Scanner ban?

[hotdjdave]

Don't Make Me Laugh, Please!

I don't get it. It is common place to see people with earbuds for a cell phone. In fact, the number of people with earbuds (or the like) are ever increasing and may soon overtake those who do not have them. How is someone to know to what the earbud is connected?

Unless it is forbidden by state law, US Code, the UCMJ, or city/county ordinance, I dare someone to tell me that I cannot have my scanner, especially if the person has no official capacity to even question me about in the first place.

I have done my security work (moonlighting while a cop and in between), and what was written about the mall security makes me laugh. :lol: What are they going to do, charge you with trespassing? I would like to hear what they would tell the law enforcement officer when he or she arrives to remove you from the property as to why they feel you are trespassing (barring some lame, freak ordinance). :roll:


The only time I have abided by such a request is when I go to movie screenings (which I frequently do) that do not allow any electrical communication devices, but I already know this going in and understand its purpose.

 

[Napalm]

In this post you said you were 16, http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showthread.php?p=195940#post195940

and the Illinois law says: (225 ILCS 447/35?30) (Section scheduled to be repealed on January 1, 2014) Sec. 35?30. Employee requirements. All employees of a licensed agency, other than those exempted, shall apply for a permanent employee registration card. The holder of an agency license issued under this Act, known in this Section as "employer", may employ in the conduct of his or her business employees under the following provisions: (1) No person shall be issued a permanent employee
registration card who:

(A) Is younger than 18 years of age. (B) Is younger than 21 years of age if the
services will include being armed.

So how do you work as a security guard?

Wow, stalker material.

 

[NightFox]

My state has a law against mobile scanning, as such I have never taken it out of the home.

which is one of the reasons why i'm getting my ham license soon

 

[retroactiv]

I'm also from the great scanning state of Indiana, but I carry it where ever I go. Usually more than one, usually I have my Pro-96 and my jag with me. I've neverbeen hastled about what I'm doing maybe I'm lucky or maybe there is just a provision for me to carry a scanner.

I have contacted my legislators about getting the scanning law repealed. After talking to a certian one that can get something done told me that after his years in law enforcement he hadn't heard of such a thing (they can't know every law, but it suprised me he hadn't heard of this one being in LE) he wrote down all of my information and told me that he would personally contact me once he went back into session.

 

[videobruce]

Public airwaves are just that, PUBLIC.

AFAIC, NO one has the right to tell you what you CAN'T listen to.

If these people carry their stupid cellular phones around in public and you have to lisdten and watch them using them, what's wrong with a scannert?

It's just a receiver, just as ia AM/FM radio is. Broadcast or not isn't and shouldn't be a issue.

As far as the eariler comment about a airshow, why WOULDN'T you take a radio with you? The next thing you are telling us is not to take a radio to a auto race.

 

[STiMULi]

In this post you said you were 16, http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showthread.php?p=195940#post195940

and the Illinois law says: (225 ILCS 447/35?30) (Section scheduled to be repealed on January 1, 2014) Sec. 35?30. Employee requirements. All employees of a licensed agency, other than those exempted, shall apply for a permanent employee registration card. The holder of an agency license issued under this Act, known in this Section as "employer", may employ in the conduct of his or her business employees under the following provisions: (1) No person shall be issued a permanent employee
registration card who:

(A) Is younger than 18 years of age. (B) Is younger than 21 years of age if the
services will include being armed.

So how do you work as a security guard?

lifeguard

 

[Rayjk110]

Just someone trying to play "T3h Internet Police" trying to feel special. Happens on most forums.

 

[garys]

If you carry a hand held scanner in public, keep it in a pocket, or under a jacket or coat, and use I-Pod style earbuds. This is what I do when I carry a scanner, and I have never been given a second look, especially in these days of I-Pods, bluetooth headsets, etc.

+1. Even at numerous airports where I have listened during lay overs. Not a second (or even first) look by anyone. Discretion is the key.

Gary

 

[garys]

I would like to hear what they would tell the law enforcement officer when he or she arrives to remove you from the property as to why they feel you are trespassing (barring some lame, freak ordinance). :roll:

"We've asked him to turn off his scanner or leave the property and he has refused to do so".

That's about all they have to say. It's private property and fortunately owners still have the right to set the rules (pretty much) for what people can and can not do on their property.

As to casinos, they pretty much ban scanners across the board. I don't know about FRS radios, cell phones, Nextels, or anything else, but they don't want people listening to their operations while they are on the property. I think they are more worried about cheating than robbery.

This is just an extension of the never ending "Can I use a scanner on an airplane?" thread. Even if the FAA says it's okay, the individual airlines can still ban their use.

Gary

 

[Luis_C]

The funny thing is that in the malls they seem to "ban" radio scanners, but yeah, you can buy one there in your local mall radio shack store.

 

[hotdjdave]

Once again, I would like to see someone tell me I can't have my scanner in a mall (or other public place), and I am certain that LAPD would laught at their excuse of why they think I am trespassing. If I did not break any laws, then tough luck.

Trespassing is a pretty specific law with specific elements. Trespassing signs and rules prohibiting something must be posted all all ingress and egress points and at certain distance points for the law to be enforceable (on public grounds).

This is just absurdity.

I have not heard of such a problem where I live (in California), so I guess it is not much of issue anyway.


And again, earbud in the ear, radio hidden in pocket or coat...who's to know it's not a cell phone. And what about communications radios (business, FRS/GMRS, Nextel, etc.), are they banned as well?

Luis C has a good point, too.


This is kind of like a mall prohibiting free speech. Laws were passed in California to prohibit mall and shopping center owners (private property, mind you) from allowing free speech in common areas of the mall/shopping center. The owner may not prevent a person or a group from gathering and speaking or protesting.

 

[16b]

I wish the off-topic folks would stop polluting this thread. We have so many legal experts here on this board!

Anyway, the only time that I have ever been hassled about my radio was when I was at a small event where some of the staff were using family radios to communicate. One of them saw my Motorola radio (which was on an entirely different frequency band from FRS) which I still had on me because I had just gotten back from a hamfest. The person gave me a little bit of a hard time because they thought that I was causing their cheesy little FRS radios to make noise (it was more than likely just interference from the electronic equipment they were using).

I have never gotten in trouble/banned/evicted/whatever with anyone important for wearing a radio around. I have worn small radios (Uniden BC-246, etc...) and big radios (Motorola, etc...) on my belt, in plain view, in public places, and I have never had a problem. I have received plenty of weird looks, and have had a few people ask me questions like I was someone "official", but no problems so far.

 

[Rayjk110]

Once again, I would like to see someone tell me I can't have my scanner in a mall (or other public place), and I am certain that LAPD would laught at their excuse of why they think I am trespassing. If I did not break any laws, then tough luck.

Actually, I thought that LAPD Cops were quite tough on seeing people with scanners? I remember reading a few threads of people who have had their scanners taken from not-so-nice LAPD officers. There are many stories on them taking away Moto's, but that's a different story.

 

[astrodanco]

discrete is elite

And don't think for a moment that you're being discreet by wearing those Secret Service style earbuds either. It would bet better to hide in plain site. Make it look like you're listening to an MP3 player or a walkman.

 

[STiMULi]

I see a market for Fake IPODs

 

[CLB]

I've never been asked to turn it off/ leave/ban whatever. Generally though, whenever I actually DO carry a scanner I'm wearing CAP fatigues with an EFJ 5100 VHF right next to it. People generally take it that we're active duty Air Force...there's a lot of them around here. If we have to go out into public, we just present ourselves in a professional manner and go about our business. If I was asked to leave or stop listening in an instance while in uniform, I would just simply turn it off.

There's a lot of people around here that listen to the AFB as well as us, even posting my callsign on message boards like this and what traffic was passed. Doesn't bother me too much...if I need to pass something that people don't generally need to hear, I find other means. It's just a fact, radio waves hit antennas without discretion.

SC also has laws on mobile scanning. Basically amounts to not having it while in the commission of a crime. Other than that, it's fair game. When my parents lived in FL, which does prohibit moble scanning, I saw that you COULD scan if you had a alarm systems contractor license which at the time I did have.

 

[kb2vxa]

Hi all,

You think scanner buffs have it bad just try operating a mobile Amateur Radio station sometime. We have come up against the most moronic laws banning scanners, cell phones and the like and having them applied to us by the police who are ignorant enough and judges who are beyond all hope and can't be reasoned with. Just "keep it under your hat" and you have it made, drive a car with an unusual antenna on it and you're sunk, some places are swamps and Municipal Court as you already know is quicksand.

We've even come to lagerheads with NASA security when Cape Canaveral has it's very own ham radio station and repeater but at least that issue was resolved by proper communication with the Space Center higher ups. It's a very complicated issue and way to much to deal with here but the bottom line is when you know what you're up against and act accordingly you're way ahead of the opposition. Most of the time it pays to be discreet just like most of us agree upon so just take it from there.

BTW, railroad and airport personel were mentioned but I've had no problems with them since I'm discreet both in my radio use and my approach to them. I have found just the opposite to be true, most don't mind us listening one bit and several have discussed radio channels and operations with me being most helpful in doing so. If you "play by the rules" you shouldn't have a problem, just remember it's thier game and thier rules. Sure there are those crusty old curmudgeons among them but most are happy that people take an interest in them and thier jobs and it goes WAY beyond just listening to a radio.

Edit Re: NightFox;

Originally Posted by Go-24
My state has a law against mobile scanning, as such I have never taken it out of the home.

"which is one of the reasons why i'm getting my ham license soon"

Once again as if I haven't said it enough, hams are NOT EXEMPT no matter what you have heard to the contrary! What IS exempt is the RADIO, PROVIDED it's not used to receive public service frequencies. All modern 2M 1.25M and 70cM ham rigs are capable of receiving out of band and can receive public service frequencies and ONLY the CAPABILITY is exempt, not the USE as in if and when it is used to receive them. If it is used as a scanner it IS a scanner under the law and subjects you to the same penalties and STILL you cannot have a scanner in the car for the same reason. If the law says no scanners it MEANS no scanners, period.

Now before I get the usual "How can they tell what I'm using it for?" question it's easy. If a cop sees the rig he's got probable cause to check it out so if you have "illegal" frequencies programmed into memory or stupidly leave the VFO sitting on one you're busted. Please no macho remarks, it's most unwise to challenge a cop and worse a judge!

Now Fox, I'm glad you are intent on joining our ranks but please, you and others must understand that a ham license is a federal grant in and of itself, it does NOT grant privelidges beyond the scope of the license. If you want to drive a truck or a bus you can't do it on your driver's license, you need a CDL. You can obtain a permit usually based on a job related need granted by the appropriate law enforcement agency. Please don't ask, that's all I know never having had the need for a mobile or portable scanner.

Re: videobruce;
"Public airwaves are just that, PUBLIC."

The only public airwaves are those intended for broadcast to the general public, AM, FM, TV, etc.

"AFAIC, NO one has the right to tell you what you CAN'T listen to."

Wanna bet? Check out the USC section entitled the Privacy In Communications Act of 1934 as amended and too bad I don't remember the Code number of the following two enacted ca. 1990. Help please somebody. (;->) Private enterprise can ban receivers on thier property for reasons of security or any other thet may choose. The bulk of airwaves are anything but public and far from free, just ask Lindsay about his recent adventure with the military or better still just read about it, no secrets has he about it. There are plenty more examples right here in the archives, all you have to do is read. A dollar is legal tender for all debts public and private but is not redeemable in cash, think about it, you were wrong about that one too. The eye of Horis is upon you but I digress..

 

[hotdjdave]

Actually, I thought that LAPD Cops were quite tough on seeing people with scanners? I remember reading a few threads of people who have had their scanners taken from not-so-nice LAPD officers. There are many stories on them taking away Moto's, but that's a different story.

I've lived in CA all my life, been scanning in CA for 24 years, and I have never had a problem from any officical for having my scanner, nor have I ever heard of it happening to anyone else. That is not to say it has never happened, but it would have to be rare an occassion or involving aggravating circumstances.

 

[Luis_C]

Hi all,


BTW, railroad and airport personel were mentioned but I've had no problems with them since I'm discreet both in my radio use and my approach to them. I have found just the opposite to be true, most don't mind us listening one bit and several have discussed radio channels and operations with me being most helpful in doing so. If you "play by the rules" you shouldn't have a problem, just remember it's thier game and thier rules. Sure there are those crusty old curmudgeons among them but most are happy that people take an interest in them and thier jobs and it goes WAY beyond just listening to a radio.

Me too, long ago I went to the airport because of a school visit, and I was talking to a air traffic controller who was not on duty, I couldn't ask him much stuff because he was guiding us, and our time was really limited but I chatted with him for a few minutes and he was telling me all the details about the frequencies, I mean everything, at least I remembered some numbers later, but he was being so helpful, I really wish I could repeat that experience because I have many questions about ATC here in Mexico, and many terms that I don't understand. But it really impressed me, I was waiting for a response like sorry we can't tell you because of security, but I had to ask and received a positive response.

 

[jparks29]

Now before I get the usual "How can they tell what I'm using it for?" question it's easy. If a cop sees the rig he's got probable cause to check it out so if you have "illegal" frequencies programmed into memory or stupidly leave the VFO sitting on one you're busted. Please no macho remarks, it's most unwise to challenge a cop and worse a judge!

are you kidding me??

that's the most asinine thing I've heard in a while......

so, you're telling me, that joe officer is going to..

a."observe" that I have Motorola Spectra's in my car.
b.demand proof that I don't have public safety frequencies in my Spectra.
c.impound my vehicle, remove the Spectra's.
d.take the Spectra's to their radio shop to determine wether or not I have PS frequencies in them..
(assuming I'm in a state that doesnt allow PS programmed frequencies)


then..

e. buy me a new house with the money I win from suing the crap out of the dep't.

BTW, I AM an amateur radio operator, and, as a matter of fact,I also own a company that sells/installs emergency vehicle equipment, INCLUDING communications....


you need a refresher on the fourth amendment.....

and associated case law...

a "hunch" that joe blow has "illegal" frequencies programmed into their reciever(wether it be amateur,or scanner), is not probable cause...

now,if the officer is approaching the vehicle, and hears what he can identify as "illegal" radio traffic,then there's no question, there is probable cause to detain/sieze...

on a side note, I was on a southwest flight, and asked the attendant to ask the pilot,if it was OK to use a scanner(a vx-5 actually,technically a transciever) for rx on vhf-air bands....

flight attendent looked confused, went up front, she came back, asked for the radio,I handed it to her, she took it back up front, then came back about 5 mins later,said the pilot had said "no problem", and "what do you need that for?"......I tried to explain it, but she cut me off, saying the pilot was only joking...

this was pre "9/11" BTW.




BTW,I'm not an attorney,but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night...