PRO668 (PSR800 & WS1080?) Weak signal squelch problem

[Boatanchor]

OK guys, here's hoping that the right people read this and adjust future firmware to address this problem.

I can't confirm that this problem affects the GRE & Whistler units, although I have read comments from others that seem to point to at least the PSR800 being affected.

The problem is that the scanner will not stop on weak analogue (and presumably digital) signals when scanning, yet the same signals open the squelch when you manually select them.

Even if the squelch control is set to the very lowest position, before opening, the scanner skips over weak signals when scanning. Take the radio out of scan mode and manually select a channel and you can monitor without any squelch problems.

Others, please free to confirm on the other models.

 

[Whistle-Shack]

OK guys, here's hoping that the right people read this and adjust future firmware to address this problem.

I can't confirm that this problem affects the GRE & Whistler units, although I have read comments from others that seem to point to at least the PSR800 being affected.

The problem is that the scanner will not stop on weak analogue (and presumably digital) signals when scanning, yet the same signals open the squelch when you manually select them.

Even if the squelch control is set to the very lowest position, before opening, the scanner skips over weak signals when scanning. Take the radio out of scan mode and manually select a channel and you can monitor without any squelch problems.

Others, please free to confirm on the other models.

Sounds like an antenna issue,or operator error.

 

[troymail]

Might be they were shooting for the opposite of what the Uniden x36's do -- ensure consistent reception of activity that can be consistently received. In contrast, I find that the x36's "occasionally" stop on distant systems when they manage to receive a sufficient signal... but the reception is spotty (i.e. I won't hear a dispatch but I'll hear occasional fireground activity for that same call).

 

[Boy77777777777]

I have a pro 668 an have the same issue. I have tried different antennas with no luck.

 

[BeerNutz]

For over 4 years my PSR-800 has gotten great reception with squelch set at about 10 o'clock. Best scanner I have ever owned and now with a P2 coming to my area, it will continue to be for many years

 

[Boatanchor]

Sounds like an antenna issue,or operator error.

No operator error.

I can park on weak, slightly noisy analogue conventional channel and the squelch will open reliably at the 9 or 10 o-clock position. However, put the same radio in scan mode and it just skips over the weak busy channel/s. It completely ignores these weaker signals.

It is very annoying when scanning distant systems both using a base antenna and the rubber duck.

Find myself resorting to the Uniden scanners when I need to scan these systems.

There are a few things I like about the WS1080/PRO668 design, but this really does suck.

 

[ratboy]

I have noticed this more at work than at home. At work here, it's an RFI hell and the 668, and the 800 before it didn't like it. I have to run the squelch up about 9 o'clock or so, and it does miss stuff it seems that should be strong enough to get past the squelch and it does hear them if I manually stop on it. At home, it hears all kinds of weak VHF signals my PSR-500 and 106 miss, but at work, it just misses a lot of VHF HI (I have nothing on low band in my scanners anymore) signals, and strangely one really busy talkgroup on a local trunked system. It's a total mystery as to why, it hears everything else on that system, and I have wildcards set up anyway, but my 106 and 500 are talking away, and the 668 does nothing. For grins, I had a friend's PSR-800 yesterday and it did the same thing. A Bearcat 996 I have to replace the speaker in gets it fine. I have no clue what's going on.

 

[AA6IO]

What Boatanchor describes in his OP is one of the reasons I rank the performance of my WS-1080 inferior to that of all the other portable scanners in my list below. I have actually found the 1080 to do a better job breaking squelch on signals when first turn it on for maybe 15 minutes or so, then it seems like it begins to skip over a lot of channels/TG.
This, and the absolute PITA of trying to program different sites of mutliple trunk systems here in LA/Orange County that sometimes carry the same TGs, and sometimes, different TGs, make it difficult for me to get my 1080 in reasonable shape for the systems and flexibility I need. I actually find the PRO-106 to still be better. Certainly not the same features, but much less PITA factor.

 

[pro106import]

Yes the Squelch Hysteresis is rather high in the 668, I agree. There is more on this subject here:
http://forums.radioreference.com/uniden-thread-archives/269845-squelch-hysteresis-firmware.html

http://forums.radioreference.com/ge...6548-newbie-squelch-question.html#post1391226

Anybody want to attempt a mod? Anybody have a schematic? It is probably controlled by the firmware anyway, so no hardware mod would be possible. Have to hack the firmware.
Where is Whistle-Shack when we need him :roll:

 

[Boatanchor]

I suspect we won't be seeing any more official firmware support for the PRO668 as it looks like RS are now liquidating all existing stocks of this model from their online sales presence. And I doubt that anyone in the IScan firmware business will be in a position to offer any future unofficial support either, as this would likely be seen as conflicting with ongoing support for the other retained models.

 

[retropcdos]

The same issue you are having is one of the reason I am selling my Whistler WS1080, is due to notice this issue and notice I was picking up weaker analogue with no issue with my Uniden 436HP side by side. The WS1080 was just skipping over traffic and even when silent for a few seconds when clearly their was traffic. It not cause by priority setting.

For some reason assume that the Whistler WS1080 would be pickup weaker stations, as was one of the only scanners beside the pro106 and 396T I had during that time and had issue with the first batches of 536hp's that I ended up having to return, so had not much to compare it to and tons of traffic I Finding out that clearly not the case now that I have a Uniden 436hp and Whistler WS1080 and the Whistler WS1080, or R/S Pro-668 is not as good as most people make them out to be,

The major issues I having is notice the Whistler has issues with Intermodulation interference and also a weird thumping sound on certain frequencies and try using even stock duck it come with, didn't fix the issues. The Uniden 436hp don't have these issues being on same desk and did try them side by side and one at a time.

The issue when in high RF area, notice when out of the city Whistler works better, but in city it performance is rather poor . Also notice pretty much unusable at all in office, or server room. Even the new 325p2 didn't notice these issues. I hate to say it, but the Uniden's seem to be better, it was the early batch that seem to have issues, but new ones seem to work great, The 436hp is much louder and clearer in volume to. I have to turn the R/S-668 to 28-30, which is pretty much max to hear in in a room with other people talking in the background and fan noise, where the 436hp only up to 8.

 

[Ed6698]

For over 4 years my PSR-800 has gotten great reception with squelch set at about 10 o'clock. Best scanner I have ever owned and now with a P2 coming to my area, it will continue to be for many years

I have to agree with you as far as the best scanner I have ever owned, I have the WS1080 though. I live in a area with a lot of RF, currently have 17 PD and FD in the county, hospitals, cell towers, I live right in the middle of a 4 Tower Simulcast system and the WS1080 performs very well. I leave my squelch setting right at the 10 o'clock mark. No tweaks or anything, radio performed right out of the box.

 

[Boatanchor]

What Boatanchor describes in his OP is one of the reasons I rank the performance of my WS-1080 inferior to that of all the other portable scanners in my list below. I have actually found the 1080 to do a better job breaking squelch on signals when first turn it on for maybe 15 minutes or so, then it seems like it begins to skip over a lot of channels/TG.
This, and the absolute PITA of trying to program different sites of mutliple trunk systems here in LA/Orange County that sometimes carry the same TGs, and sometimes, different TGs, make it difficult for me to get my 1080 in reasonable shape for the systems and flexibility I need. I actually find the PRO-106 to still be better. Certainly not the same features, but much less PITA factor.

It is kind of funny too because when I put my PRO668 on my HP8920 service monitor and complete sensitivity tests, it is actually a few dB down (worse) on every band compared to the 396XT and 436HP. So, anyone that says this scanner is more sensitive than the Uniden scanners is blowing wind out their proverbial. Sensitivity effects digital as well as analogue reception of weak signals.

At the end of the day, the squelch on my 668 won't open in scan mode until the signal exceeds -115dBm or around 0.4uV, which is pretty piss poor for any modern receiver.

For comparison, the squelch on my 396XT will open at -120dBm or 0.22uV and the 12dB Sinad point is considerably better on the Uniden.

That said, the PRO668 does indeed have better recovered P25 audio than any of my Uniden scanners, so it does have at least one redeeming factor

 

[retropcdos]

It is kind of funny too because when I put my PRO668 on my HP8920 service monitor and complete sensitivity tests, it is actually a few dB down (worse) on every band compared to the 396XT and 436HP. So, anyone that says this scanner is more sensitive than the Uniden scanners is blowing wind out their proverbial. Sensitivity effects digital as well as analogue reception of weak signals.

At the end of the day, the squelch on my 668 won't open in scan mode until the signal exceeds -115dBm or around 0.4uV, which is pretty piss poor for any modern receiver.

For comparison, the squelch on my 396XT will open at -120dBm or 0.22uV and the 12dB Sinad point is considerably better on the Uniden.

That said, the PRO668 does indeed have better recovered P25 audio than any of my Uniden scanners, so it does have at least one redeeming factor

You hit the nail on the head. Do happen to have that same model HP Communications Tester and a loaded Rohde & Schwarz CMU200. The Uniden pull in way more and I notice that just doing a side by side comparison test last week. This issue with the front end design, no firmware will fix that I actually find the Uniden recover P25 audio better, just the audio quality on the Whistler is a little better then the 536hp, but not the 436hp. I think that because the down firing speaker on the 536hp. I think they change something on the later batches 436hp and 536hp? The early 536hp had sensitivity and other issues, even with a tuned antenna with analyzer, the new 536hp I just receive a couple days ago work great, no sensitivity issues and using stock antenna,

As much as I wanted to like the Whistler WS1080 after last week and doing that side by side test The Uniden is a better receiver and being the test result you did also prove that. The only thing Whistler I like better is the form factor as doesn't tip over easy on work bench and 4 AA batteries and built quality not bad and seems reliable, just not that good of a performer. The way everyone make it sound, I assume it was going to be better, but finding out that not the case. Now that I have the 536hp in my work area, so having long battery life no longer a issue and have a 436hp, 325p2 and have a couple of R/S Pro- 668's, which is the same as the WS1080, The Whistler and maybe the R/S pro-668's may get sold, I may keep them around, but don't see the point as have the other HT's, rather use the money and get another base unit for that area.

 

[Ed6698]

Another fellow member has some actual numbers from a test.

http://forums.radioreference.com/gr...ler-1080-psr800-psr500-bcd436hp-shootout.html

 

[retropcdos]

Another fellow member has some actual numbers from a test.

http://forums.radioreference.com/gr...ler-1080-psr800-psr500-bcd436hp-shootout.html

One thing I can say for sure as own early batches of Uniden. Something change with early batches and new batches of the x36 series of scanners. The early batch when they first came out had noticeable issues with sensitivity, barely could pickup local PD and had SD issues. Had to return three and just returned the last one and waited a few months and use my PSR-800 and then bought the Whistler WS1080 recently instead during the time.

Fast forward to now the 2 month old Uniden 436hp outperform the Whistler in almost every aspect and so does the new 325hp and 536hp I receive a few days ago. Just doing a side by side real world test last week show me that. The whistler just skip over a lot of traffic, or would come in mid transmission. The Uniden just pickup way more and was quite noticeable. Not even getting into p25 recover audio just in standard analog UHF conventional and even VHF did better as didn't have the strange thumping and distortion on the Uniden. The Whistler WS1080 had a very low thumping sound in background and distortion on certain traffic, that with IF out turn off. The uniden same traffic signal was pretty much clear. I can even do a video showing this and yes did even try them separate so one receiver won't effect the other performance to rule that out. Plus the IF filtering on the Uniden is much better, so doesn't overload as easy, or pickup interference as bad as the WS1080 use a older crude design., which I knew before buying the radio, but bought it due to issues I had with the early x36 radios and couldn't wait at the time, so when with the GRE/Whistler.

 

[SOFA_KING]

You hit the nail on the head. Do happen to have that same model HP Communications Tester and a loaded Rohde & Schwarz CMU200. The Uniden pull in way more and I notice that just doing a side by side comparison test last week. This issue with the front end design, no firmware will fix that I actually find the Uniden recover P25 audio better, just the audio quality on the Whistler is a little better then the 536hp, but not the 436hp. I think that because the down firing speaker on the 536hp. I think they change something on the later batches 436hp and 536hp? The early 536hp had sensitivity and other issues, even with a tuned antenna with analyzer, the new 536hp I just receive a couple days ago work great, no sensitivity issues and using stock antenna,

As much as I wanted to like the Whistler WS1080 after last week and doing that side by side test The Uniden is a better receiver and being the test result you did also prove that. The only thing Whistler I like better is the form factor as doesn't tip over easy on work bench and 4 AA batteries and built quality not bad and seems reliable, just not that good of a performer. The way everyone make it sound, I assume it was going to be better, but finding out that not the case. Now that I have the 536hp in my work area, so having long battery life no longer a issue and have a 436hp, 325p2 and have a couple of R/S Pro- 668's, which is the same as the WS1080, The Whistler and maybe the R/S pro-668's may get sold, I may keep them around, but don't see the point as have the other HT's, rather use the money and get another base unit for that area.

Both of you are correct. But the real problem with the front end is RF overload. That has been a problem with all GRE designed scanners from day one. Not a problem for folks away from FM broadcast, but a VHF hi band killer near FM stations. Even though I have to run FM TRAP FILTERS on my GRE scanners, the WS 1080 still has issues. It's worse than the older models. I need two traps to get the overload reduced enough to be even with the older designed models like the WS 1040. Without an FM trap, I get nothing on hi band. Even local WX is very noisy.

This is one area Whistler will need to improve. Consequently, Uniden upped the receiver performance and is rejecting overload...and even better on IM now than older models. The x36 scanners are getting good P25 weak signal decode, where the GRE with filters fails.

 

[minasha]

As far as sensitivity and digital decoding are the Whistler 1080 and pro-668 the same?
My complaint with the pro-668 is the p25 decode goes from clear to robotic if you move the scanner a few inches on weaker channels and the phase 2 is much louder than the Phase 1,
The difference in price is about $200 more for a whistler 1080 is it a waste of money and time?

Thank You

 

[Triangulum]

The difference in price is about $200 more for a whistler 1080 is it a waste of money and time?

They are basically the same radio. The Pro-668 is a Whistler 1080 in RadioShack clothing.

There are a couple small differences between them. Such as the 1080's ability to manually enter a frequency directly from the menu or having a gold plated BNC connector. Also as of right now its had more consistent firmware updates and will continue to if the need arises. Its possible RadioShack models may get future firmware updates through Whistler as well (since its manufactured by them), but its not a guarantee yet.

But you shouldn't be able to tell much difference from a radio performance perspective. They are basically the same radio.

So to answer your question directly.... It would be a waste of money and time to buy the 1080 and expect a difference in radio performance from your 668 experience.

 

[ratboy]

I had a friend's 1080 yesterday and I was playing with settings on my 668 and comparing them with each other, and found something very odd. At work last night, I had 4 scanners going at the same time, the 668 and the 1080, and my 106 and PSR500. the 668 and 1080 were programmed with the same config, and the 106 and 500 were set up the same as each other too. I made up a config with only MARCS and MARCSIP and the local Lucas County Ohio trunked system. As far as I could see, the performance on these systems was almost identical, once I moved all 4 radios around to find the "Sweet spot" for each one. The 106/500 pair received everything, as far as I could tell, but occasionally, at random, the 1080 and 668 would mute at the beginning of transmissions, then unmute several seconds along, and then receive normally for a while, then do it again. The dead periods lasted about 5 seconds or so. Once in a while, both the 668 and 1080 would both do it on the same transmission at the same time, but usually, it would happen randomly. Just to make sure it wasn't something I had set or done, I reset the 1080 to the out of the box settings, and scanned by location, and it still did it. It's not signal related, these systems have a very strong signal and are pretty much full quieting. I also sat on the dispatcher for South Toledo, since it's very busy, and they would mute about 10% of the time for about 5 seconds each, counting, "One thousand one, etc" Right now, at work, the 668 has done it a couple of times, while the PSR500 is getting everything. Squelch settings have no effect, in case someone was wondering.