pell city pd

[JRayfield]

And some agencies have lost a lot of range when they switched to narrowband analog. I was told that a nearby sheriff's department lost around 25% of their range, when they made the change to narrowband analog. Some systems seem to lose more range than others. But, switching to MOTOTRBO assures that they won't lose range as compared to being on wideband (likely, they'll gain range). That's why some agencies are chosing MOTOTRBO over narrowband analog.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

Mototrbo saying we can make you narrow band compliant by selling you their system when in reality you only need to reprogram your radio to 12.5 mhz which most newer radios can do but it would make them miss a sale.

 

[morganAL]

Absolutely! County Fire narrowbanded here last year and it made a BIG difference in range... probably on the order of 15-20 percent reduction I have coverage prediction maps on my desk right now that show 3 sites with analog and 3 sites with digital. The difference is significant. One thing to consider too is that while many departments may have newer user radios, a lot of them are having to replace repeaters. If a department is going to have to change a lot of equipment why stay analog and lose coverage if they can switch to digital and have the same or better coverage? This is especially true of platforms like MotoTrbo where the equipment is similarly priced to analog equipment.

And some agencies have lost a lot of range when they switched to narrowband analog. I was told that a nearby sheriff's department lost around 25% of their range, when they made the change to narrowband analog. Some systems seem to lose more range than others. But, switching to MOTOTRBO assures that they won't lose range as compared to being on wideband (likely, they'll gain range). That's why some agencies are chosing MOTOTRBO over narrowband analog.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

 

[CyberGoth1440]

A little off topic but did Morgan County Fire go narrowband?

 

[morganAL]

Yep. Dec 1, 2010.

A little off topic but did Morgan County Fire go narrowband?

 

[CyberGoth1440]

Thanks.

 

[TRamrod38]

And some agencies have lost a lot of range when they switched to narrowband analog. I was told that a nearby sheriff's department lost around 25% of their range, when they made the change to narrowband analog. Some systems seem to lose more range than others. But, switching to MOTOTRBO assures that they won't lose range as compared to being on wideband (likely, they'll gain range). That's why some agencies are chosing MOTOTRBO over narrowband analog.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

I think trbo may be alright in some places but I know of 2 agencies that are using trbo and have had nothing but trouble out of them. One Agency has been fighting this system since 2009 and the other since 2010. They have used different companies to try to fix the problems, but still get a lot of Garbled Transmissions. Sometimes they have to use the City Police frequency to talk to dispatch. I have talked to some of the deputies and they said they are very dangerous radios for Law Enforcement to use. They said that they wish they had there old radio system back. At least they could talk to dispatch on old system.

 

[JRayfield]

MOTOTRBO systems aren't any different than analog systems - they have to be designed correctly that the 'system level'. Ive seen a lot of analog systems that were TERRIBLE in performance. But, I've never seen anyone blame the problem on 'analog FM radio'. The same should be true here. Problems with MOTOTRBO systems are not caused by the MOTOTRBO 'technology'. It's because of poor systems design or other problems.

I would very much like to speak with someone at both of these agencies. Would you mind sending me a private message with the names of the agencies?

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

I think trbo may be alright in some places but I know of 2 agencies that are using trbo and have had nothing but trouble out of them. One Agency has been fighting this system since 2009 and the other since 2010. They have used different companies to try to fix the problems, but still get a lot of Garbled Transmissions. Sometimes they have to use the City Police frequency to talk to dispatch. I have talked to some of the deputies and they said they are very dangerous radios for Law Enforcement to use. They said that they wish they had there old radio system back. At least they could talk to dispatch on old system.

 

[CyberGoth1440]

I'm just a radio hobbyist but I would think in fringe areas where you would have have static or fading on NFM analog you would instead get digital "noise" on Trbo. That's what happens on the P25 800Mhz system here.
People wouldn't be as quick to attack Trbo if there was a scanner that could monitor it. Just my opinion.

 

[AlabamaWeather]

From what my FD has advised me St. Clair Co Fire will remain using the analog system for a year once they switch over to digital. Also the tone-outs (paging) for the FD will remain analog as well. I am still not sure what all we will lose scanning wise when we switch.

Also, what about the RPS agency that's contracted for the county. Are they switching as well?

I'm sure, at some point that some scanner company out there will be legally able to decode the digital traffic soon..

 

[JRayfield]

I appreciate your comments. I have very little personal experience with P25 digital systems, but I've spoken with others in the Land Mobile Radio industry who have had a lot of experience with them. On the other hand, I have a lot of experience with MOTOTRBO.

With MOTOTRBO, when the signal gets down to the point of starting to 'go digital', the signal is at a level that would be too far into the noise to be copied on analog. I've experience this personally and actually have a recording of a test that my father and I did, where this 'phenomenon' is clearly heard. Basically, due to the forward error correction used in MOTOTRBO radios, these radios can reliably 'decode' the data (voice) as well, or even better than, the human ear and mind can 'hear' a voice that is 'buried' in static. Some may argue against this being possible, but I have personally seen a computer 'decode' a digital signal on HF frequencies that could barely, if at all, be heard through the static/noise.

On the other hand, I've heard numerous reports from those who have stated that P25 tends to 'go digital' and 'drop out' in cases where the signal might have been copied if it had been analog. I asked a dealer in Georgia, who has worked with both P25 sytems and MOTOTRBO systems, how the two compared with respect to the level of signal required to get a 'copyable' signal on P25 versus MOTOTRBO. According to him, it does take a stronger signal into a P25 receiver, to get 'readable' audio, as compared to MOTOTRBO. This would tend to explain why you've heard what you describe and why I've heard MOTOTRBO work much better than that.

I completely agree with you, with regards to why some 'attack' MOTOTRBO.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

I'm just a radio hobbyist but I would think in fringe areas where you would have have static or fading on NFM analog you would instead get digital "noise" on Trbo. That's what happens on the P25 800Mhz system here.
People wouldn't be as quick to attack Trbo if there was a scanner that could monitor it. Just my opinion.

 

[TRamrod38]

I'm just a radio hobbyist but I would think in fringe areas where you would have have static or fading on NFM analog you would instead get digital "noise" on Trbo. That's what happens on the P25 800Mhz system here.
People wouldn't be as quick to attack Trbo if there was a scanner that could monitor it. Just my opinion.

There may not be a scanner to monitor it alone, but it can be monitor with a certain models of scanners, computer and software together. I listen to one agency sometimes it is clear and sometimes very Garbled Transmissions. In my opinion not very reliable radios for Law Enforcement to be using.