few geeks and politicians are impressed with the glossy sales literature and "controlled environment" demos, so hey it must be the greatest thing since sliced bread! That "little" bit of Nextel-like distortion you speak of, that might be easy to overcome in a quiet office environment for desk jockeys to work through, but for us poor schmucks out on the street or in the cab of a noisy rig, that is usually a critical issue. In the heat of the moment, a missed or misunderstood transmission can be a very big deal indeed, possibly affecting life safety.

By the way as a footnote, as I type this I'm listening to both PSP Blooming Grove and PSP Swiftwater operating on the old VHF channels A and B, and the transmissions are prefaced by the all too sadly familiar "I can't hear you on 800..." :roll:


PS - 902, I'm not taking shots at you. I think you ask some valid questions regarding the failure of the system, specifically whether it's a protocol failure at the core, or largely an infrastructure failure. But this OpenSky system has a pretty horrific track record in public safety applications, leading one to question the validity of it being deployed as such in the first place. Remember, it was originally designed for FedEx, not cops and firefighters. It's also 15 year old technology at this point, but seemingly still full of "quirks" or bugs that could never quite be overcome in the real world.
 
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ff-medic

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Maybe another reassignment of TV frequencies is in order, take back channel 7 (174-180 mhz) and use that it's right above the existing VHF band. VHF trunking is killer, good .

Not meaing to be a "Smartazz" ; but what happens when 700 mhz gets crowded?

Narrowbanding?

If agencys licensed frequencys in a proper manner ; everyone on the same " Script " so to speak , alot of overcrowding would be eliminated. If the FCC policed licensing areas / locales , instead of giving agecnys what they want... overcrowding would not happen. Radio band fits the territory , location. the band don't get issued a radio license ; cause it wants a license for a particular band. Thats ridiculous. And I have witenessed ; like some of us have - agency admininstrators getting radio systems they neither need , nor will be effective for their area.

Where has low band gone? Since VHF-High , UHF and 800 - 900 MHZ came along is 30 to 50 MHZ abandoned? 30-50 ; gone...Why - it not in " Style " anymore.

Where has all the low band licensing gone since the upper bands have came about?

Part and agency / administrators problem ; partly FCC problem.

AES / DES encryption ; with some clear channels , in the small chance ; minute chance, as that something goes amiss with the encryption - to be able to at least talk in the clear during an emergency.

Do radio administrators not research radio systems and information? Do they not visit other areas using the radio system that they want to purchase to research and talk with others?

FF - Medic !!!
 

ff-medic

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Is this an inappropriate application of 800 MHz given the terrain? Something goofy like Rayleigh fading at 800 MHz coincides with the TDM framing rate? Would it have worked if it were implemented on VHF (like some other states are doing with their trunked systems) - or even on low band (yes, it's "technically" possible)?.

Good Questions?

FF - Medic !!!
 

902

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I don't mean to be a jerk, but just because it "works" in a sterile laboratory environment doesn't mean it will work in the REAL WORLD...which is where we all actually operate. This is especially true on such a monstrous scale as a statewide system.

This is exactly part of the problem with these systems being shoved down our throats, because a few geeks and politicians are impressed with the glossy sales literature and "controlled environment" demos, so hey it must be the greatest thing since sliced bread! That "little" bit of Nextel-like distortion you speak of, that might be easy to overcome in a quiet office environment for desk jockeys to work through, but for us poor schmucks out on the street or in the cab of a noisy rig, that is usually a critical issue. In the heat of the moment, a missed or misunderstood transmission can be a very big deal indeed, possibly affecting life safety.

By the way as a footnote, as I type this I'm listening to both PSP Blooming Grove and PSP Swiftwater operating on the old VHF channels A and B, and the transmissions are prefaced by the all too sadly familiar "I can't hear you on 800..." :roll:


PS - 902, I'm not taking shots at you. I think you ask some valid questions regarding the failure of the system, specifically whether it's a protocol failure at the core, or largely an infrastructure failure. But this OpenSky system has a pretty horrific track record in public safety applications, leading one to question the validity of it being deployed as such in the first place. Remember, it was originally designed for FedEx, not cops and firefighters. It's also 15 year old technology at this point, but seemingly still full of "quirks" or bugs that could never quite be overcome in the real world.
Oh, no, that's okay, I don't think you're taking shots at me or anyone. Not at all!

I agree with you on each of the points you touch on - especially about having anything but a clearly readable transmission being potentially disastrous in public safety. In a former job I retired from, a lot of public safety decision makers took to Nextels as an intercom. I had one, too. I could punch in their unit number in most cases and speak with them. That was handy, but in my view, it fell apart when there needed to be more than one person on the other end, not to mention that distortion issue. But after billions of dollars spent toward rebanding and getting a block of contiguous spectrum (which might have been Morgan O'Brien's plan once the interleaving proved toxic to incumbents) Sprint-Nextel is retiring iDEN.

The only thing I like about OpenSky is its ability to squeeze 4 conversations into a 25 kHz channel. If it worked well, you could take one 800 channel pair and have the effective throughput of an old stand-alone 5 channel PrivacyPlus or SmartNet trunked system. That makes spectrum consumption more efficient (Washington would love nothing more than to have public safety interests go away and put what we've used "inefficiently" [not my words] toward this big appetite for broadband). Other technologies that are here today (2 slot DMR - "MOTOTRBO" and NXDN, which were also developed for business/industrial users but have marketed their way into public safety environments - with some interesting and mixed results) are also more efficient but are essentially unmonitorable. The developers also thought out of the box and made a picocell-like site you could hang off a telephone pole inside coverage holes instead of putting up a big (and expensive) site.

So, yes, I'm wondering what's the disconnect between the sterile lab and the street. We had this with P25 and the IMBE vocoder, too - it sounded great under controlled conditions and didn't perform well in response to anything but speech (and that escaped the engineers, who apparently were clueless about the environments they were developing their products for). It's got to be something. And, I can't blame anyone but public safety itself if that compromise is known but hasn't made it out to peers yet. One can't fart in a car and gloss over the smell by sending in marketing and salespeople. If we can't walk away from OpenSky knowing exactly what happened and how to avoid it for the next technology, we're doomed to potentially reliving the failure with the next thing that comes along.

Keep in mind that we will see an avalanche of digital applications once the FCC makes a decision on D Block. Some Washington people want to see virtually all public safety operations vacate their spectrum and move so they could auction it and raise money (to their disappointment, there is no contiguous spectrum - they seemed to think it was). If so, communications becomes heavily infrastructure dependent and will rely on LTE as its transport medium with "radio" being an app on a computer. Thing is that it's still a one-to-one environment, who knows what the one-to-many function will be (multicasting in UDP is probably not public safety grade), and there does not appear to be a one-to-many tactical non-infrastructure dependent (read: simplex) mode considered.

@ff-medic - 700 MHz will not cure all that ails, especially in the areas that border urban centers. In most parts of the country the packing for narrowband 700 channels heavily favors population (the packing algorithm used population to determine channel allotments in the sort). The places that need relief spectrum likely only got a handful of channels, which they'd need to use multiplexing to use effectively. And, the propagation characteristics of 700 are much different than lower frequencies, costing more to deploy. But "da bomb" is 700 MHz narrowband voice is pregnant. In only 6 years, anyone who's built out something that's not 6.25 kHz equivalent efficiency (1 voice path in a 6.25 kHz channelspace or less) will have to turn off. So, P25 Phase 1 operation will only be allowed on the mutual aid channels. The other stuff has to be "narrowbanded." That makes investing in a 700 system with readily available technology undesirable to running after bands that don't (currently) have any such requirement. Most places that built out in Phase 1 were locked out of having any available 800 channels and were desperate for whatever resources they could get, or were able to rationalize an accelerated depreciation on their current assets. As for broadband deployment, that remains to be seen. Cellular carriers use a revenue-based model to determine where to put their sites (ROI). Yet we see disasters in places where there are no robust communications. If a "benevolent" third party (read: vendor or contractor) runs this, who decides where to cover (and how much would that cost above paying a recurring radio bill)? And we see disasters undo the most robust of networks... but I think I'm preaching to the choir. :)

Sorry. I'm just frustrated. I don't have answers, either.
 

HM1529

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Since this thread has been made a sticky by someone, I'll add this post from another thread to here:

4/27/11 PA Senate Hearing on PA-STARNet

Here's a link to info from the PA Senate hearing held this week on PA-STARNet.
You can get audio, video, or written testimony from the hearing here:

Pennsylvania Senate Transportation Committee

Also, there was a story in Thursday's Harrisburg Patriot News about the hearing:

Costly Pa. radio system for law enforcement agencies isn't working as planned | PennLive.com
 

brey1234

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A quick revew of the testimony

Some problems using portable radios stem from the fact that PA-STARNet was designed for mobile radio coverage, not portable.
http://pasenategop.com/committees/transportation/2011/042711/white.pdf

From time to time, there have been outages. The PSP has been fortunate because it has retained its former VHF radio system as a back up and that system has helped during these occasions. The Department will eventually lose that VHF system which currently serves as a backup safety net, as a result of FCC narrow banding requirements that take effect on January 1, 2013.
http://pasenategop.com/committees/transportation/2011/042711/snyder.pdf

Then there are concerns over the radio systems failure by the Attorney Generals Office.
http://pasenategop.com/committees/transportation/2011/042711/wheeler.pdf
 

902

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Thank you, Bob. That was good, informative reading.

If the system is designed for mobile coverage and they're having portable issues, they've brought this on themselves by mis-applying the technology. I can't say, then, that it's OpenSky's "fault" but more conscious choices in under-spec'ing a system to get "something." It's like buying a car without a spare tire, then getting a flat in a rural area and cursing the car for having a flat and being stuck. Still, I suppose there is responsibility on all levels for users, administrators, and manufacturers to say, "look, I don't think this will work the way you want it to." I don't think the original set of players from inception is even involved anymore. Someone should have pushed the button well beforehand instead of just using an accepted inadequacy as a foot-in-the-door. They would have had a problem using portables with P25, TETRA, MOTOTRBO, or even analog on 800 if it were spec'ed to accept power levels you would see from mobile radios.

I've seen a lot of Pennsylvania licenses come through with 11K2 emissions added, so they're at least beginning to materially comply with narrowbanding. They are also applying for several new VHF pairs in many places, so I think they are beginning to move in some regions in terms of narrowbanding, although they could be for other state agencies.
 

Packetpeeker

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800 system

Just my 2 cents.

It seems like someone is reinventing the wheel, One has to wonder who in their LIMITED KNOWLEDGE ever was able to convince municipalities to go to an 800 system with poor wave propagation, knowing that the 800mhz signal does not penetrate foliage well, does not penetrate buildings well, and has a very limited line of site range, has the potential to be interfered with by cellular telephone, other business communications in the 800 band and now most television stations are broadcast in guess what, the 800 band.

Now they want to put everything on 700 mhz band which is suseptable to white noise problems, why not just put public safety on the 500 band, better wave propagation, it can be trunked, analog or digital, p25, it would all work, fewer towers needed.

As for PSP, as a communications design engineer I would have suggested giving them more vhf channels, trunking the vhf system to make efficient use of it and creating a group with crossband switching to enable communications with users on the 800 band for interoperability.

They already knew that the vhf system worked, why change it?

The failsoft mode should have been set up to fail back to the original vhf simplex channels that the barracks use, this way there is always a path of communication even in a major controller failure.
 

GTR8000

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and now most television stations are broadcast in guess what, the 800 band.

That's the second time in this thread you've made that statement, and it's absolutely incorrect. The 800 MHz band (TV channels 70-83) were reallocated to LMRS in 1982, and the 700 MHz band (TV channels 52-69) were reallocated to LMRS in 2009.

The 500 MHz band, which you propose everything move to, is already in use by TV broadcasting.

Seems like you've got your facts backwards.
 

thomasfd13

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This may be a little off topic or just a stupid question on my behalf but...

I know there are ups and downs to digital systems and it seems to me that the cons outweigh the pros on may systems. Digital requires such robust infastructure to operate at its highest potential and a lot of places don't have this in place due to many factors. Digital also is either going to x-mit or not if it is connected to a system. At least with analog there is a chance that the squelch opening could get the attention of someone in an emergency situation. I know that some of the problems are in the system maker but if money is being dumped into a system that is known to have problems why keep hoping a patch of the system would work?

Another question that I have had for awhile is why does everyone need/want to go digital anyways? If the traffic is that critical that it needs to be encrypted that is one thing but that can also be done on an analog system as well without having to rebuild a system already in place. Most systems may use a trunking system for the space and consolidation of freqs but most of these chans never get used. To me it makes little sense to have upwards of 500 TG's when if the only time they would be used is during the world ending.

It may just be me but I think a vast majority of systems were sold as a "bill of goods" because someone said they needed it. Here in NC we have our statewide system that works but has some issues in operation. NCSHP and smaller jursidictions use the VIPER system but most have their own system in place. In my county we use a 800MhZ MOT Trunk system due to there being multiple agencies within the county and this allows MA to be streamlined. However neighboring counties may be on a conventional system and the communications are hindered. Communication is a key element on scene and it makes little sense sometimes that in a emergency situation; I could use one of my radios and talk with one agency while others could not with theirs because of systems. This makes some services carry multiple radios to ensure they can communicate.

So with digital being the present and future should we think about having a true inter operation system? Look at what the hams do a lot with linking of repeaters. each can be a stand alone system but can also be linked to cover a wide area if needed/wanted. In a casual conversation with some people we played the what if a nuke or EMP hit? Digital communications most likely would at the least disrupt if not destroy a system but an analog system would most likely not be as effected by this.

So is digital and these high dollar systems the best way to go in critical comm systems or is it just something that we can just say we have? It seems to me that yes, there is a need to expand the ability to have more freqs to use but the same could be done on a less expensive, more reliable system that does the same thing. Please enlighten me some more on this so I can be more knowledgeable and possibly re-evaluate my thoughts on something to me seems like a waste of tax payers dollars.
 

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Just my 2 cents.

It seems like someone is reinventing the wheel, One has to wonder who in their LIMITED KNOWLEDGE ever was able to convince municipalities to go to an 800 system with poor wave propagation, knowing that the 800mhz signal does not penetrate foliage well, does not penetrate buildings well, and has a very limited line of site range, has the potential to be interfered with by cellular telephone, other business communications in the 800 band and now most television stations are broadcast in guess what, the 800 band.

Now they want to put everything on 700 mhz band which is suseptable to white noise problems, why not just put public safety on the 500 band, better wave propagation, it can be trunked, analog or digital, p25, it would all work, fewer towers needed.

As for PSP, as a communications design engineer I would have suggested giving them more vhf channels, trunking the vhf system to make efficient use of it and creating a group with crossband switching to enable communications with users on the 800 band for interoperability.

They already knew that the vhf system worked, why change it?

The failsoft mode should have been set up to fail back to the original vhf simplex channels that the barracks use, this way there is always a path of communication even in a major controller failure.

Well, you're not far off, but there are some major issues with building wide-area systems that have capacity requirements. TV still can be on channels 2-13 (54-216 MHz), but most of it has been moved to a UHF "digital home" that's somewhere between 512 to 680 MHz. Land mobile has "T-Band" allotments in 11 markets (based on 70's Census data) and was extended and waivered into various places since. All of those were into areas which already qualified for T-Band channels, but had nothing available. TV doesn't operate on 800 anymore. But TV is a powerful lobby to be reckoned with. The broadcasters have a very powerful (pun intended) lobby with Congress and sometimes make the statement that public safety doesn't make good use of whatever spectrum it does have ("wireless" says the same thing).

I can think of several reasons to build out statewide on 800 rather than VHF. First, their NPSPAC RPCs have made the provision for channels allotted to "statewide" use. 700 MHz had a statewide block automatically, but every state has the same block, so usage has to be coordinated between states. VHF, not so much. You have what you have, and can gain more channels with concurrences and with offering existing systems a "ride" on the new system, but if they don't agree, you can't use the frequency; trunking requires exclusivity (and trunking IS more efficient than conventional). A lesser number of sites because of propagation characteristics was absolutely the motivator for some statewide VHF trunking projects further west. But PA has heavy VHF usage on at least two of her boundaries. NJ and NYS would be heavily affected by prospective PA trunking and mitigation measures (special antennas restricting radiation patterns, site placement looking at interference avoidance rather than coverage) might cost as much as deploying a higher-frequency system. The propagation characteristics of higher frequencies make it a little easier to reuse the frequencies.

We shouldn't confuse digital with trunking or 700/800. The biggest advantage of digital communication is to allow multiple conversations to be squeezed into the space that one analog signal occupied, effectively giving the user two or more channels where they only had one. Or, creating more open channels by using better filtering techniques and allowing closer re-use. Yes, it sucks for scanning, because you need a special scanner - or the format can't be received on a scanner (the more we want to move toward a standard, the further we seem to get).

Ham linked systems are nifty but impractical from a frequency usage standpoint (I am a ham, btw). The same conversation can tie up dozens of channel pairs over thousands of square miles. It's great in concept, but would be so much better IF it were simulcast on one output frequency and used a voting comparator for the input. Linked system with a different channel at each site = meh. Linked system with the same input and output frequency over tens of thousands of square miles = impressive. The Garden State Parkway 6 meter system that Glenn, WB2MAZ, ran (covered from Cape May to Rockland County using only two hop-scotching output frequencies to avoid heterodyne in the overlap areas and one continuously voted input frequency) was impressive.

The other thing that should be looked at is network connectivity. One of the hidden expenses I've noticed in PSP's systems are its microwave backbone. Regardless of whether the system is VHF, UHF, or 800, the system needs to be connected somehow. This kind of thing can carry voice, data, and video, so it's a pretty good investment - and it doesn't care if the radio tied to it is on 852 and digital or on 33.86 and analog. In other words, they needed this system whether it was VHF P25 or 800 OpenSky. Looking at very large systems, this network could be the weakest link, especially if there isn't diversity in how the system is configured (you would HAVE TO spend more to make things like self-healing loops and divergent routing - and that's more money, but much improved resiliency). The advantage is that this part could reach a break-even point where the expense is less than leasing control circuits (disaggregated one line here, one line there with mileage costs) from the telephone company.

As for failing to VHF (or relying on 800 in some places and VHF in others), newer multiband radio equipment has something similar in capability. NY's SWN was going to do a mixed 800/VHF deployment, but it never came to fruition. Look to Missouri for doing something just like this with 800 MHz in the St. Louis and Kansas City areas and VHF throughout the interior - but those VHF channels are still very hard to come by.

As for a lot of talkgroups - think of them as virtual channels that can be had without putting in any new radio infrastructure. Say I manage a radio system for a county. Animal control needs a radio system. Without trunking, I have to buy a repeater, put in receivers, maybe a second repeater because you can't cover everywhere with one site, and "take" two frequencies (yeah, right) - which go dead after 1700 hrs until the next morning. With trunking, they buy subscriber units, I sit down at the computer, turn on their talkgroup, set their priority relative to other uses and they're good - without ever needing more frequencies or putting in more sites. From a systems management perspective, this is a very good thing.
 

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Your comment, "The biggest advantage of digital communication is to allow multiple conversations to be squeezed into the space that one analog signal occupied, effectively giving the user two or more channels where they only had one.", unfortunately is not true of P25 Phase 1.

P25 Phase 1 is 12.5 khz (narrowband), no different than narrowband analog FM. So agencies switching to P25 Phase 1 aren't getting any more, in terms of frequency spectrum, than what they would have with narrowband analog FM. On the other hand, P25 Phase 2 will be dual time slot TDMA, and so will give two talk paths per 12.5 khz channel (just like MOTOTRBO), and will thus be 'spectrally efficient' as compared to P25 Phase 1.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma



We shouldn't confuse digital with trunking or 700/800. The biggest advantage of digital communication is to allow multiple conversations to be squeezed into the space that one analog signal occupied, effectively giving the user two or more channels where they only had one. Or, creating more open channels by using better filtering techniques and allowing closer re-use. Yes, it sucks for scanning, because you need a special scanner - or the format can't be received on a scanner (the more we want to move toward a standard, the further we seem to get).
 

JRayfield

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I operated 800 mhz trunking systems for about 16 years and found that 800 mhz penetrates buildings MUCH better than VHF and still better than UHF. That's one of the reasons why 800 mhz and 900 mhz have been used in larger metropolitan areas, where there are lots of large buildings.

Also, the noise floor is much lower at 800 mhz as compared to UHF and VHF, making it easier to use high-gain amplifiers on repeater receivers. This can help give very good portable talk-back range into 800 mhz repeaters, as compared to lower frequencies (especially VHF), in more heavily populated areas (where the noise floor on VHF can be extremely high and render portables almost unusable.).

There's very little business communications left using the 800 mhz bands. Most of those frequencies were sold to Nextel.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

Just my 2 cents.

It seems like someone is reinventing the wheel, One has to wonder who in their LIMITED KNOWLEDGE ever was able to convince municipalities to go to an 800 system with poor wave propagation, knowing that the 800mhz signal does not penetrate foliage well, does not penetrate buildings well, and has a very limited line of site range, has the potential to be interfered with by cellular telephone, other business communications in the 800 band and now most television stations are broadcast in guess what, the 800 band.

Now they want to put everything on 700 mhz band which is suseptable to white noise problems, why not just put public safety on the 500 band, better wave propagation, it can be trunked, analog or digital, p25, it would all work, fewer towers needed.

As for PSP, as a communications design engineer I would have suggested giving them more vhf channels, trunking the vhf system to make efficient use of it and creating a group with crossband switching to enable communications with users on the 800 band for interoperability.

They already knew that the vhf system worked, why change it?

The failsoft mode should have been set up to fail back to the original vhf simplex channels that the barracks use, this way there is always a path of communication even in a major controller failure.
 

JRayfield

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Just a short comment...

While I see a technically 'no-so-correct' comment every once in a while, all of you are asking some really good questions, in my opinion. Keep it up....keep asking and keep learning.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
 

GTR8000

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Just a short comment...

While I see a technically 'no-so-correct' comment every once in a while, all of you are asking some really good questions, in my opinion. Keep it up....keep asking and keep learning.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

I saw your username as the last poster and thought for sure I was going to find an advertisement or sales pitch for MOTOTRBO after opening the thread. You did manage to drop the name once, but in a rather inconspicuous way as compared with the rest of your posts. :eek: :twisted: :lol:
 
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