SC21 Madison County Simulcast expansion

[Starcom21]

More and more public safety agencies have moved to SC21 in the past 6 months, with more to follow in the coming years. Eventually, all Madison County Public Safety "should" be using SC21, but I'm sure there will be some hold-outs, like Alton Police and Fire.

Current sites for simulcast are: Godfrey, Edwardsville, Maryville, Granite City, Alton. These serve population centers, but miss out on some more rural areas.
The Madison County simulcast has 2 new FCC Modifications/Applications this week. Overall with frequencies, it DOES NOT ADD ANY ADDITIONAL frequencies. It does delete 852.775 and replaces it with 853.275 at all locations.

Madison County FCC Application 0011494451 adds simulcast sites at (852.1375, 852.3, 852.5375, 853.0875, 853.275, 853.6625)
- West Alton MO (St Charles County, just across the river from Alton, East Alton, Wood River, Hartford, Roxana, South Roxana. This will help for Fire/Police in those cities to make the move to SC21 in the future. The VHF Repeater system for Police was recently upgraded and Fire is slowly moving to DMR VHF, it appears. This may also aid coverage for pursuits, etc in the St Louis/St Charles County areas nearby.
- Bethalto (currently all on VHF; Police and Fire were previously on SC21, but went back to VHF) This will also assist with covering northern Madison County and southeast/southern Macoupin County. (Meadowbrook, Cottage Hills, Fosterburg, Bethalto, etc.)
- Edwardsville (mailing), although more located at Holiday Shores. This will also assist with the northern part of the county into southern Macoupin. (Holiday Shores, Dorsey, Bunker Hill and surrounding areas, even towards the Worden, Hamel areas)
- Highland (Police currently dispatched by Sheriff on their SC21 TG, that is patched through to their silly P25 VHF encrypted local repeater). At this point, Highland and Highland Pierron Fire are using a newer VHF Repeater system, that does multicast onto a TG. MCAD (Hamel) EMS and some other agencies in the area may also use SC21. This site covers a long standing void in the EAST side of Madison County. Previously only being served by Mt Olive and Bond/Clinton County towers.
- Collinsville - Collinsville Police and Fire have been using SC21 for a while now, but their closest tower was the Maryville simulcast, or would often bounce off of T359, St Clair County Simulcast. This will also assist with State Park Fire, just west of Collinsville off of I-55. Pontoon Beach's southern areas will also get better coverage, including Long Lake Fire, who recently switched to SC21 along with Mitchell Fire



Illinois State FCC Application 0011494448 adds simulcast sites at same locations (851.35, 851.875)

Other current licenses have been modified to delete 852.775 and replace it with 853.275 at all locations.

For years, site 301 Madison County was just 6 frequencies, with 5 voice channels. There were CONSTANT issues with system overload and calls being rejected. I fought for a couple years to get more voice channels, working with Madison County EMA. 2 voice channels were added in the recent past.
But in my opinion this is going to need 2 MORE voice channels, unless a considerable number of radios/agencies move to P25 Phase II (TDMA), where they can operate 2 talkgroups at a time on one frequency.

So, basically for the average scanner user, this doesn't end up meaning much. Probably nothing noticeable will change (unless they move some TGs to Phase II)

 

[nick1427d]

Funny because the junction of 55 and 270 isn't in Collinsville, I'm sure they meant 55 & 255. The tower is there. Wasn't it a site in the early days of STARCOM?

 

[Starcom21]

Funny because the junction of 55 and 270 isn't in Collinsville, I'm sure they meant 55 & 255. The tower is there. Wasn't it a site in the early days of STARCOM?

Yeah, thats a mistake for sure. The early days of Starcom, there were duplicate ISP sites on some (?) of the St Clair County sites (3-01 E STL, 3-001 Mascoutah, 3-05 Belleville, 3-053 Caseyville-805 E Ofallon Dr) then the ones in Madison Co at SIUE 3-25 and Godfrey 3-55 .

None at the 55/255 before that I know of. I had assumed that it meant at the Troop 8 HQ in Collinsville, but it does say "NW Corner"

 

[Starcom21]

OK, well the "NW" is also a mistake. The coordinates, also a bit off, appear to be about 100 feet away from the tower at ISP.

By the way, one of the application/modifications was "returned" by the FCC today, but won't be able to see the return letter until after day change.

 

[scanman1958]

Fantastic report with great details. Is there a guesstimate when the new sites would go online?

 

[wx9svr]

Granted 04/07/2025

For Application #0011494448

ULS License - PubSafty/SpecEmer/PubSaftyNtlPlan,806-817/851-862MHz,Trunked License - WSHU474 - ILLINOIS, STATE OF

For Application #0011494451

ULS License - PubSafty/SpecEmer/PubSaftyNtlPlan,806-817/851-862MHz,Trunked License - WSHU483 - MADISON, COUNTY OF

 

[llzel]

On another note, the FCC must use consecutive license sequence and doesn't matter what kind. My newly acquired GMRS license is WSHU854

 

[scanman1958]

Are the 5 red dots (new Madison Co sites) on the map you provided, the new tower sites? If so, the southern most tower might give me a fighting chance to hear Madison Co from SW city. I can hear the system pretty good, now, with a yagi. But I am wondering if the Madison Co system has directional antennas like St. Clair Co as to keep the signals 'inside' the county.

Hate that it is more miss than hit for St. Clair County. On a good day I might heR about 8-10% of transmissions from there.

 

[nick1427d]

Are the 5 red dots (new Madison Co sites) on the map you provided, the new tower sites? If so, the southern most tower might give me a fighting chance to hear Madison Co from SW city. I can hear the system pretty good, now, with a yagi. But I am wondering if the Madison Co system has directional antennas like St. Clair Co as to keep the signals 'inside' the county.

Hate that it is more miss than hit for St. Clair County. On a good day I might heR about 8-10% of transmissions from there.

They don’t use directional antennas. What you are likely experiencing is just the nature of RF. Elevation and obstructions are probably your problem. Have you checked line of site? Depending on your height in relation to the specific site you want, you may be better tilting the yagi up or down actually. Have you tried flipping it to make the polarity horizontal? Don’t neglect filtering on your yagi. It’s amazing what a good filter can do by lowering your noise floor. Being in a city, you likely have a decent amount of noise.

If you’re in SW city, try pointing it directly at the site on the water tower in East Carondelet. Your next likely tower to capture would be at 15th and Parsons in ESTL. Look at the maps there are only 2 st Clair co towers (that I just mentioned) on the western edge of the county, both are not very high.

 

[Starcom21]

They don’t use directional antennas. What you are likely experiencing is just the nature of RF. Elevation and obstructions are probably your problem. Have you checked line of site? Depending on your height in relation to the specific site you want, you may be better tilting the yagi up or down actually. Have you tried flipping it to make the polarity horizontal? Don’t neglect filtering on your yagi. It’s amazing what a good filter can do by lowering your noise floor. Being in a city, you likely have a decent amount of noise.

If you’re in SW city, try pointing it directly at the site on the water tower in East Carondelet. Your next likely tower to capture would be at 15th and Parsons in ESTL. Look at the maps there are only 2 st Clair co towers (that I just mentioned) on the western edge of the county, both are not very high.

I've been told in the past that they TOTALLY use direction antennas. Not just for St Clair County.
That's how a lot of the dead spots (dead looking areas, sometimes a whole county) get coverage. .
I obviously could have been told wrong. I'm also not smart enough to understand the antennas on the FCC License.

 

[nick1427d]

The directional antennas they might be referencing on the towers are microwave for the data links.

St Clair is a “site” 359. Each tower is then 359(A), (B) etc. There should be 10 towers A-J

The license will usually list a control point and then under the license under locations you can usually find the transmitter locations

 

[scanman1958]

The antennas in St Clair Co are directional in a way to keep the signals (as best as possible) within the county limits. There are many reports over the years of reception on scanners being nealy absent just a couple miles outside the county.

I originally asked if the towers in Madison Co were the same. I was hoping that one of the new towers (which looks pretty far south in the county) might make it easier for me to receive signals in SW St Louis City.

 

[nick1427d]

The antennas in St Clair Co are directional in a way to keep the signals (as best as possible) within the county limits. There are many reports over the years of reception on scanners being nealy absent just a couple miles outside the county.

I originally asked if the towers in Madison Co were the same. I was hoping that one of the new towers (which looks pretty far south in the county) might make it easier for me to receive signals in SW St Louis City.

So they purposely keep signal strength away from St Louis or the other areas too? Madison, Clinton, Monroe?

 

[scanman1958]

For years that is what I have been told. Not so much to keep the signals away from other areas, but to keep the signals within St Clair County. I guess to make sure there is adequate signal in the county. I know of one person that lives in Columbia, IL and has terrible trouble receiving St Clair Co.

What's interesting. I can receive JeffCo SLATER (off and on, dispatch only) from my home. In JeffCo the north part of the county's antennas are pointed south and vise versa for the southern towers. I have zero signal from the towers that are closer to me (north) but receive (not well) the towers from the south. That is quite some distance. Yet St Clair Co is probably 5 or so miles, as the crow flies, from here and I only receive their signals ... by accident.

Living in a elevation hole at my residence does not help. I've been trying for years to find a cure.

 

[K9KLC]

For years that is what I have been told. Not so much to keep the signals away from other areas, but to keep the signals within St Clair County. I guess to make sure there is adequate signal in the county. I know of one person that lives in Columbia, IL and has terrible trouble receiving St Clair Co.

What's interesting. I can receive JeffCo SLATER (off and on, dispatch only) from my home. In JeffCo the north part of the county's antennas are pointed south and vise versa for the southern towers. I have zero signal from the towers that are closer to me (north) but receive (not well) the towers from the south. That is quite some distance. Yet St Clair Co is probably 5 or so miles, as the crow flies, from here and I only receive their signals ... by accident.

Living in a elevation hole at my residence does not help. I've been trying for years to find a cure.

What device are you using for scanning? Just curious.

 

[scanman1958]

125at, 325p2, 396xt, 996, 996p2, sds100 and many older Uniden table top units.

At this very moment I have a 996p2 scanning on my back porch, pretty much in the open. It has the old reliable RS or Remtronix 800MHz attached. It won't even stop, or even try to lock on to site 359. Skips right on by that system.

 

[K9KLC]

Thanks was just curious. Obviously I don't know your location but there are a few places I've gotten 359 in south city STL. There are places obviously it was hit and miss but I had a job over that was way for a few days and listened off and on while working.

I live up by Higjland and also have no problems getting it here. I don't know how accurate the RR coverage map but I'm out of what they're showing and have no problems hearing it here. I use Unication pagers. I'll have to see if I can get it on my 996 or 536 to compare.

 

[scanman1958]

It helps quite a bit to have a Unication. I can pick up St Clair Co -359- from areas like Grand and Gravois (general area) in south city and from the area of Sublette Park (Arsenal and Sublette) in south city. That is the highest elevation in St. Louis. Over 600ft. My elevation at my home is around 428ft. Even at the highest point in the city it's not 100% for site359.

Took a trip to Springfield some years ago and was able to receive about a nine county area on Starcom. Its very easy inside the state because it is so flat. Even 700/800 signals travel forever over flat ground. Ha.

 

[K9KLC]

It helps quite a bit to have a Unication. I can pick up St Clair Co -359- from areas like Grand and Gravois (general area) in south city and from the area of Sublette Park (Arsenal and Sublette) in south city. That is the highest elevation in St. Louis. Over 600ft. My elevation at my home is around 428ft. Even at the highest point in the city it's not 100% for site359.

Took a trip to Springfield some years ago and was able to receive about a nine county area on Starcom. Its very easy inside the state because it is so flat. Even 700/800 signals travel forever over flat ground. Ha.

For what it's worth, I just tried at home to get St. Clair county (359) at home on my BCD 536 and the 996 XT and both were virtually a no go, every once in a while the 536 would pick up bits and pieces while the Unication seemed to have no problems sitting side by side. This was a test I had never done before and truthfully I was really surprised how bad the 536 was sitting there next to the pager. I have the Remtronix antenna on the 536 but I did try a telescopic at differing lengths extension with even a worse outcome. I guess that's why it worked so well for me when I was working over there.

 

[scanman1958]

That's what my reception is like on 359. Hit or miss is a good day.