Palmdale California antenna ban

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Eng74

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The problem with Palmdale is that has turned into a bedroom comunity. Air Force Plant 42 is pretty quit now not much is going on there, it is where the Space Shuttle, B-1B and B-2 Bomers were built. There are still some small farms in the area but not much. Palmdale is a town that is growing out from the older part of town which was by the 14 freeway now out to the East. even with all of the econmic problems people are still moving to the area to get away from L.A. but still be within driving distance to L.A. for work. The 14 in to L.A. now is backed up from 5:00 am to 9:00 a.m. monday through friday and then on the North bound side from 3:00 p.m. to after 6:00 p.m.. The Antelope Valley is the busiest areas for LA County Fire. Most people who live there are not going to go to City Council meeting because they do not have the time, it is all spent driving.
 

SigIntel8600

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Smokey, when the cops are half an hour away, you're facing an immediate threat to your life and you have a gun what would you do? Would you sit there waiting to die or protect yourself? Give us an honest answer if you please, no nonsense about New Jersey, foreign policy or other obfuscation is acceptable.
In your beloved state of New Jersey, you would probably be prosecuted. Did you have an avenue of retreat? You do not want to use deadly force in NJ. Let's stop with the wet dream fantasies of blowing away dirtbags. I agree with Ex-Smokey.

Yes I live in New Jerkey, too
 

n1das

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Getting back on the original topic of Palmdale CA's proposed antenna ban and not about gun laws in NJ and dream fantasies of blowing away dirtbags, I say Palmdale still hasn't got a leg to stand on since they're trying to mess with things they legally have no say over (i.e., outside their jurisdiction). I watched the Youtube videos too....interesting and disturbing. The draconian measures proposed by Palmdale won't hold up in court but they may still try them anyway.

The interview in the first Youtube video mentioned antennas (or towers?) no higher than 1 INCH above a residence. Did I hear that correctly? Did anybody also happen to catch the brief mention in the interview that violators could face confiscation of their ham equipment? IMHO, excellent lawsuit material on top of everything else!

Fred K1VR's PRB-1 presentation at Dayton in 2004:
http://www.antennazoning.com/docs//K1VR-Dayton2004/index_files/frame.htm

Think about the questions posed in the PRB-1 presentation and how they relate to the Palmdale situation. I see many blatant violations, IMHO.
 
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SCPD

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This is a portion of a PM I sent in reply to someone who is not a native of California and thought it would add something to the discussion of a situation in California where people are firing a lot of shots at California as a result. The issue needs to be discussed in a far more objective manner. As someone pointed out, this a nationwide trend. If we keep labeling certain cities and states, and the ignorance of the public as the cause we only further isolate ourselves and make our failure even more likely. After I post this I must withdraw from this thread for reasons I explained in a thread on the California forum.

I was born and grew up in L.A. When I was about twelve I began to have thoughts that I needed to experience life somewhere else. My main motivation was to get outside urban areas and see how the other 25% of the country lives. I kept steering toward a career with the National Park Service or the Forest Service and moved out of state to get a forestry education. I lived in Arizona and New Mexico for over ten years. I transferred to Bridgeport, Calfornia and that locale is heavily influenced by Nevada. 55% of the land of Bridgeport Ranger District of the Toiyabe National Forest is located in Nevada so I often think that I really lived in Nevada as well and have stated such on this website. I lived in Bridgeport for 7 years and transferred to Mammoth Lakes nearly 21 years ago.

I've seen life in other states as I've lived it. You deal with a lot of issues when you work for the Forest Service, many that the residents themselves don't have any knowdedge of. You deal with a lot of land use law, and the lack of it, along with state and local governments. I've been on fires and investigations in 8 additional states and have gone to long term 4 week plus) university courses on the east coast sponsered by the Forest Service. Clemson University to be specific. I've been lucky to have the limited experience in all ten states I've lived and/or worked in.

I don't hold any particular allegiance to California even though I was born in the state. I've gone where I had to go for my career and those places and work I'm most interested in. California has some great agenices, in particular OES, CDF, DPR (state parks), Caltrans, and the CHP. All but the CHP are so far ahead of similar agencies in the other states I've lived in and been assigned to for fires and other temporary work, suffiiciently enough that it is clearly obvious to me. The CHP is an outstanding agency and in the states I've lived in only the DPS in Arizona is close. I've dealt with all these types of agencies in the states I've worked in and even if I wanted to rag on California I can't deny what I observed. Many states in other regions of the country might have just as good or better agencies as California does, but I did not find them in the four states I lived in, or the 8 others states I've spent time in.

The incident command system was developed here and is now the nationwide standard. This is not California provincialism, it is what happened. When you have the most challenging wildland and urban-wildland interface in the world, combine that with earthquakes, mudslides, and flooding that exceeds the frequency of disasters in many other states you better come up with something that works. Neccessity has been the mother of invention in the state and thoes California agencies I mentioned often gather ideas from other states, but people in those other states regard things from California with an amazing amount of suspiciion that has been demonstrated to me when no one has any idea that I'm from California, some right in the Forest Service, who I worked for from 1973 to 1999.

I've been blessed to be able to live and work outside California, this is just where I've been for the last 27 years. We may move back to Arizona in the next few years in order to get closer to our families in Arizona. I don't hold any provincial California attitudes and have found value in every region I've lived in. None of them can compare to each other, you can't find everything in one place. That is a huge reason I chose the Forest Service as a career as it affords the opportunity to live and work in 44 states in large megalopisis areas, places with no town at all, and everthing in between. My only regret is that I could only live in 4 states. I'm at an age where living in more than one more is not likely.

I wish people would lay off the Kalifornia and land of fruits and nuts thing. It is a rap the state does not deserve based on my experience. We all need to learn from each other, no matter where we live and no matter what we look like. I've been sharply criticized for holding a provincial California attitude by one poster, in the face of the anti-California provincial attitude of quite a few posters on this thread.
 

AZScanner

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Isn't this the same city that allowed the cellphone companies to erect big (we're talking at least 50 feet tall), ugly, fake giant pine tree looking antennae? Last time I was there I saw TWO of these in the AV. TWO!

I was like "WTH, where did the GIANT redwood tree come from?"


It looks like this, but more fake looking (especially considering these geniuses installed the thing in THE DESERT)

 

n1das

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Fred K1VR's PRB-1 presentation at Dayton in 2004:
http://www.antennazoning.com/docs//K1VR-Dayton2004/index_files/frame.htm

Think about the questions posed in the PRB-1 presentation and how they relate to the Palmdale situation. I see many blatant violations, IMHO.
According to PRB-1, the answers to ALL of the following questions must be YES:

1. Reasonably accomodate Amateur communications?
Probably not. I give this one a NO.

2. Minimum practicable regulation?
No. Palmdale's proposed antenna ban on its face is unreasonable and totally unnecessary.

3. Each application approached with an open mind?
Probably not.

4. Considered from the amateur's perspective?
Probably not since they appear to be against anything to do with a licensed ham putting up antennas anywhere in Palmdale.


According to PRB-1, the answers to ALL of the following questions must be NO:

1. Balancing of interests?
Probably YES. I haven't read Palmdale's proposed ban but I suspect there's mention of a need to "balance the interests of the amateur with the needs of the community."

2. Impinge on needs of Amateur?
YES. A one inch heigh limitation is severely restrictive, IMHO.

3. Fixed or unvarying height limit?
YES. ONE INCH!

4. Consider RFI?
YES. Concerns over RFI whether real or imagined are supposedly what led to the creation of Palmdale's proposed antenna ban. Legally, Palmdale "can't go there", i.e., they have no jurisdiction there whatsoever. Any concerns about RFI whether real or imagined absolutely and legally CANNOT be factored into city official's decision making process regarding a tower application.

IMHO, I don't think we need to worry much about Palmdale's proposed antenna ban becoming a national trend because what Palmdale is trying to do is technically ILLEGAL. Doesn't mean they (Palmdale) won't try it though.
 
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