PA State Police Struggle with OpenSky Issues

[Septa3371CSX1]

Testing of the new system is supposed to start here
in NW PA this year. Last I heard it might be late summer.

That was supposed to occur last year but things got delayed.

As for the conventional PSP frequencies they are primarily used as a back up when troopers run into dead zones on the Open Scam system. Other users here have reported that the best time to hear stuff on the VHF channel is around the beginning of each shift when they test the VHF radios.

 

[patrauma_nurse]

so, what will be the final system PSP will be using (like P25 or what) and when do we expect it to be inservice?

 

[scnrfrq]

so, what will be the final system PSP will be using (like P25 or what) and when do we expect it to be inservice?

My understanding is it will be a P25 VHF system, as they already have listed some of the new VHF frequencies, at least for NW PA. With testing just starting later this year here, and funding, etc., I'd look for at least 2 more years. As far as DCNR, it's not known what they will do.

There is more discussion on this topic on the PA 700 MHZ thread in this forum..

 

[Septa3371CSX1]

My understanding is it will be a P25 VHF system, as they already have listed some of the new VHF frequencies, at least for NW PA. With testing just starting later this year here, and funding, etc., I'd look for at least 2 more years. As far as DCNR, it's not known what they will do.

There is more discussion on this topic on the PA 700 MHZ thread in this forum..

Going to be at least 5 years before PSP and other state agencies currently using Open Scam move to the new P25 system. It will be a mix of VHF and 7/800 with the latter being used in the more populated areas (i.e. Philly) and the VHF being used in the more rural areas.

 

[scnrfrq]

Going to be at least 5 years before PSP and other state agencies currently using Open Scam move to the new P25 system. It will be a mix of VHF and 7/800 with the latter being used in the more populated areas (i.e. Philly) and the VHF being used in the more rural areas.

Will this be a Phase II P25 system?

 

[Septa3371CSX1]

Will this be a Phase II P25 system?

Yes, all new P25 systems being built out these days are Phase 2 capable. Being this system will need to use a limited resource of frequencies in all three bands (VHF, 700 and 800) I would expect the whole thing to be fully Phase 2 from the start.

 

[W3DMV]

Artical today in Penn Live
After sinking $810 million into failed radio system, senators look for guarantee new system will work | PennLive.com

 

[phillydjdan]

I love how the crooked politicians expect the system vendors to offer a money back guarantee lol.

And I might add: this is like buying the cheapest Walmart TV and *****ing that it broke in 2 years. Buy a Samsung for a couple hundred more bucks and enjoy it for 10 or 15 years. This isn't rocket science people...

 

[bfperez]

Artical today in Penn Live
After sinking $810 million into failed radio system, senators look for guarantee new system will work | PennLive.com

I wonder how many boats, snazzy cars, and top notch vacations were covered by the commissions and sales incentives during this project.

Harris makes Motorola look saintly.

 

[phillydjdan]

I also might add that I recently was in Michigan, where they have a statewide P25 system. Worked flawlessly on my portable radio while I was there. No reception issues that I was aware of.

 

[wa3bxw]

PA. Statewide radio system

Way back when this "Statewide" radio system was proposed to operate on 800 Mhz. I laughed when the number of tower sites that were first proposed (for statewide coverage) was mentioned, here we are 20 some years later and now a VHF overlay system is being proposed, they need additional money for more tower sites. The mention of P25, which is presently a 2 slot TDMA system, also is laughable since the Open Sky system is a similar 4 slot TDMA system, and has coverage issues due to lack of adequate signal trying to utilize TDMA technology. PA. is a very large state, with dense terrain in some of the areas, and "canyons" of buildings in the most populous areas, so it's going to be interesting to see what wins in the end. At least New York state didn't drop money into the "black hole" for 20 years until legislators started asking questions.

 

[scnrfrq]

Artical today in Penn Live
After sinking $810 million into failed radio system, senators look for guarantee new system will work | PennLive.com

I'm a little confused. I thought the new P25 was a done deal, since they are testing in Warren and Erie Counties this year, and then implementing it?? What did I miss?

 

[krokus]

I also might add that I recently was in Michigan, where they have a statewide P25 system. Worked flawlessly on my portable radio while I was there. No reception issues that I was aware of.

There are a few issues, primarily in large buildings, and remote areas. (Many counties have supplemented the state towers, so some areas have simulcast problems.) The system was designed to have statewide 97% mobile coverage, which it seems to meet, if not exceed.

Sent via Tapatalk

 

[krokus]

Way back when this "Statewide" radio system was proposed to operate on 800 Mhz. I laughed when the number of tower sites that were first proposed (for statewide coverage) was mentioned, here we are 20 some years later and now a VHF overlay system is being proposed, they need additional money for more tower sites. The mention of P25, which is presently a 2 slot TDMA system, also is laughable since the Open Sky system is a similar 4 slot TDMA system, and has coverage issues due to lack of adequate signal trying to utilize TDMA technology. PA. is a very large state, with dense terrain in some of the areas, and "canyons" of buildings in the most populous areas, so it's going to be interesting to see what wins in the end. At least New York state didn't drop money into the "black hole" for 20 years until legislators started asking questions.

Using VHF, instead of 800 MHz, will make a major difference.

Sent via Tapatalk

 

[talviar]

Using VHF, instead of 800 MHz, will make a major difference.

Sent via Tapatalk

Yeah. . . . . . .I hear that all the time. . . . Try getting VHF coordinated on a mountain top location where you *CAN* get good coverage and get an ERP that actually makes things usable to portables. . . . . Most of the mountain top sites here in my county for VHF Trunking would be granted licenses for around 12-20 Watts ERP. The base stations used prior on VHF for comparison were running 100-125 watts out and ERP around 400+ watts.

For comparison- The ICORRS Radio system running in Armstrong, Indiana, Westmoreland, Fayette and Somerset County is running a "portable in the street" coverage radio system on 800 MHz and have no issues covering our counties with some very rugged varying terrain.

Fayette has a large mountain running N to S dividing the county in to 2 chunks. Eastern 1/3 is very mountainous terrain varying in elevations between 900' in the river valleys to 3000' at the mountain tops. Western 2/3 is very rolling valley with elevations varying between 600 and 1500' elevation and very sharp roll offs along the river valley on the western side of the county. We use 7 tower sites for HT portable coverage- vs the State Opensky system that has conservatively 10-12 high profile and fill in sites that have difficulty providing mobile coverage.

In Fayette- my radio system piece on ICORRS is co-located with State Opensky equipment at 4 tower sites. On one site in particular- we turned the site up early in our deployment project and compared coverage to the state system off the same tower site. For reference- our antennas are about 40' lower on the tower. Our coverage was significantly better on P25 vs the Opensky system.

I have no doubt that the P25 system will function very well for coverage in the state. But keep in mind- that once again the State has bid and is installing a MOBILE COVERAGE system.

 

[KC3ECJ]

Are they still going to have in vehicle repeaters? I imagine keeping the in vehicle repeaters on VHF would be impractical due to filtering. They are going to have to figure something out for troopers going into buildings. A VHF handheld to a main repeater won't make it much of the time.

 

[W7FDX]

Are they still going to have in vehicle repeaters? I imagine keeping the in vehicle repeaters on VHF would be impractical due to filtering. They are going to have to figure something out for troopers going into buildings. A VHF handheld to a main repeater won't make it much of the time.

They could do what CHP did and put a cross band mobile repeater in their cars. For example you will have the system on VHF and 700/800 then they carry a UHF portable with a mobile repeater then you get better building penetration and talk in/out capabilities.

 

[SlipNutz15]

They could do what CHP did and put a cross band mobile repeater in their cars. For example you will have the system on VHF and 700/800 then they carry a UHF portable with a mobile repeater then you get better building penetration and talk in/out capabilities.

That's all well and good until they chase someone and get too far away from their car and can't yell for help because no one is operating on UHF...

 

[ocguard]

You're NEVER going to create reliable portable coverage for the entire state of PA. Even county and municipal systems, with "upgraded" radio systems, have substantial portable dead zones.

A mobile extender of some sort would be a must for PSP.

 

[dmg1969]

Troubled state police radio system dodges audit

(Harrisburg) -- The trouble-plagued Pennsylvania State Police radio system will not be the subject of an audit by Pennsylvania's Auditor General.

Auditor General Eugene DePasquale says his office explored the idea of reviewing the radio system about 2 years ago, but decided against it, citing too many complicating factors.

"Going back to something that was awarded as a contract in 1998, before the state's "Right to Know" law was even put together; to have to interview Governor Schweiker, Governor Ridge, Governor Rendell; the fact that it was in the Office of Administration at the time and now is at the state police; the fact that we're dealing with a 16-year process and the fact that we're dealing with two vendors and potentially put my thumb on the scale of who should be getting the contract...." said DePasquale.

DePasquale says future PSP purchases will come under scrutiny.

The state has spent close to one billion dollars over almost 20 years but problems persist with the radios.

Troubled state police radio system dodges audit | News | witf.org