Radios for situational awareness?

[KB2GOM]

I agree with the view/perspective that communications are a force multiplier, both 2 way communications and simply monitoring things. I also believe that its important to know your gear, environment, and what your goal or mission is. This forum is full of really cool radio gadgets, but do you know how to use what you have? Do you know how to use what's readily available?

Like many on this forum, I simultaneously have too many radios and not enough radios at the same time. Over the years I've used various combinations of them to achieve my goal. Some times its a cheap Chinese radio like the Baofeng, and sometimes its an ultra spiffy expensive thing. But it still comes down to knowing what is out there and how to use the gear you have with you at the time.

There are many great suggestions in this thread for what to listen to. I traditionally gravitate towards non obvious sources of information on the radio waves. For example, if I'm interested in road conditions or how a storm is impacting the area I'm in. I've discovered that a certain concrete / gravel companies radio system is very informative to listen to in addition to the City Bus and City Snow plow talk group.

As another example when ever I'm around/near/attending large events, I try to find the various radio systems/freqs in use for the event and monitor those. There have been many instances where I learn about a situation before the "general public" of the event because I'm monitoring the command/ops radio channel and I can CHOOSE how I'm going to ACT for that situation.

Those are great points. Far better to REALLY know how to use what you have . . . than to chase the new, new thing.

For 27 years, I have run a commuter assistance network on 2 meters. As part of that, I use scanners, and I am constantly attempting to tweak that setup so that I hear what I need to hear and don't hear (or at least am not distracted by) irrelevant stuff.

There is a famous trainer who says: "Don't do stupid stuff; don't go stupid places; don't hang out with stupid people." Your monitoring of radio systems used at an event speaks to that; if a venue is about to get "stupid," it's time to leave.

 

[MississippiPI]

Folk always acting stupid and something always going on here around where I live and work. I don't want to knowingly get caught up in something

 

[krokus]

There are two times that using radios for situational awareness saved me a lot of hassle and/or time, countless times it just made life easier.

One time, while driving from Michigan to the Seattle area, the CB lit up about lane closures, with a multi mile backup. I got in with a group of truckers, led by one that knew a surface road bypass. I figured that saved me about two hours of sitting in traffic.

More recently, while I was westbound on an expressway, I heard the FD dispatched to a gravel train versus pedestrian, a few miles up the road. Even though the incident was on the eastbound side, I knew the gawker affect would be an issue, so I got off the expressway.

 

[Rt169Radio]

One of the things I use some of my radios for, is to get a heads up if the volunteer FD I'm with might possibly get toned out for a call. I monitor my local PD, career FD and Ambulance service to do that.

So I guess in a way my radios give me "Situational Awareness"

 

[gmclam]

I find the "average citizen" will hear a siren then want to listen to find out what's it's about. That doesn't usually work. You need to be listening so that you will anticipate the response. Of course, listening is situational awareness (unless you're doing something like DXing).

 

[MUTNAV]

Even Dxing can give a degree of situational awareness...

If I understand it correctly (what I've been told), prior to a military coup, the local radio stations tend to play "patriotic music"

and it can give a cultural sense of awareness about how a country or area normally is, so that when something is going on, differences are noticed. Kind of like when walking into a market, or a bad part of town, it 'feels' different.

Thanks
Joel

 

[paulears]

Before a dangerous nand possibly fatal coup takes place, they call the local radio station and put a request in for patriotic music? Seriously? TSHTF makes us Brits smile. There's virtually nothing to listen to on scanners that would be remotely similar to the US need to be ready and able to stand on your own, defend the homestead and wait for Tina Turner and Mad Max? It's a cultural thing, but we just cannot comprehend this at all. We complain about our political leaders, but at the end of the day, we have no choice but to trust them.

We do horde - this week eggs are short because a TV news clip mentioned there would be a shortage of eggs, so the local supermarket now bands more than 3 boxes - 18 eggs. We cannot believe people are stocking up on eggs. All the younger people have dumped cash and now use plastic 100%, so here in an emergency, they'd have no money, no bartering possibilities and the local hams would still be talking about what cereal they have for breakfast.

 

[MUTNAV]

Before a dangerous nand possibly fatal coup takes place, they call the local radio station and put a request in for patriotic music? Seriously? TSHTF makes us Brits smile. There's virtually nothing to listen to on scanners that would be remotely similar to the US need to be ready and able to stand on your own, defend the homestead and wait for Tina Turner and Mad Max? It's a cultural thing, but we just cannot comprehend this at all. We complain about our political leaders, but at the end of the day, we have no choice but to trust them.

We do horde - this week eggs are short because a TV news clip mentioned there would be a shortage of eggs, so the local supermarket now bands more than 3 boxes - 18 eggs. We cannot believe people are stocking up on eggs. All the younger people have dumped cash and now use plastic 100%, so here in an emergency, they'd have no money, no bartering possibilities and the local hams would still be talking about what cereal they have for breakfast.

Ok... Leaving the interesting political concepts out of it, (in reality, neither of us speak for more than ourselves).

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/19/1029437787/in-1991-soviet-citizens-saw-swans-on-the-tv-and-knew-it-meant-turmoil

Aside from that, three boxes is 18 eggs in England,? I admit sometimes I've seen 6 eggs per box for sale, but usually it's an even dozen, although I get 18 in a single container.

Thanks
Joel

 

[mmckenna]

We do horde - this week eggs are short because a TV news clip mentioned there would be a shortage of eggs, so the local supermarket now bands more than 3 boxes - 18 eggs. We cannot believe people are stocking up on eggs. All the younger people have dumped cash and now use plastic 100%, so here in an emergency, they'd have no money, no bartering possibilities and the local hams would still be talking about what cereal they have for breakfast.

The hoarding thing is always kind of interesting.
People preparing for the end of civilization, SHTF, whatever, but they'll panic if they can't get eggs, or toilet paper, or whatever. I'm surprised people are not more resilient and adaptive.
When it comes to hoarding, it's not about being prepared, it's about being afraid of a bit of discomfort or inconvenience. Considering how far humans have come in a million years, it's funny to think that most can't survive a few days without eggs.

 

[MUTNAV]

The hoarding thing is always kind of interesting.
People preparing for the end of civilization, SHTF, whatever, but they'll panic if they can't get eggs, or toilet paper, or whatever. I'm surprised people are not more resilient and adaptive.
When it comes to hoarding, it's not about being prepared, it's about being afraid of a bit of discomfort or inconvenience. Considering how far humans have come in a million years, it's funny to think that most can't survive a few days without eggs.

Maybe hoarding is something deep in our minds, sometimes the switch to turn it off doesn't function and you get the subject of shows about hoarders, there are religious that object to "inordinate attachments" I'm guessing based on the idea that it is so bad for people,

Even Backpackers have to go through paring down though, I suppose it's easier when you have to carry every single ounce yourself.

I do have to point out that it's possible people hoard things like toilet paper because they never really had to do without a lot of things before (possible explanation, I don't know how legitimate it is),

This would be different than the egg hoarding though, it seems unwise to hoard a perishable like that.
I have to wonder that there is a possibility that the people actually are eating the eggs. Eighteen eggs doesn't seem like much if you make some of your own dinners and have an actual family to feed.

Still trying to figure out why there would be an egg shortage to begin with, did they have to cull the chickens due to the flu or something?

Thanks
Joel

 

[mmckenna]

Maybe hoarding is something deep in our minds, sometimes the switch to turn it off doesn't function and you get the subject of shows about hoarders, there are religious that object to "inordinate attachments" I'm guessing based on the idea that it is so bad for people,

Even Backpackers have to go through paring down though, I suppose it's easier when you have to carry every single ounce yourself.

I tend to travel light and will periodically clean things out that I no longer need. Other than my tools, I could probably easily fit all my belongings in my truck and drive away. I did take a load to the dump last weekend of stuff that accumulated and didn't need. Felt pretty good.
On the flip side, my wife had some issues in her childhood, and she tends to hang on to everything. Not hoarding TV show bad, but it could easily get there. I used to have an office. It's now her storage room...

I do have to point out that it's possible people hoard things like toilet paper because they never really had to do without a lot of things before (possible explanation, I don't know how legitimate it is),

I think this is right. A lot of people are raised that way, they've rarely have to do without.
I kind of like toilet paper, though.

This would be different than the egg hoarding though, it seems unwise to hoard a perishable like that.
I have to wonder that there is a possibility that the people actually are eating the eggs. Eighteen eggs doesn't seem like much if you make some of your own dinners and have an actual family to feed.

Still trying to figure out why there would be an egg shortage to begin with, did they have to cull the chickens due to the flu or something?

Likely illnesses where they have to cull the flock. Happened 30 years ago around here with a big turkey ranch. Had to kill off tens of thousands of birds. Everyone panicked because they thought they wouldn't get turkey for Thanksgiving dinner. Yet we all survived.

What I don't get is the prepper thing where they assume they are going to be the ones to repopulate the earth with people that all look, act and behave the same, but they cannot survive without specific products.

Personally I'd put my faith in the avid outdoorsman, gardener and those that can actually fix things. They'll be the ones that would make a scenario like that work. I had a coworker who's wife would often dive into this stuff. At some point I was on her "list" as people to pull into an imaginary bunker. I guess she felt I was useful because I could fix things and generally take care of myself outdoors. Not being a burden and being able to provide into a greater good was the important part. I think many "preppers" assume that they'll survive via violence and taking what they need from the weak. That would only work until someone stops them, which would eventually happen.

As for radios and situational awareness, it depends on what you want to be aware of, and how much you actually need to be aware of. Too much information can make it hard to filter down to the important stuff. With the last bunch of years we've had, people don't seem to care about getting accurate information. The desire seems to be finding information that supports preconceived beliefs. That s**t is easy to find anywhere. No one needs a special radio for that.

Living in earthquake country, AM radio has always been there for us. When local stations are out, there's enough stations outside the area that get in with news and updates.

 

[paulears]

Yep, eggs have always been in half dozens, you can buy them in big trays, but most people just buy in 6’s.

 

[MUTNAV]

Personally I'd put my faith in the avid outdoorsman, gardener and those that can actually fix things. They'll be the ones that would make a scenario like that work. I had a coworker who's wife would often dive into this stuff. At some point I was on her "list" as people to pull into an imaginary bunker. I guess she felt I was useful because I could fix things and generally take care of myself outdoors. Not being a burden and being able to provide into a greater good was the important part. I think many "preppers" assume that they'll survive via violence and taking what they need from the weak. That would only work until someone stops them, which would eventually happen.

I agree, with the providing into the greater good part (that means different things depending on a persons outlook) the way I see it is more like when a person in a large group has to relocate, what do they bring with them that can help the community (such as skills), no one can effectively do everything long term, that is when people that are a little specialized (gardening, woodworking, sewing, sailing, animal husbandry etc..) really become valuable to each other.

Even looking back at the mayflower compac in its first year, letters from the leader showed that woman didn't want to "dress another mans meat" (that probably requires translation for todays use of words).

Woman needed to do it because, even in a small community (even a household) task specialization happens. I didn't think much of it until it was mentioned that some soldiers died during the civil war because, even though they might be able to kill some food of opportunity, preparing it for safe consumption wasn't something taught to many of them.

As for radios and situational awareness, it depends on what you want to be aware of, and how much you actually need to be aware of. Too much information can make it hard to filter down to the important stuff.

I agree about the too much information, even without conflicting information (not opinions, actual information) analyses paralyses is a real thing. Anyone not understanding how that can work needs to consider investing some money in stocks, just using the data, (don't worry about opinions), it can be tough to sort through and weigh the relevant information. This is different than the fog of war, where whomever paints the clearest picture with just a little murky information is more likely to win.

I don't think I can really get enough inormation from just AM radio, I have family in lots of different places, and I need thier situation, and travel information and what is open and closed, I'm thinking AM/FM/NOAA C.B. and Ham might be best for getting the information I think I may need (want).

Thanks
Joel

 

[MUTNAV]

Yep, eggs have always been in half dozens, you can buy them in big trays, but most people just buy in 6’s.

I guess it's just one of those country differences. It's funny (meaning notable) to me that it's either 6 or a whole tray (I assume a gross).

Thanks
Joel

 

[paulears]

A gross? Wow no. The most in a tray at the local supermarket is 15. 6 and sometimes a dozen are common.
Back to the topic
In old movies we saw here in the UK, did the US Government actually have a sort of TV and radio channel for emergency use? I assume that's long gone? I actually read 'situational awareness' as something totally different, so I have learnt quite a bit. I'm not aware of anything remotely like it in Europe? I guess the Swiss hung onto their home bunkers, but I'm not aware of anybody here having special rooms or stores for emergency use? In fact, when the Cold War finished, all our civil defence Government sites were shut down, sold off and many built upon. We have nothing left. We actually had people who were callee County Emergency Planning Officers, and they had staff. Now, the post still exists, but it's a tiny part of the workload of a junior civil servant. Most are so young they weren't around in the Cold War. Food supplies were stored in the 80s, but I suspect these have long gone now.

 

[mmckenna]

A gross? Wow no. The most in a tray at the local supermarket is 15. 6 and sometimes a dozen are common.
Back to the topic
In old movies we saw here in the UK, did the US Government actually have a sort of TV and radio channel for emergency use?

CONELRAD - Wikipedia is probably what you are thinking of. Long gone...

I assume that's long gone? I actually read 'situational awareness' as something totally different, so I have learnt quite a bit. I'm not aware of anything remotely like it in Europe? I guess the Swiss hung onto their home bunkers, but I'm not aware of anybody here having special rooms or stores for emergency use? In fact, when the Cold War finished, all our civil defence Government sites were shut down, sold off and many built upon. We have nothing left. We actually had people who were callee County Emergency Planning Officers, and they had staff. Now, the post still exists, but it's a tiny part of the workload of a junior civil servant. Most are so young they weren't around in the Cold War. Food supplies were stored in the 80s, but I suspect these have long gone now.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

I find the "average citizen" will hear a siren then want to listen to find out what's it's about. That doesn't usually work. You need to be listening so that you will anticipate the response. Of course, listening is situational awareness (unless you're doing something like DXing).

If you have a scanner with replay option or record to an instant playback device you can become better aware.

 

[MUTNAV]

A gross? Wow no. The most in a tray at the local supermarket is 15. 6 and sometimes a dozen are common.
Back to the topic
In old movies we saw here in the UK, did the US Government actually have a sort of TV and radio channel for emergency use? I assume that's long gone? I actually read 'situational awareness' as something totally different, so I have learnt quite a bit. I'm not aware of anything remotely like it in Europe? I guess the Swiss hung onto their home bunkers, but I'm not aware of anybody here having special rooms or stores for emergency use? In fact, when the Cold War finished, all our civil defence Government sites were shut down, sold off and many built upon. We have nothing left. We actually had people who were callee County Emergency Planning Officers, and they had staff. Now, the post still exists, but it's a tiny part of the workload of a junior civil servant. Most are so young they weren't around in the Cold War. Food supplies were stored in the 80s, but I suspect these have long gone now.

I'm not positive, but I think the Swiss still have their very large bunkers, it was apparently their policy to shelter their entire population, and although downsized, I understand it is still very credible.

The forgotten underground world of Swiss bunkers

What's it like to go inside what was once the biggest civilian bunker in the world?

www.swissinfo.ch

In the US people that sell shelters gravitate towards the very high quality Swiss air systems because of the Swiss bomb shelter reputation.

In the U.S. although the shelters are frequently touted as fallout shelters, they are more likely to be used for storm shelters. A tornado with 250+ MPH winds will destroy almost all above ground houses (although there are safe rooms designed to protect occupants in those situations). and after everything is said and done, they can provide a place to live while trying to rebuild.

This company is one of those that make shelters for various purposes.

Catalog - Atlas Survival Shelters

Atlas proudly presents a Catalog of groundbreaking innovations in survival shelters, revolutionizing the industry with their exceptional features and functionality.

atlassurvivalshelters.com

Since root cellars aren't popular anymore, some people feel the need for the equivalent space to store - - whatever - - guns, wine, snacks, in laws (they can be used as a guest room sometimes).

Although Conelrad is gone, the government has NOAA weather radio that can transmit emergency messages, as well as they can take over all of the local TV and radio channels to broadcast alerts and warnings of various types all the way down to Amber alerts (abducted child), if they have enough information they put it out and everyone on every highway in range of the station is going to be looking for the car involved, as well as "silver" alerts, which is an elderly person that has wandered off, so that everyone can be on the lookout for them.

On 4 October there is going to be a national test of the different ways of contacting people in an emergency, down to the cell phone level.

FEMA and FCC Plan Nationwide Emergency Alert Test for Oct. 4, 2023

Normally the more local tests are done on a monthly basis (and are really irritating if done during a show that l like).

For situational awareness purposes though. Every-ones needs and wants are probably a little different. During a power outage, I would like to know if gas stations two towns over have gas or not, and if there grocery stores are open. Regular FM/AM news stations aren't helpful with that info. With a larger, more regional problem (like the Quebec power outage that took out power to the northeast US for awhile

Northeast blackout of 1965 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

or this one, that I got watch as a kid (from NJ).

New York City blackout of 1977 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

or more recently

Northeast blackout of 2003 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Either living through these kind s of things, or just reading about them, you can get the idea of why people want information about loved ones andgenerally what is happening. Personally , I want to know my families plans and if they want to come to my house (or vice-versa), and when the people in elevators or on trains are back to safety...

Thanks
Joel

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Either living through these kind s of things, or just reading about them, you can get the idea of why people want information about loved ones andgenerally what is happening. Personally , I want to know my families plans and if they want to come to my house (or vice-versa), and when the people in elevators or on trains are back to safety...

Thanks
Joel

I lived in NJ during the 1965 NYC blackout. The big 2003 NE blackout occurred just as I got off a plane that landed in Florida, after our week vacation in NYC. I wondered if it was something I did!

 

[mmckenna]

I wondered if it was something I did!

Tripped over the extension cord when you left, huh?

Back on 'situational awareness" and radios….
We had some localized flooding late last year that did a huge amount of damage to my inlaws home. It was localized, as within a few blocks. Getting information on that was difficult. The local PD/FD was there, but they didn't have much in the way of useful info themselves other than "it flooded". Issue was localized enough that even the local TV news stations took almost a full 24 hours to figure it out.

Relying on scanners or broadcast news isn't a guarantee that you'll get useful or even up to date information. Sometimes it takes the public officials quite a bit of time to figure out what is happening. Larger scale events are going to be so confusing that trying to listen to all the scanner traffic is going to be overwhelming.

Situational awareness should start in a 10 foot circle around you, and then adapt as needed. "Start where you are, use what you have, do what you can".