R30 performance with simulcast?

wb4sqi

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Yeah, that is weird since there are other R30's that work fine on small simulcast trunked systems. I have not noticed that the fast scanning speed has any affect on decoding P25. Maybe there is something different in the system you are trying to monitor that we haven't accounted for?
 

kc5igh

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My D.SQL setting is already OFF (is that the default mode?), and it hasn't made a difference.

This afternoon, if I have a little more time, I may try doing the opposite and program the NAC to match the NAC I that I think I may be seeing on a signal coming through on one of my stopped channels.

Certainly worth a try . . . thanks.
The R30 says the NAC for this system is 014, if I remember correctly. Programming the NAC numbers into the memory channels and turning on the D.SQL setting didn't seem to work either.
 

kc5igh

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Yeah, that is weird since there are other R30's that work fine on small simulcast trunked systems. I have not noticed that the fast scanning speed has any affect on decoding P25. Maybe there is something different in the system you are trying to monitor that we haven't accounted for?
Agreed. If other people around the country are receiving simulcast signals reasonably well, it seems that my R30 should work, too.

Of course, there are all sorts of variables at play that make for different reception experiences between systems. The system I'm trying to monitor is a Harris P25 Phase 1 trunked system in the federal trunked frequency range (406 to 420 MHz). I'm about 35 miles away from both of the transmitters I'm aware of (there may be a third transmitter up there by now, but I'm not certain of that), and I receive everything loud and clear on my SDS100 and G5. My home gives me a clear line-of-sight to the two transmitters mentioned above, and the signals are very strong and clear, even when I'm mobile (with the exception of a couple of a couple of shadow spots I encounter as I drive toward the facility).

I also receive many (but definitely not all) signals from the same system on my BCD436HP, BCD325P2, TRX-1, and several other P25 trunked system receivers, but certainly not as well as I do with the SDS100 and G5. My R30's inability to hear anything at all while in memory scan mode is what baffles me in view of all my other receivers' ability to hear something, even if it's not perfect. This experience is what leads me to suspect the R30's scanning speed may have something to do with it, because I don't believe any of those other radios can move through their memory channels as fast as the R30 seems to. My R30 is currently the only "non-trunked" P25 receiver in my arsenal . . . all those other radios are trunked-system receivers, which may have something to do with it, as well.

I'll keep searching for and tinkering with other settings and adjustments in the R30 that may be contributing to my issues, and I'll post my findings.

Thanks for all the thoughts, suggestions, and ideas!
 

kruser

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I wonder if there is just enough LSM that it's messing up your R30's chance at decoding anything as it scans by an active voice channel?
I monitor a couple P25 Harris systems here that are not simulcast and my R30 stops on the voice channels perfectly.
The R30s do seem to handle LSM better than most scanners but perhaps they are still not perfect.

Maybe if I get the time, I'll program in the voice channels of our local county system which I never did before as it is a very busy system.
It's also mostly encrypted but the R30 seems to mute that very well so maybe I can test the R30 on this large simulcast system with the fire and public works talkgroups that are in the clear.
 

kc5igh

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I wonder if there is just enough LSM that it's messing up your R30's chance at decoding anything as it scans by an active voice channel?

Maybe if I get the time, I'll program in the voice channels of our local county system which I never did before as it is a very busy system.
It's also mostly encrypted but the R30 seems to mute that very well so maybe I can test the R30 on this large simulcast system with the fire and public works talkgroups that are in the clear.
Thanks for looking into this, kruser; let me know what happens.
 

kruser

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Thanks for looking into this, kruser; let me know what happens.
I did mess with this but not as much as I'd have liked.
For our P25 NON simulcast site, the R30 locks on every voice channel perfectly when they talk. This includes a Harris 800 MHz P25 system as well as a Motorola VHF P25 system.

On our countywide system which is a Motorola 7/800 simulcast system, the R30 did miss active channels and just scanned right past even though a scanner that does not do well with simulcast was also stopped and hearing the talk.
The R30 did not miss everything though and caught about 80% or more of active voice channels on the busy simulcast system which is a 21 channel system.
I also played with RF gain but nothing seemed to really help.
Had you not brought this up, I'd have probably never noticed it! I don't really use the R30 all that much for the simulcast site and use it more for the power companies Harris site during storm outages. The R30 works fantastic for the utility as they are easy to follow on a small 8 channel site plus the battery life of the R30 does not compare to some of my scanner type radios.

I still have some Starcom sites to try from Illinois as soon as the reception improves when the leaves fall. That's a pretty active system there and may be a good test for the R30. Right now, reception is not the best due to the foliage still on the trees.
 

kc5igh

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I did mess with this but not as much as I'd have liked.
For our P25 NON simulcast site, the R30 locks on every voice channel perfectly when they talk. This includes a Harris 800 MHz P25 system as well as a Motorola VHF P25 system.
Thanks for looking into this, Kruser. That's helpful information.

Unlike your experience, my R30 seems deaf to all signals on my simulcast system when it's in scan mode. Like your radio, my R30 does indeed receive non-simulcast signals very well . . .

I'm going to keep on experimenting with different settings to see why this is so.

Thanks again!

-Johnnie
 

bearcatrp

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I have 2 settings for P25 in my area. One is to scan between the low end and high end of frequencies in my area and the other I program the simulcast sites into memory from my area. Scanning between frequencies is almost deaf, scanning the frequencies programmed in memory works great though. Have about 20 frequencies programmed in memory.
 

wa8pyr

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An update, the R30 is doing better following the system. I believe it was not holding the frequency long enough to decode a reply. I set the pause on hold and the resume on 4 seconds. I feel like I’m just scratching the surface of its capability.
Assuming you're talking about Clermont County/MARCS. . . it's a Motorola P25 system, and a 3-second hang time on trunked voice channels is typically the default. When a user unkeys their radio, the channel will hang for 3 seconds waiting for a reply. It's called Message Trunking (as opposed to Transmission Trunking, which moves to a new channel for every transmission).
 

kc5igh

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I have 2 settings for P25 in my area. One is to scan between the low end and high end of frequencies in my area and the other I program the simulcast sites into memory from my area. Scanning between frequencies is almost deaf, scanning the frequencies programmed in memory works great though. Have about 20 frequencies programmed in memory.
Hello, bearcatrp.

I've actually programmed my system the same way you have with scan range settings and 14 output frequencies programmed as memory channels. No joy either way, although my R30 will receive signals clearly if I stop and hold on any of the memory channels. I've noted that some folks are reporting better results with longer hang times, so I'll give that a try when I have a moment.

If if makes a difference, I'm trying to listen to a 14-channel Harris P25 simulcast system. It comes through beautifully on my Uniden SDS100 and Unication G5, so my world won't end if the R30 can't hear anything, but I'm really curious about why my experience seems to be different from virtually everyone else's I've read about.

Thanks!
 

bearcatrp

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My pause timer is set for 12 seconds, resume timer is set for hold. Try that. I do put all the frequencies from a specific town besides the simulcast frequencies.
 

N4DJC

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Assuming you're talking about Clermont County/MARCS. . . it's a Motorola P25 system, and a 3-second hang time on trunked voice channels is typically the default. When a user unkeys their radio, the channel will hang for 3 seconds waiting for a reply. It's called Message Trunking (as opposed to Transmission Trunking, which moves to a new channel for every transmission).
It's in Anderson County South Carolina.
 
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