Reel antenna indoors?

[SpaceForceCmdr]

I just got an Eton Exec Elite, and it's been fun so far, but of course I've been looking for improvements in reception. I got a Sangean 23-ish ft reel antenna, but TBH, I think it's making things worse in some cases. The catch is, I've been using it indoors, which I guess is a bad idea? The other thing is, when I look at the signal indicator on my radio, it definitely gets more bars with the anntenna connected, however, the sound quality doesn't seem better. There seems to be more hum and background noise.

Also, this isn't antenna related, but I was also wondering what bandwidth setting I should be using. I think the range goes from 2k-6K. To my ears, it basically sounds like a tone control. The higher the BW, the higher the treble. I've had it set to 4K, and that's seems like a nice balance.

 

[GB46]

I just got an Eton Exec Elite, and it's been fun so far, but of course I've been looking for improvements in reception. I got a Sangean 23-ish ft reel antenna, but TBH, I think it's making things worse in some cases. The catch is, I've been using it indoors, which I guess is a bad idea? The other thing is, when I look at the signal indicator on my radio, it definitely gets more bars with the anntenna connected, however, the sound quality doesn't seem better. There seems to be more hum and background noise.

This is the identical problem that I have. The reel antenna came with my Sangean 909X. I have no means of setting up an outdoor antenna here, so like you, I'm using my radio indoors. The apparent increase in signal strength is mostly an increase in the level of noise from various indoor sources. There's nothing wrong with that antenna, nor is the radio itself to blame. At the moment I'm using the reel antenna on a different radio, the Icom R75, but only because that radio requires an external antenna. The Sangean portable works just as well on its built-in whip antenna.

Also, this isn't antenna related, but I was also wondering what bandwidth setting I should be using. I think the range goes from 2k-6K. To my ears, it basically sounds like a tone control. The higher the BW, the higher the treble. I've had it set to 4K, and that's seems like a nice balance.

This is quite common. The narrower the bandwidth, the less treble response you'll get, which can sometimes make the audio too muddy and less intelligible, especially if you're listening to a broadcaster in AM mode, and the signal is weak. I've noticed that on both of my radios.

 

[KB2GOM]

I have had decent success with an indoor wire antenna:

Jock designs a Horizontal Room Loop to cope with reception issues

Many thanks to SWLing Post contributor, Jock Elliott, who shares the following guest post: Got reception issues? An idea worth considering: the “Horizontal Room Loop.” by Jock Elliott (KB2GOM) When…

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If you have window frames, you might consider running that reel-up antenna along the tops of the window frames (you can use map tacks or tape to hold it in place). If you have one of those large, sliding glass patio doors (such as might provide access to a deck or balcony), running a rectangle of wire around the inside of the glass might prove useful. You might use dollar-store suction cups to hold the wire in place.

If you have just a single window, you might consider dangling the reel-up antenna down the face of the building.

Never, ever, deploy your antenna in a place where it could fall on a power line or a power line could fall on it. If lightning threatens, disconnect your outdoor antenna, and if it is one of those reel-up models, bring it in.

 

[GB46]

If you have window frames, you might consider running that reel-up antenna along the tops of the window frames (you can use map tacks or tape to hold it in place). If you have one of those large, sliding glass patio doors (such as might provide access to a deck or balcony), running a rectangle of wire around the inside of the glass might prove useful. You might use dollar-store suction cups to hold the wire in place.

I have a sliding glass balcony door, but it gets opened and closed very frequently, so there's really no way to keep the wire from breaking. Currently the end of the reel antenna is clipped to the end of the drapery rod over the balcony door, with the wire coming down at an approximately 45-degree angle, and the rest of it stretched out on the floor up to the receiver. It works fairly well, but loops wouldn't be much of a solution here, as there are noise sources in every direction, including not only inside the building, but also the power lines running along the front and one side of this building. Luckily I'm on the top floor of a wood-frame apartment building, otherwise I'd be receiving hardly anything.

I've been running the 909X as a tabletop radio on AC power, since it is significantly under-powered on batteries, making the volume quite low. Now that the weather is warm enough, I could simply bring it out to the balcony and listen there, but it's hard to hear anything outside over the sound of passing traffic. Lately I've been using the R75 more than the 909X, anyway.

 

[ka3jjz]

All of you would basically benefit from using a loop of one kind or another. Folks with SDRs have, I have heard, had very good results with the YouLoop (which doesn't have an amplifier - it's what we call 'passive'). We have several links in our loops wiki for building one on your own. If you have a very good junkbox, chances are you have the parts already available, with a bit of surgery. Even in GB46's case, a noise reduction of just 6db would make a significant improvement over a strung out wire.

I too can't put anything outdoors - damned HOA - so like most of you, I would strongly consider a loop. An amplified loop doesn't need to be big, and while you might lose the ability to turn it, the loop's lower noise floor would be a considerable benefit.

We have loops links for HF as well as going lower linked here...

Loops - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

MW DXing and Broadcasting - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

Mike

 

[ka3jjz]

And here, too- a different section within the same article

MW DXing and Broadcasting - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

Mike

 

[GB46]

All of you would basically benefit from using a loop of one kind or another. Folks with SDRs have, I have heard, had very good results with the YouLoop (which doesn't have an amplifier - it's what we call 'passive'). We have several links in our loops wiki for building one on your own. If you have a very good junkbox, chances are you have the parts already available, with a bit of surgery. Even in GB46's case, a noise reduction of just 6db would make a significant improvement over a strung out wire.

I too can't put anything outdoors - damned HOA - so like most of you, I would strongly consider a loop. An amplified loop doesn't need to be big, and while you might lose the ability to turn it, the loop's lower noise floor would be a considerable benefit.

I've given loops a thought from time to time, although most of my monitoring these days is of digital modes, which I find easy to decode even under noisy conditions.

In fact, the noise from the laptop to which I connect the receiver for digital decoding exceeds the noise from those other sources. The computer RFI practically disappears if I run the computer on its battery, but decoding those signals puts a heavy drain on the battery, so I can't do that for very long without having to plug the adapter back in for a recharge.

As for junk boxes, my junk is hardly enough to keep in a box; it consists merely of some random scraps of wire and a few things like alligator clips and headphone adapters. There's not a single diode, capacitor, choke or resistor in the whole collection. When I was a ham during my teens I kept a very good junkbox, including spare tubes, capacitors, transistors and what-not.

 

[Boombox]

RE: Bandwidth & Tone: it's true, with a narrower bandwidth, the muddier the tone. The trade-off is that you get reduced interference or splatter from strong, adjacent stations.

A trick to try is when you have your radio set to a narrow bandwidth, tune it 1-2 khz away from the splatter-producing station. it will reduce the splatter even more, but you'll also get slightly better fidelity from your target station, because the radio's filter will be 'seeing' more of the sideband where the treble and other audio resides.

When you have your bandwidth on narrow, and you're tuned to the center of the channel, you're getting more carrier and less audio from the two sidebands that are either side of the amplitude-modulated carrier.

 

[SpaceForceCmdr]

Thanks, guys! When I was playing around last night, it did seem like the reel antenna helped in some cases. In others, things were clearer using just the built-in. Now that the weather is warming up, I'll have to try the reel outside, where I'm betting it'll do better.

 

[GB46]

Thanks, guys! When I was playing around last night, it did seem like the reel antenna helped in some cases. In others, things were clearer using just the built-in. Now that the weather is warming up, I'll have to try the reel outside, where I'm betting it'll do better.

It just occurred to me to ask you whether your radio has an RF gain control. Using a slightly lower setting often lets the signal come through with less noise, and also reduces the effect of fading. The volume will drop a bit, but that can be adjusted with the volume control. I'm using that approach at the moment while listening to Radio Romania International on 9850 kHz at 03:07 UTC, which is 8:07 PM local here in BC. They're coming in quite strong, but with lots of rapid fading that makes it hard to make out what they're saying. Reducing the RF gain has made the signal more intelligible.

 

[SpaceForceCmdr]

Thanks! Yeah, my Eton has a switch on the side, and I think it's to cut gain if the signal is too strong. Also, I did try my reel outside today, and it was definitely better with it on. Actually, just taking the radio outside seems to get rid of a lot of the background noise and hum. I think I managed to pick up a station from Korea, and I'm in OH, so pretty cool.

I also have an SDR, and I've just been playing with that for SW stuff. Believe it or not, my portable with telescoping antenna seems to pick up things clearer than my SDR. For the heck of it, I'm going to try running a long copper wire the length of my attic, and see how it works.

 

[WA8ZTZ]

It's all about signal to noise ratio. If you are in a noisy environment, a different, better, longer, higher, etc. antenna will increase signal received but also increase noise as well.
Theoretically, a loop will be less noisy but if you are close enough to the noise source theory doesn't matter.

 

[GB46]

It's all about signal to noise ratio. If you are in a noisy environment, a different, better, longer, higher, etc. antenna will increase signal received but also increase noise as well.
Theoretically, a loop will be less noisy but if you are close enough to the noise source theory doesn't matter.

Exactly what I'm faced with here. I've lived in apartments of various kinds most of my life, always with indoor antennas, and can't recall having RFI problems during the 80s and 90s. The noise sources have steadily increased with the introduction of new digital devices. As for power lines, this apartment is surrounded by them; they're roughly 30 feet from us, and I'm at the top floor of a low-rise building, so if I stand up, they're at eye level. With a loop, I'd have the choice of pointing it at either the power lines or some other noise source from one or more of the tenants. You're right -- I can pretty much ignore the theories.

Ah, the challenges of shortwave listening: Consistent RFI and inconsistent propagation! There's no noise at all on the VHF and UHF frequencies I monitor with my scanner, and the little rubber duck antenna has proven to be quite sufficient.

 

[krokus]

Thanks! Yeah, my Eton has a switch on the side, and I think it's to cut gain if the signal is too strong. Also, I did try my reel outside today, and it was definitely better with it on. Actually, just taking the radio outside seems to get rid of a lot of the background noise and hum. I think I managed to pick up a station from Korea, and I'm in OH, so pretty cool.

I also have an SDR, and I've just been playing with that for SW stuff. Believe it or not, my portable with telescoping antenna seems to pick up things clearer than my SDR. For the heck of it, I'm going to try running a long copper wire the length of my attic, and see how it works.

Have you considered a Loop On Ground option?

 

[SpaceForceCmdr]

I'm open to trying anything as long as it's not too complicated. As for the reel, as an experiment, I put it up in my attic and stretched to out to full length. I think clipped it to my whip antenna which is up there, and feeds down to my room. It definitely seemed to help! I'm going to try the long wire method up there, but with a copper wire the full length of the attic. We'll see