mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
It would work.
I'd probably go with a 1/4 wave ground plane, it'll have similar gain and probably a better radiation pattern, wider bandwidth, and easier to tune.
It would work.
I'd probably go with a 1/4 wave ground plane, it'll have similar gain and probably a better radiation pattern, wider bandwidth, and easier to tune.
prcguy
Member
Not really.
A CB ground plane base station antenna works well and is relatively inexpensive. If you're only using the antenna for your scanner, simply shorten the radial and radiators by a foot or so to get you in the middle of the 30-50 MHz band. Ground the antenna and using lightning protection devices as well as quality coaxial cable.
The low hanging fruit is going to be the California Highway Patrol using just about every police frequency from 39 to 45 MHz. They're everywhere and are very active.
Check out the 33 MHz fire frequencies, too. There are still a bunch of east coast and New England area fire departments rocking this band, although many of them simply plug their UHF repeater or trunked system into the low band base station. If you consistently hear the mobiles at the same signal strength as the base along with that telltale repeater hang time, that's what you snagged.
44.58 MHz is a good beacon with railroad signalling equipment.
Once you get into the hobby, the real fun is looking other places for the rare gems. There are still some business band users around 30-31 MHz and again on 35 MHz.
35.04 and 43.04 MHz are for itinerant business band operation -- meaning not at any fixed location. Statewide or nationwide licenses can be found here, along with people operating on expired licenses and those who never bothered to get a license in the first place.
There are still some power companies and water districts using 37.46 to 37.86 MHz and 47.70 to 48.54 MHz for communication.
You might hear the Red Cross on 47.42 MHz in a disaster somewhere.
29.60 MHz and 52.525 MHz are the Amateur Radio calling frequencies for 10 meters and 6 meters, respectively. They are fun to hear when the band opens and are good indicators about the condition of skip-land.
42.96 and 43.00 MHz are very old business band channels that had an unusually high number of users back in the day. You might find someone still there with or without a current FCC license.
35.04 and 43.04 MHz are for itinerant business band operation -- meaning not at any fixed location. Statewide or nationwide licenses can be found here, along with people operating on expired licenses and those who never bothered to get a license in the first place.
And finally, don't forget 25.02 to 26.80 MHz -- the LOW low band. This is below the CB radio band and contains petroleum suppliers, offshore oil rigs, remote broadcast pickup transmitters, and who know what else.
With a good antenna system and some patience, low band can still be an adventure. Have fun!
The low hanging fruit is going to be the California Highway Patrol using just about every police frequency from 39 to 45 MHz. They're everywhere and are very active.
Check out the 33 MHz fire frequencies, too. There are still a bunch of east coast and New England area fire departments rocking this band, although many of them simply plug their UHF repeater or trunked system into the low band base station. If you consistently hear the mobiles at the same signal strength as the base along with that telltale repeater hang time, that's what you snagged.
44.58 MHz is a good beacon with railroad signalling equipment.
Once you get into the hobby, the real fun is looking other places for the rare gems. There are still some business band users around 30-31 MHz and again on 35 MHz.
35.04 and 43.04 MHz are for itinerant business band operation -- meaning not at any fixed location. Statewide or nationwide licenses can be found here, along with people operating on expired licenses and those who never bothered to get a license in the first place.
There are still some power companies and water districts using 37.46 to 37.86 MHz and 47.70 to 48.54 MHz for communication.
You might hear the Red Cross on 47.42 MHz in a disaster somewhere.
29.60 MHz and 52.525 MHz are the Amateur Radio calling frequencies for 10 meters and 6 meters, respectively. They are fun to hear when the band opens and are good indicators about the condition of skip-land.
42.96 and 43.00 MHz are very old business band channels that had an unusually high number of users back in the day. You might find someone still there with or without a current FCC license.
35.04 and 43.04 MHz are for itinerant business band operation -- meaning not at any fixed location. Statewide or nationwide licenses can be found here, along with people operating on expired licenses and those who never bothered to get a license in the first place.
And finally, don't forget 25.02 to 26.80 MHz -- the LOW low band. This is below the CB radio band and contains petroleum suppliers, offshore oil rigs, remote broadcast pickup transmitters, and who know what else.
With a good antenna system and some patience, low band can still be an adventure. Have fun!
Thanks, that's enticing! I think I'm going to have to set something up and play around with the low VHF.
jjhendo
Member
So one of these ground plane CB amtennas for 11 meters would be better for 8 meters than a discone? How would you shorten the radials? Cut them? Id probably just pick up another antenna. I would ground them, only I'm in a 2nd story condo and not sure i can run anything to the ground.. Thanks.
How were you planing to mount it? Is there a balcony with a sturdy hand rail? Ideally you would want the antenna above the roof line but that might not be practical.
You should be able to get some results by mounting to the hand rail if available.
Just for some ideas, I'm kicking around the idea of using the flag mount I already have mounted to the roof eve. It has a base that allows adjusting the angle from 90 to 0 degrees. The mast size that fits into it is 1 inch. 3/4 SCH 40 PVC pipe is just a tick over that so I'm going to chuck it into the mini lathe and turn it down till it just slips inside the base. 1/2 EMT conduit will fit inside the 3/4 PVC
Then all that has to be done is cut at least a couple of wire radials and run them down at an angle attaching them to the PL 239 connector.
A picture of the mount might help:
Attachments
jjhendo
Member
I probably should have mentioned that I do have a belcony and im on the 2nd of 2 stories. I have a loop antenna along with my discone on the railing right now. Not sure how tall of an antenna the HOA will allow..
A CB vertical like the Solarcon/Antron 99 is 18ft tall, fiberglass construction. The Sirio GPA27-45 (27-45 MHz) is approximately 15ft while the GPA40-70 (40-70 MHz) is about 10.5ft tall. The Sirio antennas are aluminum construction.
At these lower frequencies, there is really no getting around the size of the antennas.
Sirio antennas are sold in the US. One of the members here who regularly posts to the VHF Low band thread uses a GPA27-45.
www.sirioantenne.it
At these lower frequencies, there is really no getting around the size of the antennas.
Sirio antennas are sold in the US. One of the members here who regularly posts to the VHF Low band thread uses a GPA27-45.
GPA series
1/4 λ ground plane, Omnidirectional, 27 ... 230 MHz Tunable, Systems: 10m-HAM, 6m-HAM, 2m-HAM, 1.25m-HAM, VHF Airband, VHF Marine Band, VHF Low-band (66-88MH...
www.sirioantenne.it
that machine has not been in Brainard for at least 3 years
as I installed it here in Chippewa Falls in 2022
| 53.110 | 52.110 | W9CVA | 110.9 PL | Chip Falls 6M | Chippewa Falls 6M |
The Solarcon must be an endfed halfwave or maybe a collinear antenna with two 1/4 wave elements as the 1/4 wave for 27Mhz is 8 feet 8 inches.A CB vertical like the Solarcon/Antron 99 is 18ft tall, fiberglass construction. The Sirio GPA27-45 (27-45 MHz) is approximately 15ft while the GPA40-70 (40-70 MHz) is about 10.5ft tall. The Sirio antennas are aluminum construction.
At these lower frequencies, there is really no getting around the size of the antennas.
Sirio antennas are sold in the US. One of the members here who regularly posts to the VHF Low band thread uses a GPA27-45.
GPA series
1/4 λ ground plane, Omnidirectional, 27 ... 230 MHz Tunable, Systems: 10m-HAM, 6m-HAM, 2m-HAM, 1.25m-HAM, VHF Airband, VHF Marine Band, VHF Low-band (66-88MH...
1/4 wave on 52Mhz is only 4 feet 6 inches. That should be doable on a balcony rail.
If it was me I would put up the flag mount with a flag in it and then on occasion swap it with the 6 meter 1/4 wave vertical with two thin hard to see wire radials of the same 4 foot 6 inches. A loading coil and clip in radials extensions would also be something to think about to improve the lower VHF reception.
You should submit a RRDB update with this info...
would be good to do
but I dont normally submit changes for systems I am not involved with
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Very likely.
It doesn't hurt if the radials are longer than you need. I wouldn't worry about cutting those if they are a little long. Better too long than too short. If you went with a CB antenna, leaving the radials long would let you turn it back into a CB antenna easily.
Pretty easy to make a homebrew 1/4 wave antenna. I'd probably give that a try before purchasing something. Might even try a wire dipole cut for around 40MHz and see how it works.
jjhendo
Member
I like the homebrew idea, but one for 40 MHz may be a bit huge for my balcony.. Probably some vertical.
Do 1/4 wave for 6 meters. You'll be able to use it to operate on 6 meters when you get your license. It will work well-enough for receive purposes below 50 MHz, certainly better than the discone.
As I mentioned before, I used a Cushcraft Ringo Ranger 6 meter antenna for low band receive and had good results.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
A basic 1/4 wave will be half as tall and they are easy to build. Lots of online instructions and calculators out there.
Go with the 6 meter Ringo Ranger. It doesn't need radials. Mount the antenna to a 3 foot metal pipe and stick the pipe in one of those large planter pots. Fill with topsoil. Heck, you can even plant geraniums or something else to church it up it a little. I saw that setup in action. A ham friend did that to avoid the prying eyes of the HOA Karens. Everything worked well (transmit and receive) and no one really noticed the antenna being there.
prcguy
Member
In my experience a typical tune to frequency antenna like a 1/4 wave ground plane, 1/2 wave dipole, NMO mobile loaded 1/4 wave, Cushcraft Ringo (the Ringo Ranger doesn't exist for 6m) and so on only has a couple MHz of good performance then it goes downhill fast. Trying to use a resonant 6m antenna at 33MHz will probably put you 20dB down in performance compared to the same antenna actually tuned to 33MHz. I've done range tests with VHF lo military radios and have seen the dismal out of band performance of a narrow antenna used out of band compared to a broad band military antenna designed for it. Same with using various CB antennas for the 30-50MHz band, when you get 5-10MHz or more away from the CB band the antenna becomes a random coat hanger. If skip conditions are great you don't need all that much antenna but what about scanning or searching VHF lo for local stuff? Using an antenna 10 or 20Mhz out of band is not going to pick up much there.
There are lots of broad band surplus military antennas that work well across 30-76MHz or more and they are real antennas designed to do this. Some to look for might be the COM201B ground plane, OE-254 bicone, various vehicle whips like the AS-3900/VRC and similar over some ground radials or chicken wire as a ground plane. There are also many surplus military log periodics that cover 30-76MHz with 4 to 5dBd gain.
You can also build a very broad band vertically polarized 30-90MHz bow tie using some wire, PVC pipe and making a simple 4:1 balun. I had the complete plans for that but lost it in a computer crash and have not been able to locate it online, but its out there somewhere.
There are lots of broad band surplus military antennas that work well across 30-76MHz or more and they are real antennas designed to do this. Some to look for might be the COM201B ground plane, OE-254 bicone, various vehicle whips like the AS-3900/VRC and similar over some ground radials or chicken wire as a ground plane. There are also many surplus military log periodics that cover 30-76MHz with 4 to 5dBd gain.
You can also build a very broad band vertically polarized 30-90MHz bow tie using some wire, PVC pipe and making a simple 4:1 balun. I had the complete plans for that but lost it in a computer crash and have not been able to locate it online, but its out there somewhere.
jjhendo
Member
Length would be about 11.7' according to the google. My deck might be just long enough, or might be able to do that or as a V?
