pon pon and pan pan
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k6bsr
Member
Right or wrong, if you listen to my live feed for more than an hour you are bound to hear at least one of the above calls. I live near "the graveyard of the Pacific" A.K.A mouth of the Columbia and hear lot's of activity from air station Astoria and station Cape Disappointment as well as the National motor lifeboat school at "Cape D".
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Here's what it means... it's an URGENT distress call.. but not an EMERGENCY:
Transmitting Distress Calls
When grave and imminent danger threatens life or property and immediate help
is required, transmit the MAYDAY Call on Channel 16. Start the call by repeating
MAYDAY three times. Once you have made contact, communicate your boat name,
position (latitude and longitude, or distance from known geographical point), problem,
type of assistance needed, number of people on board (and if any are
injured), safety equipment on board, and identifying characteristics of your vessel
(length, type, color). Monitor Channel 16 for a response.
For non-life-threatening situations such as:
• Running out of fuel
• Mechanical breakdown
Transmit a PON-PON URGENCY call on Channel 16.
Start the call by repeating PON-PON three times. Once you have made contact,
communicate your boat name, position (latitude and longitude, or distance from
known geographical point), and type of assistance required or problem. Identify a
listening frequency and monitor that channel. Cancel PON-PON when urgency has
been resolved.
Transmitting Distress Calls
When grave and imminent danger threatens life or property and immediate help
is required, transmit the MAYDAY Call on Channel 16. Start the call by repeating
MAYDAY three times. Once you have made contact, communicate your boat name,
position (latitude and longitude, or distance from known geographical point), problem,
type of assistance needed, number of people on board (and if any are
injured), safety equipment on board, and identifying characteristics of your vessel
(length, type, color). Monitor Channel 16 for a response.
For non-life-threatening situations such as:
• Running out of fuel
• Mechanical breakdown
Transmit a PON-PON URGENCY call on Channel 16.
Start the call by repeating PON-PON three times. Once you have made contact,
communicate your boat name, position (latitude and longitude, or distance from
known geographical point), and type of assistance required or problem. Identify a
listening frequency and monitor that channel. Cancel PON-PON when urgency has
been resolved.
bejohnson
Member
We have covered all of that above. See post number 16 about the correct pronunciation of PAN-PAN. It is not PON-PON no matter what the Coast Guard says or does. The call is from the French word "Panne" which means breakdown and is pronounced as I stated in post number 16.
D
DaveNF2G
Guest
The correct pronunciation in French would be PAHN-PAHN, which might confuse English speakers. PON-PON is closer to the right sound than the English PAN-PAN, which would be too nasal.
k6bsr
Member
carolina scanner spy is only half right
The PON PON...PON PON...PON PON call is ONLY used by the Coast Guard to alert all vessels and Coast Guard units to a possible life or death emergency. You would never call PON PON from your vessel in ANY situation as it will just confuse people who may think the Coasties already know about the situation. It appears to me that everything else was pretty good info, but if you listen long enough you will realize that a PON PON is only issued by the Coast Guard.
The PON PON...PON PON...PON PON call is ONLY used by the Coast Guard to alert all vessels and Coast Guard units to a possible life or death emergency. You would never call PON PON from your vessel in ANY situation as it will just confuse people who may think the Coasties already know about the situation. It appears to me that everything else was pretty good info, but if you listen long enough you will realize that a PON PON is only issued by the Coast Guard.
RKG
Member
Quite incorrect. See the CFR citation above. The Pan-Pan urgency signal is properly, and regularly, used by non-USCG vessels in appropriate situations. Just to pick one example, a vessel that suffers a plant failure and goes dead ship while navigating in a channel would issue an all stations Pan-Pan to alert other traffic of the hazard.
From 47 CFR sec. 80.237:
"(a) The urgency signal idicates that the calling station has a very urgent message to transmit concerning the safety of a ship, aircraft, or other vehicle, or the safety of a person. The urgency signal must be sent only on the authority of the master or person responsible for mobile stations.'"
"(c) In radiotelephony, the urgency signal consists of three oral repetitions of the group of words PAN PAN transmitted before the call."
From 47 CFR sec. 80.238:
"(c) When the urgency signal has been sent before transmitting a message 'to all stations' which calls for action by the stations receiving the message, the station responsible for its transmission must cancel it as soon as it knows that action is longer necessary. This message of cancellation must likewise be addressed 'to all stations."
The rules governing message signals are set forth in the above FCC regulations (and the correlative provisions of the Navigation Rules) and are not a matter of opinion.
bejohnson
Member
Read post 16 above, my late wife was a linguist and spoke French and 35 other languages fluently. The correct pronunciation of the French root word "Panne" is /ˈpæn. Again, the æ is pronounced as in bad, ban, pan or bat. Again, here is a link to the International Phonetic Alphabet for English that gives the correct pronunciation for most English vowels.
I just ask my French teacher from college and he states that it is pronounced "pan". "Pon" or "Pahn" is the Americanized version and will get you laughed at in France besides being wrong.
Here is the definition of "panne" from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary with audio pronunciation.
As I stated above, my late wife was an O-8 (two star admiral) in the navy. I myself was a SES (Special Executive Service) officer employed as a military command troubleshooter by the G.H.W. Bush White House in the early 1990s. I carried the equivalent rank of O-10 (four stars). I also have been a licensed radio telephone operator (first phone w/RADAR endorsement before they did away with it in 1985.) since 1972. I have served on board naval and merchant marine vessels. The correct pronunciation is PAN like frying pan.
The confusion comes from the French word panpan which is baby talk and is pronounced ponpon. Ponpon means spanking in French and should not be confused with panne which means breakdown. The audio for panne and panpan can be found at http://french.about.com/library/pronunciation/bl-audiodico-p.htm. Remember panpan in French is spanking. Panne-Panne is breakdown, breakdown.
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D
DaveNF2G
Guest
Well, I guess I have received my panpan for the day. 
Thank you bejohnson for the thorough explanation and de-mythification of the PAN-PAN proword. The topic is now laid to rest as far as I am concerned.
Thank you bejohnson for the thorough explanation and de-mythification of the PAN-PAN proword. The topic is now laid to rest as far as I am concerned.
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The post is how the USCG and the Maritime Mobile Network pronounces it and it is accepted as such on all communications via Marine frequencies on VHF & HF. It is pronounced "pon-pon" and i could care less about how the French or you say it or spell it.
CSP
i started this thread almost 2 years ago......i am surprised its still active....
bejohnson
Member
Wrong is wrong and if you are ever in an international situation with an urgent message using pon-pon might just get you ignored. If you used pon-pon on a ship under my command you would be relieved of duty and put on report because a radio operator should know better..
Your attitude demonstrates why not everyone is cut out to be a sailor or communications officer. Your attitude is that of a child that can't accept being proved wrong. You need a good panpan.
Btw, the navy does not accept or use pon-pon nor does any international marine communications group that I know of. Only the coast guard uses that pronunciation with any regularity. On the "Deadliest Catch" Keith Colburn, captain of the Wizard, used the pronunciation pan-pan when he suffer an engine failure. Your statement that pon-pon is accepted on all communications is dead wrong. Mariners and aviators in the know use pan-pan.
bejohnson
Member
I just discovered that your post is an exact copy of Katbody10's post of June 7, 2009, 12:52 AM EDT on the Deadliest Catch Wiki on Discovery.com.
Blatant plagiarism is fround upon intensely. Give credit where credit is due.
k6bsr
Member
PAWN,Pon,PAN,Poo and whatnot...
I guess I found my first flamers in this thread. I should have known better than to add a comment from ACTUAL MONITORING EXPERIENCE. I just hope you(flamers) never get into a jam near the mouuth of the Columbia river as your ignorance will most likely get you or somebody else hurt and maybe even killed. If the Coasties, don't help you then the REAL fishermen and mariners will surely have your backside for lunch when you do limp back into port. 'Nuf said about this one for me.
I guess I found my first flamers in this thread. I should have known better than to add a comment from ACTUAL MONITORING EXPERIENCE. I just hope you(flamers) never get into a jam near the mouuth of the Columbia river as your ignorance will most likely get you or somebody else hurt and maybe even killed. If the Coasties, don't help you then the REAL fishermen and mariners will surely have your backside for lunch when you do limp back into port. 'Nuf said about this one for me.
rvictor
Member
K6BSR,
Perhaps if you had qualified your statement to indicate the area in which you claimed that it was applicable, you would have come out better. Then you would have had some wiggle room when others posted specific CFR provisions that were contrary to what you posted.
Dick
Perhaps if you had qualified your statement to indicate the area in which you claimed that it was applicable, you would have come out better. Then you would have had some wiggle room when others posted specific CFR provisions that were contrary to what you posted.
Dick
captncarp
Member
And then there is MAYWEST....anybody that was around in WW II knows the origin of that term for a Personal Flotation Device...nothing French about that.
"Smart Guys join the Hooligan Navy......if the boat sinks they can walk ashore"
"Smart Guys join the Hooligan Navy......if the boat sinks they can walk ashore"
bejohnson
Member
Branden,
I guess I'm ignorant. Before my wife picked up her two stars she was an O-6 and the C/O of a special specification Ticonderoga class Aegis cruiser. After that she was a task group commander before becoming a deputy CNO in charge of all naval systems design.. Me, I just was the overall temporary C/O of about 140,000 sailors, marines and officers on the east coast and the Atlantic including some attached Coast Guard assets before the command realignments under Clinton.
BTW, The only reason you hear the coast guard issue a PON-PON call is that most everyone else knows to use PAN-PAN. I actually overheard a navy comm officer ask a coast guard station what the h*** he meant when he was transmitting PON-PON. When the reply indicated it was an urgent safety call the coast guard station was admonished to use the correct English and international terms. English is the accepted universal language of radio communications because it bridges most language gaps. The navy ship was the Iwo Jima and the coast guard station was CGS-ATC Mobile, AL
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bejohnson
Member
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Hello,
I am a radio watchstander in the United States Coast Guard. We ARE tought that if we hear a pan pan over channel 16 (or whatever channel) we shall respond as if it were a MAYDAY. If this is wrong, then one should take this up with USCG Headquarters. I will say that if one is NOT in distress, call the nearest Coast Guard unit by name or just hail "US Coast Guard" and a USCG unit should answer the call ASAP. MAYDAY should be used for distress/emergencies ONLY. Also, we WILL respond to "HELP", or any other word or phrase that we might think is an actual emergency.
If you have any questions, please ask.
Thank you.
I am a radio watchstander in the United States Coast Guard. We ARE tought that if we hear a pan pan over channel 16 (or whatever channel) we shall respond as if it were a MAYDAY. If this is wrong, then one should take this up with USCG Headquarters. I will say that if one is NOT in distress, call the nearest Coast Guard unit by name or just hail "US Coast Guard" and a USCG unit should answer the call ASAP. MAYDAY should be used for distress/emergencies ONLY. Also, we WILL respond to "HELP", or any other word or phrase that we might think is an actual emergency.
If you have any questions, please ask.
Thank you.
bejohnson
Member
A PAN-PAN call (urgent call) takes precedence over everything except a MAYDAY call and should be treated as such until the nature of the situation is known and can be evaluated by the applicable command authority. As a rule of thumb it's better to over respond than to be lax in response. My bone of contention is the mispronunciation on PAN-PAN as PON-PON. I have even been told by a couple of French naval officers that when they hear the USCG use PON-PON they smile because it sounds like they are asking for a spanking.
The USCG does an admirable job in the performance of their mission. Thad Allen has done a yeoman's job maintaining standards while answering to many masters.
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