San Francisco Public Safety going Digital June 2021

[nokoa3116]

Many agencies are still 100% in the clear, they simply don't broadcast PII over the air in order to comply with the DOJ mandate. Other agencies have an encrypted records channel, separate from the main dispatch channel. Unfortunately some agencies are using the mandate as an excuse to go 100% encrypted. SFPD's decision to broadcast the initial dispatch and disposition in the clear is one step shy of that. So I would hardly call this "the biggest compromise any department in California was willing to provide."

The bottom line is that if agencies want to encrypt everything, they can. All of the booking logs, incident logs etc. are public records, but there is no constitutional or legal right to listen to police communications.

Oh I didn't know anybody actually took this approach. Which departments?

All of Santa Clara County Law complained that they can't do that, because it reduces officers' situational awareness. They gave examples how they dispatch to a call, and that knowing information about a supposed suspect is important, but wouldn't been able to be said on the clear. Compromising officer safety. I thought this was silly reasoning especially for Santa Clara PD to say as they had for years utilized a separate records channel. Other smaller departments also added that they wouldn't have the funding to man another channel. I have seen some department announce that they will be taking an approach similar to San Francisco's but haven't seen anyone implement anything better.

 

[mcjones2013]

Oh I didn't know anybody actually took this approach. Which departments?

In the Sacramento region it's been this way for years, even before the DOJ requirement. The following agencies have either a dedicated records check" channel, or have the option to toggle on encryption when running PII.

Officers will tell the main dispatcher they're switching to the records channel. They'll switch to the records channel (usually on their portable radio, mobile radio is on the main channel), run their PII, get their returns, and switch back to the main channel. The records channel is manned by either a dedicated dispatcher or a dispatcher who is also on phones.

Dedicated encrypted records channel:
Elk Grove PD (already had a records channel pre-DOJ requirement, now it's encrypted)
Roseville PD
Sacramento County SO (already had a records channel pre-DOJ requirement, now it's encrypted)

Toggle-switch for secure mode when running PII:
Sutter County SO

And, while they're not yet encrypted, these agencies already had their records checks on a separate channel pre-DOJ requirement:
Citrus Heights PD
Sacramento PD
Stockton PD

 

[officer_415]

Oh I didn't know anybody actually took this approach. Which departments?

Sonoma Sheriff and Santa Rosa PD have records channels (SRPD's is encrypted now). Most agencies in the San Diego region also use dedicated inquiry channels, some of which are encrypted. As a field user, I would prefer that because it allows you to just listen to what's going on, and not hear the boring chatter of records checks. But to your point, agencies are resistant to change, and most of them don't want to add a separate records channel if they don't already have one.

As for the Bay Area, only Antioch, Brentwood, Livermore, and the Santa Clara County agencies are encrypted. Everyone else is still in the clear.

 

[WB6WQF]

Everything seems to be encrypted today; TGs 804, 808, 810, 812, 816.

 

[footage]

T

Everything seems to be encrypted today; TGs 804, 808, 810, 812, 816.

Those TGs have always been encrypted other than a few test transmissions this summer. As for the TGs that are planned to carry no encryption, I have heard no activity over the past few days.

 

[WB6WQF]

T

Those TGs have always been encrypted other than a few test transmissions this summer. As for the TGs that are planned to carry no encryption, I have heard no activity over the past few days.

Yes, that's what I meant. The only TGs with any activity are the encrypted TGs.

 

[zerg901]

Wayback Machine

this seems to be huge news about encryption out of Palo Alto and CHP

 

[rooivalk]

Here's the gist. All handhelds are encrypted, regardless of channel. In car radios (the "Low band" odd numbered channels) are not. BUT, if the Dispatcher activates encryption on the odd numbered channels (AES for what it's worth), then the whole odd numbered "channel" automatically encrypts for a set period of time. Even numbered channels are encrypted 100% of the time on the in car radios.

In theory, the odd channels were for dispatching only, going back to the real Low Band days, thus no encryption for the new system, as no personal info is being broadcast. But, there's no set policy to turn off encryption, so Dispatchers can hit the encryption PTT at will at the console level for the odd numbered channels.

 

[officer_415]

I think we need to make a distinction here between odd/even “channels” (A1, A2, etc.) and odd/even talkgroup IDs (803, 804, 805, 806, etc.) because right now, each “channel” has two talkgroup IDs: an odd unencrypted one, and an even encrypted one.

SFPD was already weird having two channels per district, but now it’s doubly confusing because there are four. Currently the even talkgroup IDs (which includes both odd and even “channels”) are the only ones being regularly used, which means everything is encrypted.

 

[WB6WQF]

Anyone know the two tones for the new SFFD automated dispatch?

 

[officer_415]

Anyone know the two tones for the new SFFD automated dispatch?

DTMF tones A and B.

 

[kg6nlw]

DTMF tones A and B.

A A B to be precise.

Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[kg6nlw]

Found a new TG on the SF System. Looks like it would be within the SFPD block of TG's possibly?

P25, BEE00.2BB, 831, 50, Normal, 6, 2021/11/15 12:28, ""

Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[officer_415]

Found a new TG on the SF System. Looks like it would be within the SFPD block of TG's possibly?

P25, BEE00.2BB, 831, 50, Normal, 6, 2021/11/15 12:28, ""

Should be the parole talkgroup.

 

[kg6nlw]

Should be the parole talkgroup.

That would make sense. I did not hear any traffic so I can't confirm it.

Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[KD6JEK]

I've never heard Parole ever on the current analog system.

 

[officer_415]

SFMTA is starting to transition this week. On another note, I think I've figured out what the 14xx encrypted talkgroups are. I had a chance to run Unitrunker for a while today, and noticed that the traffic on these talkgroups usually starts with a page, followed by a brief voice exchange, then the radio switches back to FD A1-A3. So I think these are the new medic-to-hospital talkgroups. I haven't seen any activity on talkgroups 59/61.

We should be able to figure out which talkgroup is for which hospital by listening for medic units transporting on the dispatch talkgroups, and then looking for corresponding activity on the 14xx talkgroups.

 

[mcjones2013]

SFMTA is starting to transition this week.

Is SFMTA moving to the San Francisco system from their own system?

 

[officer_415]

Is SFMTA moving to the San Francisco system from their own system?

No, the old Department of Parking and Traffic (DPT) functions have always been on the public safety system. The Muni (transit) functions are on SFMTA's own system.

 

[kg6nlw]

Is SFMTA moving to the San Francisco system from their own system?

No, the old Department of Parking and Traffic (DPT) functions have always been on the public safety system. The Muni (transit) functions are on SFMTA's own system.

The problem with this is SFMTA is split across both systems. SFMTA is Parking Enforcement and Scofflaws as well as MUNI itself.

Regards,

-Frank C.