Pro-164

[toanco_k32]

Hi all
I'm just a newbie to scanning & this is my first post here. After reading sometime I've got my newly-bought Pro-164 to this point
The system is Motorola SmartNet
- 4 control channels on bank0, from 000 to 003, set to MO mode
- 17 voice channels. I can hear voice on each chanel.
- The bank is set to trunktrack, mode MO.
- I've put around 20 talkgroup ID onto ID list
The problem is when I set voice channels to MO mode, than I can hear nothing. I tried both close & open mode for the bank. The scanner keep scanning without any change
If I change 17 voice channels to normal FM mode, than I can hear a lot of chit-chating
My question: how can scanner determine the voice channel it jump to? By frequency of the channel or by order of how the channel is entered into memory? Because I see no logical link between control channel & voice chanel
Did I miss something?
Thank you for your time reading my problem

 

[DickH]

- 4 control channels on bank0, from 000 to 003, set to MO mode
- 17 voice channels. I can hear voice on each chanel.

Did I miss something?

1 - You need ONLY the 4 control channels.
2 - If you hear them in FM mode, it is not trunking.
3 - After entering the last control channel, hit SCAN.

Now it will be trunking in OPEN mode. (a + sign under the bank number.
To hear only the Talk Groups (IDs) you have entered, it must be in CLOSED mode. ( a - sign under the bank number).

 

[N8IAA]

When you programmed them, did you first press FUNC, then TRUNK? If not, you programmed them as conventional frequencies. The TGID's need to programmed the same way.
HTH,
Larry

 

[toanco_k32]

1 - You need ONLY the 4 control channels.
2 - If you hear them in FM mode, it is not trunking.
3 - After entering the last control channel, hit SCAN.

Now it will be trunking in OPEN mode. (a + sign under the bank number.
To hear only the Talk Groups (IDs) you have entered, it must be in CLOSED mode. ( a - sign under the bank number).

Yeah, just 1 (active) control channel is enough!
Yesterday I've cleared all the mixture in my 164 and entered just control channel. Now I can see all talkgroups & hear all the chit-chatings
So I came to conclusion that the scanner will jump to freq. it got from control channel, no matter if the freq. is programed in the scanner or not. Is this true to all other trunking system, or just to Moto. SmartNet? Because guides & how-tos I've got from Internet always say I need to enter all voice channels into the scanner (together with control channels) for it to begin trunktrack
Thank you for your time! Happy scanning

 

[DickH]

Yeah, just 1 (active) control channel is enough!
Yesterday I've cleared all the mixture in my 164 and entered just control channel. Now I can see all talkgroups & hear all the chit-chatings
So I came to conclusion that the scanner will jump to freq. it got from control channel, no matter if the freq. is programed in the scanner or not. Is this true to all other trunking system, or just to Moto. SmartNet? Because guides & how-tos I've got from Internet always say I need to enter all voice channels into the scanner (together with control channels) for it to begin trunktrack
Thank you for your time! Happy scanning

Yes, the control channel tells your scanner which freq. to tune to, in Motorola systems.
Be sure to enter ALL the control channels (usually 4) since they may change periodically.
Most trunking systems work basically the same. EDACS & LTR systems need all the freqs. entered.

 

[toanco_k32]

Hi everybody
It's me again. This time I have another question regarding Pro-164 and trunking system
The trunking system I've got here has controll channel on 855.xxx MHz,which I keyed into my Pro-164. I've got the scanner trunktrack and all frequencies show up are in 85x.xxx area.
Recently I tryed to search in 760 - 799 MHz, and to my suprise I've found several frequencies in 79x.xxx MHz that belong to the above-mentioned trunking system. I've put those freqs into another bank of my scanner and can hear a whole conversation going on 85x and 79x channels.
My question is why my scanner don't trunktrack to 79x channels? Is that a limitation of Pro-164 or did I miss something
Thank you for your time

 

[DickH]

Recently I tryed to search in 760 - 799 MHz, and to my suprise I've found several frequencies in 79x.xxx MHz that belong to the above-mentioned trunking system.

You did not say WHICH system you are monitoring. As far as I know, there are no systems that use both 800 and 700 MHz freqs. They are totally different systems.
Without knowing exactly which system, it is not possible to help you. State/city/county?

 

[toanco_k32]

You did not say WHICH system you are monitoring. As far as I know, there are no systems that use both 800 and 700 MHz freqs. They are totally different systems.
Without knowing exactly which system, it is not possible to help you. State/city/county?

The system is outside of the US. And yes, I'm pretty sure about 700 & 800 freqs combination of the system, based on content of several conversations, where one party on 700MHz and the other on 800 MHz

 

[gmclam]

Not a PRO-164 issue

The trunking system I've got here has control channel on 855.xxx MHz,which I keyed into my Pro-164. I've got the scanner trunktrack and all frequencies show up are in 85x.xxx area.

A system may use up to 4 different control channel frequencies. Some systems' CCs rarely change, others change frequently. Check the database here for the system you are monitoring, and be sure to program in all (up to 4) control channels for that system.

Once the PRO-164 is monitoring the control channel, from the data received it will calculate and select a voice channel for what you've programmed you want to hear. Sometimes a frequency will be co-used as voice and control (never simultaneously) otherwise you do not need to program voice channel frequencies in this scanner.

Recently I tryed to search in 760 - 799 MHz, and to my suprise I've found several frequencies in 79x.xxx MHz that belong to the above-mentioned trunking system.

What makes you say that? I'm certain you are incorrect. They MAY belong to the same agency. They MAY be broadcasting the same audio, but they can't be part of the same system. Determine an exact frequency of a control channel in that band and look it up in the database here.

My question is why my scanner don't trunktrack to 79x channels? Is that a limitation of Pro-164 or did I miss something

Because they are TWO separate systems. Sure they may be replicating the same audio, but they are two separate systems and need to be treated as such.

 

[toanco_k32]

A system may use up to 4 different control channel frequencies. Some systems' CCs rarely change, others change frequently. Check the database here for the system you are monitoring, and be sure to program in all (up to 4) control channels for that system.

1. The system is outside of the US, and you can't find a thing about that system in database.
2. I believe that I've got all 4 control channels. They switch the control channel sometime, but my scanner can trunktrack without any interruption. And when I can hear conversation in 700 MHz freqs it still trunktrack in 800 MHz with all talkgroup ID displayed, so there is no problem with control channel

What makes you say that? I'm certain you are incorrect. They MAY belong to the same agency. They MAY be broadcasting the same audio, but they can't be part of the same system. Determine an exact frequency of a control channel in that band and look it up in the database here.
Because they are TWO separate systems. Sure they may be replicating the same audio, but they are two separate systems and need to be treated as such.

Do you think that people who're using the system will change their handset everytime they need to talk? I can hear the same guy on both 700 & 800 MHz freqs, in a conversation with another guy on 800 MHz. When on 800 MHz, my scanner decode talkgroup ID without any problem, on 700 it can't, but based on the callname & human voice I can say for sure that its the same conversation.
And no, they don't replicate audio. 700 Mhz freqs behave just like they are a part of trunking system. Monitor only 700 MHz will give you only some part of conversation, jumping from 1 freq. to other freq. And trunktrack without 700MHz freqs also some time give you some conversation where you miss some part
I understand that there may be 2 systems linked together. But how can its handsets use 700 & 800 MHz freqs at the same time?

 

[puzzleriddle]

And most , if not all of the 700Mhz is p25 digital & the 164 i not a digital scanner.

 

[toanco_k32]

And most , if not all of the 700Mhz is p25 digital & the 164 i not a digital scanner.

Do you mean control channel is digital?
I tried to scan in 780-796 MHz but can find anything that sounds like control channel in that area

 

[DickH]

Do you mean control channel is digital?
I tried to scan in 780-796 MHz but can find anything that sounds like control channel in that area

OK, so you have an unusual system. Now what is your question?

 

[datainmotion]

As far as I know, there are no systems that use both 800 and 700 MHz freqs. They are totally different systems.

The State of Colorado DTRS has both 700 and 800 MHz sites and some sites even have both 700 and 800 MHz freqs on a single site.

 

[DickH]

The State of Colorado DTRS has both 700 and 800 MHz sites and some sites even have both 700 and 800 MHz freqs on a single site.

Thanks. I had no idea.

 

[hpycmpr]

The 780-796 MHz frequencies are the input frequencies to the regular 700 MHz band. Stick with the output frequencies and you will be happier.

Steve

 

[toanco_k32]

OK, so you have an unusual system. Now what is your question?

My question is: How can I force my Pro-164 to trunktrack the system correctly?
Current setup:
- 4 control channels in bank0, tracking in 800Mhz OK
- 6 freqs. in 700MHz area, scanning, in bank 1
It seems now I get the whole conversation most of the time.
Thank you for your time

 

[toanco_k32]

The 780-796 MHz frequencies are the input frequencies to the regular 700 MHz band. Stick with the output frequencies and you will be happier.

Steve

Can you clarify this a little bit more? Input & output freqs?
Thank you

 

[DickH]

Can you clarify this a little bit more? Input & output freqs?
Thank you

Portable and mobile units in the 700MHz band operate 30MHz higher than the repeaters. A repeater receives the low level signal from the mobiles and re-transmits it at higher power on another freq., so you want to monitor the repeateres, not the mobiles.
If a mobile is on 796MHz, you want to monitor 766MHz.
Here is the 700MHz band plan.
http://wireless.fcc.gov/auctions/data/bandplans/700band.pdf

 

[toanco_k32]

Portable and mobile units in the 700MHz band operate 30MHz higher than the repeaters. A repeater receives the low level signal from the mobiles and re-transmits it at higher power on another freq., so you want to monitor the repeateres, not the mobiles.
If a mobile is on 796MHz, you want to monitor 766MHz.
Here is the 700MHz band plan.
http://wireless.fcc.gov/auctions/data/bandplans/700band.pdf

Got it. So far I'm monitoring output freqs., since I can hear them in 40km radius area. I believe that no portable can transmit that far, so I'm listening to repeater's freqs.
And portable should be able to work on 700 & 800 MHz simultaneously, right? So far I can see that handsets in this system are (but may not be limited to) Motorola ATS2500, both with and without keypad version