Rapid Radios discussion

[thstaff]

Apologies in advance if this is the incorrect forum or inappropriate topic. I also apologize if this topic has been discussed somewhere already, as I couldn't find it in a forums search.

Even as a ham operator, I like to use Zello and other "radio" communications on occasion. I recently came across this company - Rapid Radios. These are cell based, push to talk radios. According to the website and email customer service, they are encrypted (sure...) and work when most other cell carriers are down (like this morning). They say their tech is "different" than traditional cell technology but don't elaborate.

Does anyone here have experience with Rapid Radios? I like the concept, even if these would be unreliable in a complete, grid down scenario.

Know this is an older thread, but Helene and the destruction in NC made me think about this. I’m a savvy techie person, for decades. A friend of mine in Fla told me a day ago he got these for disasters. I said they’re great as long as cell sites don’t go down. But if they do, “you got nothing.” I said as in NC the only thing worth its salt there was Starlink, Sat based communication and more advanced ham radio rigs. He somewhat argued and said his friend in NC now with relief ops was using them and they work fine. I reminded him we are about a month removed from the hurricane and that most carriers have restored service for cell, or have portable sites in operation, which allows Rapid units to work. I tried to explain had his friend been there hours after the hurricane hit they would have been useless. It’s the very reason I have a legitimate satellite phone in my emergency bag for these situations. Essentially zello on your cell phone will do the same. But I never could make him understand this. - Rapid Radio has done some pretty slick marketing that’s pulled a lot of people in that will be gravely disappointed in a true disaster when all goes down.

 

[KQ7D]

Know this is an older thread, but Helene and the destruction in NC made me think about this. I’m a savvy techie person, for decades. A friend of mine in Fla told me a day ago he got these for disasters. I said they’re great as long as cell sites don’t go down. But if they do, “you got nothing.” I said as in NC the only thing worth its salt there was Starlink, Sat based communication and more advanced ham radio rigs. He somewhat argued and said his friend in NC now with relief ops was using them and they work fine. I reminded him we are about a month removed from the hurricane and that most carriers have restored service for cell, or have portable sites in operation, which allows Rapid units to work. I tried to explain had his friend been there hours after the hurricane hit they would have been useless. It’s the very reason I have a legitimate satellite phone in my emergency bag for these situations. Essentially zello on your cell phone will do the same. But I never could make him understand this. - Rapid Radio has done some pretty slick marketing that’s pulled a lot of people in that will be gravely disappointed in a true disaster when all goes down.

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. During and in the days after the hurricane in the Carolinas, cell service was down and out of commission. That included Zello and other cell signal reliant comms.

It’s either VHF/UHF/HF or satellite during those times.

I think the Rapid Radios have a usefulness in regular every day applications, or in emergencies that don’t include the disruption of cell service. They are fun no doubt. I’ve tested them however, and was unimpressed by their reliability. In my area, they dropped out of range in areas where I have reliable connectivity with my cellphone.

I think Rapid Radios are particularly fun for people who want to “play radio.” Lots of guys I know who are reluctant to study for the amateur license like to use them.

I don’t mean to sound negative or bash anyone. I just don’t think Rapid Radios are the emergency comms tool the marketing suggests.

 

[mmckenna]

I don’t mean to sound negative or bash anyone. I just don’t think Rapid Radios are the emergency comms tool the marketing suggests.

It's just really good marketing. They hit all the trigger words on their webpage. Some really fall for that stuff and are convinced it's all true. Because everything on the internet is true.


To be fair, I did get a call from our Chief today looking at some of the Motorola Wave LTE based radios. They want something unmonitorable and really small for low profile type applications.
They have their place.

 

[BinaryMode]

"They want something unmonitorable..."

Hmmmm...

 

[rickb68]

Sorry to resurrect an older thread, but just wanted to share my experience with our company. I work for an electric utility and we are switching over from VHF to Rapid Radios. We did a 2 week trial run on 10 units. We like them so much that we now have 41 and I just ordered another 17 of them today. It's hard to explain or even know exactly how they work, but wow are they super clear!!! They utilize AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile towers. I just hope the FCC doesn't get their claws in on these things! BTW, the cost of the radios, comes with 12 months service. To renew the service, it's $100 per unit.

 

[ladn]

We like them so much that we now have 41 and I just ordered another 17 of them today. It's hard to explain or even know exactly how they work, but wow are they super clear!!!

Please update us after your area suffers a major incident that disrupt (or overloads) the cellular networks or if your crews have to work in an area without cellular coverage.

 

[BinaryMode]

Was thinking the same thing - and I'm wondering if the poster is legit.

 

[wd8ott]

Ok guys, I am trying one of these rapid radios as I write. My son has property about 15 miles north of Newberry Michigan, in the Upper Peninsula. The cell service is pretty much non existent back in the woods where he is located. He bought two radios and said he was heading up to his property, would I test these with him. So here is the skinny. Michigan has a snow storm going right now and communication is critical for travel. My son, and wife, are in a 4x4 jeep that has a slight lift and big tires. So far along the highways the Rapid Radios have had 2 bars better signal than his ATT cell phones. When he was on Borgstrom rd heading north from US-2 near Eppoufette he had no cell service but the Rapid Radios worked very well. Usually just north of Newberry, on the way to Tahquamenon Falls, most all cell service is lost. The real test is about to happen. He is at the Loggers Museum on M-123 and we have great communication. This is where our ATT usually gives out. He is now at the 4 mile corners and the copy is spotty. Now about 10 miles north of Newberry and the copy is again back to very clear and 100%. We never have ATT service here. The dead zone was about 2 miles. People with Verizon are very spotty here. He is now at the corner of M-123 and Fordney Tower rd with the copy being 100%!! Amazing so far. They are now at the corner of Fordney Tower rd and Elmwood. This is over a mile off from M-123 and back in the boonies. As I said before, the ATT cell service even out at M-123 is non-existent. Here at the corner of Fordney Tower and Elmwood, with Rapid Radio we have 100% great copy!! Three quarters of a mile to get to his camp. The "road" has had others down it so they have made it through the 20+ inches of snow. They are now at an area where they must bust through the 20+ inches on their own. I probably won't hear any more until they get the snowshoes on and make it into camp. I am very encouraged these Rapid Radios will work from that final 3/4 mile. All in all, I think the things actually worked. I believe the main advantage is the ability to switch carriers and find the best cell tower/ signal. They can only talk to other Rapid Radios and then only in your group. You can have multiple groups though. They can text each other I think, but we haven't tried that. My background includes 45 years as a ham radio operator. My son is not a ham. I have absolutely no affiliation with Rapid Radio other than I know where the town is they are located.

 

[mmckenna]

You are probably correct, they are finding a signal since they have access to more than one carrier.

Plus, they have something that ~sort~ of resembles an actual antenna, rather than trying to build the antenna into the handset like most cell phones use.

And, voice over IP isn't really resource intensive, usually less than 64kbs is all you need for really good audio.

 

[chrismol1]

I remember back in the day pulling up the retractable antenna on cell phones, one of these type things with a good antenna, like they had even before that, like a motorola 1/2 wave whip, I wonder how that would work if they engineered one like an all band whip antenna for 800 and then up, or maybe an 800 whip and separate antenna for the higher ghz stuff. i think i've seen poc stuff like that out of china

 

[kg4icg]

I'll just stick with what I have, from 4 watts to 100 watts in which got me Australia a few months back from Woodbridge. If wondering, radios are listed below. No Rapid Radios for me.

 

[JASII]

As Direct to Cell becomes more common, some of this will evolve a bit more.

For a number of applications a device that accesses a network via cellular or wifi and also has direct simplex will make a lot of sense. Those devices exist today and will continue to mature.

SpaceX Gets FCC Approval to Start Using Starlink for T-Mobile Cell Service

Using satellites as a backup for cell service, and providing coverage in areas where traditional service doesn't cover, just took a big step forward.

www.cnet.com

 

[dorcse]

Maybe I missed it in the comments, but does anybody know the model name/number of the radio Rapid Radios is using?

 

[steve9570]

I have 2 and without taking them apart there are no markings or numbers on mine.

They do work well for me no issues. And I have and had TONS of radios over the last 60 plus years. As an aside i just got the Unication G5 last week and it is in my top 5 of radios I have owned.
Steve

 

[dorcse]

Thanks Steve. I did a little digging and I think the Rapid Radio may be a variation of the Hytera PNC370. That G5 of yours is one slick (and pricey!) machine!

I wish I could find some cheap, screenless network radios that will work with Zellow with typical US Frequencies (B2 B4 B5, etc). I usually deploy a field repeater and hand out GMRS or Business Band radios to course volunteers at our charity 5K races. The last race we did had rain and wind all day, so the repeater and antenna deployment was a pain. I'd love to have network radios as a backup, but since we usually have 10+ volunteers on the course, it could get pricey to aquire those radios. The SIMs and service are not an issue (I have lots of SIMS and Simbase, which is dirt cheap) but these screenless radios are pricey. Radios with a screen are not a good option because volunteers get completey lost if they lose the Zello screen. They have no clue how to get back to the app. Would love to find a screenless in the sub $100 price point.

Anyway, have fun with your new gadget!

 

[steve9570]

Thanks Pricey but worth it.. (for my needs) I now can take it to work and it works inside just as well as in the car on my visor.

 

[jtalexander4]

I'm new to the thread. My dad just bought each person in our family one of these for Christmas. (Dad, please don't buy this stuff again without calling me first...). I work in the IoT embedded hardware industry, so I HAD to do some digging into this company. TLDR; I totally agree with the skepticism on this post, but these have their place for some applications.

When I saw that they didn't post the FCCID on the device itself (this device), which I am almost 100% sure is required by FCC regulations, I got suspicious. That led me to this thread, one on Facebook, and one on Reddit. I'll post my hardware trail below. Granted, some of these are assumptions, but they are good assumptions in my opinion. To be clear, I'm really only curious about the embedded radio module inside of this thing. The radio module is the entire basis around the FCC certification and is the primary component in this device. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with a radio module manufactured in China. There are plenty of applications that don't justify the political and security concerns. But if you're going to use a Chinese module, the backbone of this device, don't give me all this "made-in-America" marketing. As you all have pointed out already in this thread, their marketing is deceptive and preys on unknowing consumers - especially those experiencing a crisis.

Hardware Trail:

• The Rapid Radio Push-to-Talk (PTT) Nationwide Radio is a white-labeled version of Quanzhou Global-PTT Co., Ltd.'s radio (product link). This is my first assumption, and I think it's a good one because 1) look at the photos and 2) the Quanzhou Global-PTT Co., Ltd. device has a legitimate paper trail with the FCC. That means we are getting closer to the source.
• Inside of this device is a module manufactured by the same company, called the GP1 or GP2, depending on the geography. Based on the supported bands on the Rapid Radio device, I think the GP2 module variant is used inside.
• The FCCID of the GP2 module is 2BGSE-GP2. The information can be found here: link. Again, unless an end-user device like this is so physically small that it is impractical to print a label on it, you are required to print the FCCID of the device. The typical place you would find this is underneath the removeable battery plate. There is a label there on the Rapid Radio Device, but it only lists the model number and the Serial Number. I'm pretty sure, but I'm not willing to say 100% sure, that this is not allowed. The problem is that they have the FCC logo printed on the label. But if you print the FCC logo, you must have the FCCID present and visible.
• The FCC allows a company to perform a "Change in ID", where a company can white-label a module or device and apply a new FCC on the identical product. This helps companies obfuscate the origin of a device or a component. In friendlier terms, it prevents a company's customer from searching the FCCID on a device and finding that it's not manufactured by the company they bought it from. This is very common, and not considered nefarious. Quanzhou Global-PTT Co., Ltd. received a "Change in ID Authorization" from a company called Shanghai Notion Information Technology CO. LTD. Here is the link to that document: link.
• The module from Shanghai Notion Information Technology CO. LTD is called the M12. The FCCID is 2AR45-M12. The information is located here: link.
• This module uses an ASR1606 chipset (images). ASR is a Chinese company designing and building telecommunications chips. Some industry knowledge here: historically, ASR was practically non-existent in the US. Module manufacturers would literally make one product version with ASR for Rest-of-World and an identical one for the US market with a Qualcomm chipset. I actually thought that there was some sort of ban on ASR for the US market. So when I saw that the Rapid Radio device had one inside, I thought to myself, "ohh buddy, these guys are in some deep crap.." But it turns out I was wrong. The ASR1606N is actually approved on AT&T and T-Mobile's network, clearing the way for module manufacturers to embed the chipset. Hey, this crazy rabbit hole actually helped me learn something new! ASR is typically much, much cheaper than Qualcomm.

My thoughts:
The hardware trail is both legit and absurd. The one question I have is, "why don't they add the FCCID to the label like they are supposed to?" The only answer I can come up with is that they are trying to hide the true manufacturer of the device and radio module. It has "CHINA" written all over the hardware trail. Again, like I said before, that's not inherently a bad thing. It depends on the application.

I actually think the device is pretty cool. My dad goes fishing up at our mountain cabin and gets terrible signal on his cell phone, but he tested these out while he was up there and they work great. I could see this being a great senior citizen product for keeping in touch easily with a caretaker. Finally, setting each employee up in a company fleet with one of these would be beneficial in certain scenarios. The use cases are there and there's a fine market for these. I pass no judgement on anyone using these. Honestly, I'll use it when my dad goes up fishing alone and I want to have a way to contact him.

But man, don't feed me **** and tell me it's chocolate. Don't bait customers with terms like "WW3", "Emergency Use", and "Cybersecurity Threats" as a reason to buy these radios. Don't make me feel like I'm being patriotic by buying you're radio. The U.S.' #1 cybersecurity threat, country-wise, is China. These are Chinese-effing radios.

I won't add any more on the topic that these are not actually for emergency use and that they are totally dependent on the cellular networks being up and running. You guys covered that pretty well.

 

[k5ziv]

There are other PTT radios out there I wonder if they work the same as Rapid Radios?
There are other PTT radios that are cheaper than RR.
k5ziv
wpru444

 

[mmckenna]

But man, don't feed me **** and tell me it's chocolate. Don't bait customers with terms like "WW3", "Emergency Use", and "Cybersecurity Threats" as a reason to buy these radios. Don't make me feel like I'm being patriotic by buying you're radio. The U.S.' #1 cybersecurity threat, country-wise, is China. These are Chinese-effing radios.

They know their intended customer base well. If you keep your eyes open, there's a lot of similar marketing out there for questionable products. Almost makes me wish I'd studied a bit of marketing in college. I'm getting to the point that I find this sort of B.S. fascinating.

I won't add any more on the topic that these are not actually for emergency use and that they are totally dependent on the cellular networks being up and running. You guys covered that pretty well.

Yeah, again, they know their customer base and know how to play them.

Thanks for doing all the foot work on that. None of it really surprising, but good to see a confirmation of what we suspected.