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DaveNF2G
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As the originator of the Kalifornia comment, I wish to clarify that I was referring to passing laws that blatantly oppose Federal law, and not to the abundance of laws in existence.
Palmdale California antenna ban
- Thread starter kf6bka
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As the originator of the Kalifornia comment, I wish to clarify that I was referring to passing laws that blatantly oppose Federal law, and not to the abundance of laws in existence.
DPD1
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I agree, the wild west mentality is still alive and well in many parts out here. I think it attracts some of the people that are leaning towards the anti gov attitude in many places. The only problem with that, is that it also works the other way around... As you described, they can also not be there when you actually need them. The homesteader days may have worked back then, when you had a lot more space between people. Or maybe it didn't work back then either, I don't know. But you don't have to go too far out in the desert in CA to be able to still find the little structures (shacks) that were built by people to take advantage of the homestead act. All you had to do was build a 'home' to get the land. Well, of course people manipulated the system... put up any old thing, then claimed the land as their own. That's why you can drive down the highway and still see the little shacks. Whether those people ever made any money, I don't know.
I've considered moving to the desert many times, but I'm apprehensive for the reason you mention. You have these situations where companies that own the huge parcels of land, will sell off little tiny portions for homes, just so they can get some cash flow. It gives the illusion that the buyers have all this land around them. Then 10 years later, in comes the giant housing development or factory. I ran into one the other day where this lot was for sale in the middle of nowhere. It was a great place with absolutely nothing around it. But they wanted 20k and the lot was .14 acre. Something seemed really fishy to me on that one. Why only .14 acre? Plus, you've got security issues, because many of those areas are going to take the sherif maybe 1/2 hour or more to even get near your place. So you're on your own until then.
Dave
www.DPDProductions.com
Antennas & Accessories for the RF Professional & Radio Hobbyist
Well Dave in cases like that you don't rely on 911 when .357 is what matters.
Well said by someone from New Jersey. The solution to everything is to shoot someone. Similar to our foreign policy right now. With all due respect, the observation of someone from the east coast, where much in life is very different from the west, doesn't always apply very well.
I get a bit tired by people who regard the taking of a human life so lightly. I can assure you that law enforcement officers do not regard their responsibility casually. They know more than most the incredible impact even a totally clear cut case of having to use their weapon has on a person. From personal experience of being first on scene on suicide calls involving a firearm, where I did not have to make the choice of using a weapon, that seeing the effect of a bullet on the human body is far different than what one may expect. Seeing someone missing 2/3 of their head modifies your perspective very quickly.
Dave, in some areas of Inyo and Mono County the response time well exceeds a half hour if a deputy is working in that beat. When one is not available in their beat due to court, investigations, sick and vacation leave, weekly days off, and other calls the response time is measured in hours. I've monitored situations where a call requires a Code 3 response in Shoshone in the southeast portion of Inyo County with no deputies on duty east of Lone Pine, deputies in San Bernardino County further away than Baker, with the only CHP officer in the Panimint Springs area. People can look at a map to see the distances involved here. Mutual aid is very well developed in such areas, so not only does the CHP roll on such calls, but in this case you might have the National Park Service respond outside Death Valley National Park to a on-going spousal assault in the town of Shoshone or Tecopa, and their response can still be 45 minutes if a park ranger is in the southern end of the park. If a park ranger is not in the southern portion of the park the response time can be greater.
We can count our lucky stars for the role the CHP takes in rural areas where they will always back up the counties when needed, and provide aviation resources that the counties can't even come close to affording. The CHP is an outstanding agency and in rural counties are viewed in a far different way than in urban areas. The Inyo National Forest's helicopter, available from May to October is often used in pursuit cases and in some years is used more for search and rescue than it is for wildland fires.
DaveNF2G, the use of the spelling Kalifornia is common on this website. This state gets labeled and stereotyped for things that, in fact, occur all over the country. The laws that apply to scanner use in a vehicle are far more restrictive east of the 100th meridian than they have ever been in all the western states. Other states have had far more cases of laws that defy the PRB-1 rule than California.
We have to face the fact that more people regard antennas as an eyesore than as a thing of beauty as most of us in the radio hobby do. The antennas of hobbyists are an easier target than the unsightliness of cell phone towers and endless utility poles with electrical conductors, cable TV, and old fashioned phone lines. It is incongruous that people with satellite TV dishes, categorized by the FCC for "hands off" treatment by local government and home owners associations, pointing at a couple of two meter verticals claiming visual intrusion. Of course, I guess we can use .357's to solve those situations as well.
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davidbond21
Member
Exsmokey
Thank you for saying that. Theres a lot of tough talk on here without a shred of regard for actual living beings.
Thank you for saying that. Theres a lot of tough talk on here without a shred of regard for actual living beings.
DPD1
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I'm sure when they started this thing with antennas in Palmdale, they were mostly thinking of the newer tract home areas. As I mentioned, for anyone who has been to the Antelope Valley, you know there's a lot more eyesores than just antennas. I'm not putting it down, I think it's an interesting area. And I think that a lot of people go there for that very reason... If they want to park a dump truck in their front yard, they can. But that mentality is accepted more in the rural areas, not the newer tract areas. Those areas of course have the more controlled mentality, where everybody wants everything to look exactly the same. A mentality that I've never really understood, but many people go for that kind of thing.
But yeah, the gun thing is great and all... I know how to use one. But really... Realistically, who wants to live like that? I mean what, am I going to sit on the porch all day holding a shotgun, never being able to take my eyes off my kids for a fraction of a second? Am I going to take my sidearm and go with my wife as she walks the dog for 15 minutes down the road? I don't know, sounds like a full-time security job to me. I think I'd rather just pay my taxes and have somebody else do it.
BTW... Ironically... Perfect example... Was just out that way in the middle of nowhere the other day when some idiot about 300 yards away pointed his rifle right at me. I saw him first through the binocs, then he saw me. I'm trying to figure out why he's deciding to stop in the middle of nowhere right near me, when all of the sudden I see him look one way, then the other, like he's seeing if anybody is around... then he raises the rifle right at me. I assume the guy was looking at me through the scope, but talk about having to change your underwear. That's the difference between living in the boonies and city living. That guy could have split my skull right there and had me buried an hour later, and nobody would have had a clue.
Dave
www.DPDProductions.com
Antennas & Accessories for the RF Professional & Radio Hobbyist
But yeah, the gun thing is great and all... I know how to use one. But really... Realistically, who wants to live like that? I mean what, am I going to sit on the porch all day holding a shotgun, never being able to take my eyes off my kids for a fraction of a second? Am I going to take my sidearm and go with my wife as she walks the dog for 15 minutes down the road? I don't know, sounds like a full-time security job to me. I think I'd rather just pay my taxes and have somebody else do it.
BTW... Ironically... Perfect example... Was just out that way in the middle of nowhere the other day when some idiot about 300 yards away pointed his rifle right at me. I saw him first through the binocs, then he saw me. I'm trying to figure out why he's deciding to stop in the middle of nowhere right near me, when all of the sudden I see him look one way, then the other, like he's seeing if anybody is around... then he raises the rifle right at me. I assume the guy was looking at me through the scope, but talk about having to change your underwear. That's the difference between living in the boonies and city living. That guy could have split my skull right there and had me buried an hour later, and nobody would have had a clue.
Dave
www.DPDProductions.com
Antennas & Accessories for the RF Professional & Radio Hobbyist
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davidbond21
Member
That same thing happened to my old Scoutmaster when he was younger working on a ranch on the border(in Texas). They(coworker) were driving along one day, stopped, and was just scanning along the other side of the river with some binoculars looking across into Mexico when he saw a guy with a scoped rifle pointing it directly at him. He said they got out of there pretty quick.
If anyone in Washington had a pair, they'd put an end to this crap.
http://gov.ca.gov/issue/disaster-preparedness/ Was amateur radio part of this drill?
http://feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=ContactUS.EmailMe
Yep! They too need to be aware!! http://www.dhs.gov/xutil/contactus.shtm
Actions speak louder than words folks...
http://gov.ca.gov/issue/disaster-preparedness/ Was amateur radio part of this drill?
http://feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=ContactUS.EmailMe
Yep! They too need to be aware!! http://www.dhs.gov/xutil/contactus.shtm
Actions speak louder than words folks...
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They were in my area. All the races/ares/whackers were busy.
what's the story on why people spell it that way?
Smokey, when the cops are half an hour away, you're facing an immediate threat to your life and you have a gun what would you do? Would you sit there waiting to die or protect yourself? Give us an honest answer if you please, no nonsense about New Jersey, foreign policy or other obfuscation is acceptable.
As in Republik of Kalifornia as in communistic. I live here and think it fits.
Read "Dial 911 and Die". Here's a link to Amazon's reviews.
http://www.amazon.com/review/product/0964230445
The police can't protect you unless they just happen to be driving by. They investigate after the fact. Not much comfort after your wife has been raped. You need to be able to protect you and yours.
http://www.amazon.com/review/product/0964230445
The police can't protect you unless they just happen to be driving by. They investigate after the fact. Not much comfort after your wife has been raped. You need to be able to protect you and yours.
This is a very valid point. A lot of people just don't get it even after you explain it slowly. This shouldn't need explaining on a scanner forum.
The neighborhood I live in has covenants that say no antennas at all. No dishes, no conventional TV, no CB, no ham, no nothing. We can't wash or clean up our cars on our own property, or park any kind of truck outside the garage, or do any landscaping or home improvements (including exterior paint touchup) without first submitting a plan to the Homeowners Association. We aren't even allowed to do our own lawn mowing.
And you know what? It still beats living with attitudes like yours, Ex. I really don't know why anybody wants to make it an East-West thing anyway. California sure as hell ain't paradise and it isn't called the Land of Flakes and Nuts for nothing, though that could be applied in any section of the US and Canada. What the hell makes anything west of the Mississippi better than east of it? There's no place in modern society that's really better than another. The better neighborhoods in either East or West have the same ridiculous restrictive covenants and codes that border on revoking the Bill of Rights, and criminal activities and bad attitudes don't go by state or regional boundaries, so what makes any of it east or west?
People in California are just as violence prone as anyone from east of there, or do you not read a local paper? I spent 18 months working in Calihellia building the infrastructure that goes at the base of radio tower sites. I got robbed once, carjacked once, and work truck stolen twice from supposedly secured job sites, none of which has ever happened to me in the east, and I was in what's considered the safer parts of your paradise. The police were so busy that they sent an officer around two or three days later each time to take a report and told us to turn the paperwork in to the insurance company. In other words, they didn't have time to mess with the loss of a truck and tools and test gear worth more than $80,000 that was registered in another state and wasn't contributing to the tax base of California, so they had no intention of looking for the perps. Yes, we were advised that they couldn't justify devoting a lot of time on any of the cases since we weren't residents and probably wouldn't return to ID or prosecute, and that the stolen property "should have sufficient insurance coverage to handle such a loss."
The towers we were supposed to erect for the great state of California were delayed for 7 months while the great state of California's inspectors and the local inspectors spent most of that time choosing up sides and posturing, head butting, and smelling each others butts like two packs of dogs while trying to decide whether they conformed to local, state, and federal regulations and who had the superior power. And then they had the unmitigated gall to serve the prime contractor, a California based company, with fines and penalties for failure to complete by contract date.
So lose the holier-than thou attitude. California isn't better or worse than the East, it's just a different kind of hell hole. We're not going to be destroyed by a comet, we're going to legislate ourselves from existence.
And you know what? It still beats living with attitudes like yours, Ex. I really don't know why anybody wants to make it an East-West thing anyway. California sure as hell ain't paradise and it isn't called the Land of Flakes and Nuts for nothing, though that could be applied in any section of the US and Canada. What the hell makes anything west of the Mississippi better than east of it? There's no place in modern society that's really better than another. The better neighborhoods in either East or West have the same ridiculous restrictive covenants and codes that border on revoking the Bill of Rights, and criminal activities and bad attitudes don't go by state or regional boundaries, so what makes any of it east or west?
People in California are just as violence prone as anyone from east of there, or do you not read a local paper? I spent 18 months working in Calihellia building the infrastructure that goes at the base of radio tower sites. I got robbed once, carjacked once, and work truck stolen twice from supposedly secured job sites, none of which has ever happened to me in the east, and I was in what's considered the safer parts of your paradise. The police were so busy that they sent an officer around two or three days later each time to take a report and told us to turn the paperwork in to the insurance company. In other words, they didn't have time to mess with the loss of a truck and tools and test gear worth more than $80,000 that was registered in another state and wasn't contributing to the tax base of California, so they had no intention of looking for the perps. Yes, we were advised that they couldn't justify devoting a lot of time on any of the cases since we weren't residents and probably wouldn't return to ID or prosecute, and that the stolen property "should have sufficient insurance coverage to handle such a loss."
The towers we were supposed to erect for the great state of California were delayed for 7 months while the great state of California's inspectors and the local inspectors spent most of that time choosing up sides and posturing, head butting, and smelling each others butts like two packs of dogs while trying to decide whether they conformed to local, state, and federal regulations and who had the superior power. And then they had the unmitigated gall to serve the prime contractor, a California based company, with fines and penalties for failure to complete by contract date.
So lose the holier-than thou attitude. California isn't better or worse than the East, it's just a different kind of hell hole. We're not going to be destroyed by a comet, we're going to legislate ourselves from existence.
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This is a different situation than what you presented and what I replied to but I don't think that really matters as I don't have a problem answering your question. I would take every step to avoid shooting someone, but if the situation was clearly obvious that it was kill or be killed I would have to shoot the person. What I was commenting on when I said that people take human life too casually when it comes to guns is that a lot of people talk about using a gun on a person so casually. That type of perspective is dangerous as it might lead to pulling the trigger too soon or when they didn't really have to. The impact on their life in that case would be far more devastating than they realize.
The number of civilians faced with a kill or be killed situation is very low. I am thankful I have not been faced with such a situation.
A friend of mine, in our senior year of high school in 1968, was working in his father's gas station in Culver City, California when he was approached by a suspect who law enforcement had contacted his father about. Seems this suspect had committed armed robbery at 5-10 gas stations and shot and killed the attendant in each case. My friends father gave his son a .45 pistol and they rigged up an old army jacket so he could carry the weapon in his armpit. Short story is the suspect walked up to my friend, pointed a gun at him, and during the money "exchange" and my friend got the drop on him, pulled out the .45 and shot him in the stomach from about 1 foot away. Now a .45 is like a handheld cannon at that range and I can only imagine what it did. The fatal gunshot incidents I've witnessed close up involved two people who were shot in the head with a .330 rifle and another hit with 12 gauge shotgun at 10 feet as fired by a Flagstaff police officer using a 00 load. I'm told that the exit wound of a .45 fired at close range is real messy. My friend became increasingly distant with everyone as the semester progressed. He had a few incidents of emotional outbursts on campus where he had to be taken home, involving uncontrollable crying and collapse. We noticed he didn't show up for school for a week or more and then never returned. He didn't graduate with my class and I never found out what happened to him. It was a righteous shoot and the responding and investigating officers congratulated him for it. Many people called him a hero. A week or so after the shooting, during lunch on campus he became quite angry about being called a hero saying "no one could understand what it is like to kill someone unless they had to do it." This was a kill or be killed situation and the impact on this young man most likely affected the rest of his life.
I was also at an age when many people my age, plus about 4 years and minus about 2 (I was born in late 1950) went into the Army or Marines and were in combat in Vietnam. Their accounts of shooting Vietnamese guerrillas and NVA's, another kill or be killed situation, indicated that having to kill, even in war, is not simple and it is not without significant affect to a person.
I have a very nice 1930's semi auto Remington Shotgun with the standard 5 shell storage. It has been, owned by three generations in my family. I have (2) .22 rifles. I rarely use them. I had a situation in New Mexico with someone walking around the house in the middle of the night. I loaded it and carefully opened the front door knowing that the screen door was also latched on the inside. I then pushed the spring activated loader and that very distinctive sound was emitted by the gun. This was followed by the sound of running feet, a car door being slammed, and wheels throwing gravel. I thought the desired outcome would result from my actions and if not I would have closed the front door and had my wife and I retreat to the kitchen, where our view of the entire house was the best and a very wide counter top provided cover. I'm not sure of what would have happened if the prowler entered the house, but my plan would be to get the drop on him in the dark and give a command to freeze and only fire if he displayed a weapon or continued to move in our direction. None of us really know what we would do in that situation. Now that I live in the big city I'm not as concerned.
Mistakes can be made as well. When I lived in New Mexico one night due to partially waking up one night a couple of times I thought my wife was in bed with me when I heard the front door open. I bolted upright and moved to the loaded shotgun behind the bedroom door (no shell in the cylinder with the safety on and always secured when company was over). I loaded the cylinder very quietly and pointed it down the hall as I heard someone moving down the hall. When I heard my wife talking to our cat as she moved down the hall toward me I nearly passed out. Tragic accidents happen in similar circumstances.
I have several other stories about shootings and gun use but I think these are sufficient to make my point.
All I said was people seem to disregard the effects that result from a shooting. Everyone I've ever talked with that has killed someone with a gun has been deeply affected. That needs to be considered before saying things like "my car alarm is a Smith and Wesson" and other overly macho statements. They are all a crock and spoken by ignorant people, in my opinion.
davidbond21
Member
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This thread has been hijacked and now appears to be better placed in "The Wasteland." A review of this thread shows that several people from outside California criticized the state using the words "Kalifornia" and "Communifornia," before my first post. One person making this type of comment is from New York and another from New Jersey. I tried to point out : other areas of the country have as many or more restrictive laws pertaining to use of radios, most especially New York where a ham was cited for having amateur transceivers in his vehicle; the type and number of laws and regulations an area has correlates with population density, some areas in California are as densely populated as large portions of the east, therefore regulations/laws have similarities in both areas; living in areas without such regulation has its drawbacks, and I provided examples of such drawbacks in three states, all in the west (AZ, NM, and NV), I've lived/worked in; and that some posted opinions about California are likely based on a eastern perspective.
Comments about "Kalifornia" made in this thread and countless others on this website imply that other areas of the country are superior to California. I would have to bury myself under a rock to avoid all the dump on California sentiment in existence. I provided information that challenges the stereotype of California used in relation to the topic of this thread. I did not say that the west was superior and the east is inferior. I did not say that California is some type of paradise without problems that are common to other parts of the country. Cases of restrictions on the use of amateur radio antennas are occurring all over the country, not just in California.
As for regional differences, I have observations of life in the western U.S. that many people in the east probably can't imagine. My conversations with thousands of eastern U.S. visitors while working for the U.S. Forest Service in the west have given me this view. Examples would be the poverty, alcoholism, depression, and health problems on Indian reservations; the distances of travel involved in remote areas of New Mexico, Nevada, Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana; the magnitude of western topography, and the third world characteristics of large areas of rural New Mexico. The average travels of urban and eastern visitors often do not touch some of these issues as living in those locations does.
That does not imply that the west is superior and the east is inferior. Thank goodness there are regional differences, they are something to celebrate and experience. I'm dismayed to observe the homogenization of the country when I travel. The same large ugly concrete retail outlets in large shopping centers surrounded by large parking lots with the same restaurants are spreading to nearly every corner of the country. I've spent some time in the southeast, at Clemson University, at the home of my wife's uncle and aunt in Atlanta, and time with my nephew in St. Louis with travels through the Ozarks. The southern culture is something to be appreciated and I want to experience more of it. I dream of traveling in the east in the fall to experience the color change. That dream consists of renting a car in Portland Maine in late September and having 6 weeks to return it in Miami. I would not only like to see the color change but the historical sites in the east. We don't have anything in the west that can compare. Traveling in the east would no doubt change my perspective, what other reason is there for traveling?
Travel can help break down stereotypes and those people who purposely start the spelling of California with a K might experience the same thing if they traveled here. Few people I meet or talk to realize the scope of the topography in the eastern Sierra, that the Owens Valley is the deepest valley in the U.S., and that it snows here. My home is located at the lowest elevation in town and the average annual snowfall in my driveway is 17 feet. The higher elevation portions of town receive close to twice that. Nearby Mammoth Mountain averages around 400 inches per year and had a record snowfall of 55 feet in 2006. The northern portion of California (north of the Sacramento megalopolis) has large rivers and remoteness that rivals anything in the lower 48. The state of California is not all freeways, beaches, Hollywood, and amusement parks. Other states have a similar quantity of people stereotyped as fruits, nuts, and flakes, at least in the three other states I've lived and worked in. I've found some real interesting people living "alternative lifestyles" in the 8 states I had fire and investigative assignments in. The fruit, nut, flake stereotype is one rooted in oneupmanship (superiority) and is highly judgemental of other people with differing lifestyles and viewpoints. Simply put, oneupmanship is the expression of the inferiority of others in an attempt to bolster one's own self image. It is a human tendency, not unique to any region on earth.
Now back to the subject of this thread: the ordinance is quite an interesting read. Here is a link to it:
http://www.cityofpalmdale.org/departments/planning/zoning/chapter 1.pdf
Dave, your observations of the high desert, in particular Palmdale and Lancaster, match my own. The Palmdale ordinance cited deals with many of those issues and radio antennas are a very small portion of the ordinance. As Palmdale matures it has found the need to address many zoning/land use issues that have not gotten attention for decades and the intent is to improve the community, a hard job considering the past. I'm sure that the antenna portion of this ordinance is going to be challenged and will not hold up in its present form. This is and will continue to be an interesting issue to follow.
P.S. I can't find Calihellia, California using a Google or a DeLorme Street Atlas USA search. I would like to know where it is.
Races? asses? whackers???
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9228945/
It seems to me that some kind of compromise could be made here. A city just can't create a qusi communist like law without public opinion.
I live just a few houses down from a house with more antennas than you could count. There is no interference here at all! In fact, I probably create interference for him! All my fancy electronic gadgetry I'm sure plays havoc on HF. Also, just a block away is another house with a tower. No problems! I think something could be said for someone who lives right next door though. I don't know, does the City Of Palmdale have some evidence to present that might show otherwise to what my experiences are here? I'm surrounded by RF! I also create RF! I'm sure the same could be said for Palmdale as well. Surly they carefully weighed the facts as to their decision to make the possession of a tower a misdemeanor...
Meetings should be held with the city on this and arguments should be heard. This is a cancer that may spread throughout the states, it needs to be controlled. These provisions of the ordnance are supposed to, "promote the public health, safety, and general welfare.."?
Are 2/3 of the people completely feed up with interference or something? I'm familiar with California, I lived in Riverside. My aunt had to fight of "eminent domain". There are may tools to use in fighting this BS, believe me. The people that created this ordinance are payed by YOU! You are their boss, it's not the other way around, and you don't approve of this horse sht. I do not like the injustice of which some law's or ordinances bring and are tolerated by citizens. Frankly, all these policy makers lives should be looked into. Where did they get their RF degree and how do they trump the Federal Communication Commission? Maybe this issue does need to be litigated. The people v. The City Of Palmdale.
Cali. is broke as it is. Last thing they want is more budgetary concerns. :lol:
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