SDS100/SDS200: SDS-100 Li-ion battery question

Status
Not open for further replies.

hiegtx

Mentor
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 8, 2004
Messages
11,486
Location
Dallas, TX
Can’t you run it using the USB charge cord without the battery in the house?
Yes, but you would no longer have the option for recording calls, and the Replay option is also lost.

However, if you power the scanner via the micro-USB (USB-1) port instead of the Mini-USB (USB-2), the battery will not be charged, but replay & recording still work as long as the battery is still in place, even though it's not powering the scanner. (I verified this by trying on my SDS100.)
 

n1chu

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 18, 2002
Messages
2,992
Location
Farmington, Connecticut
Yep, and this is the only way I've been powering my SDS100 at home after the battery swelled to the point that the battery cover nearly popped off on its own. (This was the higher-capacity replacement battery Uniden sent me after I purchased the scanner, not the one that originally came with it.)
Well, so far I’ve not had a problem with the smaller pac or the 3 larger pacs I have. I have not been religious in rotating them either but statistically the chances of swelling are slight. But I do feel your pain. I’ve had other LI-po’s go bad… and that was before I learned what might have happened, namely the swelling. fire, and explosion. I consider myself fortunate that it didn’t start a fire. One question I do have relates to the chemical makeup of the Uniden battery-Why, if it’s a LI-Po, haven't we heard of actual fire or smoke? What is it that Uniden has spec’ed out for the composition of the battery that limits the bad ones to swelling only? Or has Uniden been dodging that bullet?
 

Ubbe

Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
9,837
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
One of the two IC's inside the battery are a constant 500mA charge current limiter. That IC also seems to have an input for a temp sensor. Don't know what the other IC do.

I cut off the middle cell that have swelled but cell voltage where 0,1V so thought that cells where unrecoverable. Scanner didn't like that cell voltage and refused to charge. I used a variable voltage power supply and slowly charged directly on the cells, they are in parallel, and after a couple of hours the voltage where up to 3,5V and then worked to charge in the scanner. It seems to hold voltage and work fine but of course it can only be 2/3 of the capacity at best. But battery can still be used as normal and recording to SD card then also works. I just need a new battery door clip that doesn't cost a fortune in shipping cost, or I continue to use a string around the scanner to hold the door in place.

Battery are manufactured by Corun for Uniden with parts# ICP883256 and there's some safety information available for it online. A three cell pack each 3,7V 1800mAh 50mm x 30mm x 10mm connected directly to each other in parallel without any balancing, making it more or less a time bomb waiting to go off and create swelling if the cells aren't exactly matched at the factory.

/Ubbe
 
Last edited:

Ubbe

Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
9,837
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
What is it that Uniden has spec’ed out for the composition of the battery that limits the bad ones to swelling only? Or has Uniden been dodging that bullet?
The cells are in plastic bag with a lot of room to swell and doesn't explode. If you have lipo cells in a closed container it may shortcircuit and explode if they cannot expand. Unidens battery are held together by electrical tape to allow them to swell without resistance.

If you have a firecracker or a rifle bullet and take them apart and pour out the gunpowder and ignite it, it will only burn and not explode. It's the expansion against a solid container that will build up pressure and will then burst and release the explosion.

/Ubbe
 

Ubbe

Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
9,837
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
I took my sds100 battery pack fully apart today, this is the 2nd one that puffed up and split open all on it's own. I posted a photo in my other thread here: SDS100: - 2nd swollen SDS100 battery in 1 year
All three cells have swelled and there's nothing that can be done. There are 1800mAh packs at Aliexpress that seem to have the right size and doesn't cost much. Those have their own balancing circuit inside each pack that consists of 3 cells each, but should be fine to use as a direct replacement.

I begin to think that the weak battery clip are not a design flaw but a deliberate way of Uniden to make it work as a safety device to break under pressure to let the battery swell as much as it wants. Replacing that clip with a third party one that are much stronger might not be a good idea.
If the battery cannot swell freely it will push the different layers of chemicals together inside the cell and cause a chemical shortcircuit that produce heat and eventually will ignite in flames.

/Ubbe
 

n1chu

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 18, 2002
Messages
2,992
Location
Farmington, Connecticut
The cells are in plastic bag with a lot of room to swell and doesn't explode. If you have lipo cells in a closed container it may shortcircuit and explode if they cannot expand. Unidens battery are held together by electrical tape to allow them to swell without resistance.

If you have a firecracker or a rifle bullet and take them apart and pour out the gunpowder and ignite it, it will only burn and not explode. It's the expansion against a solid container that will build up pressure and will then burst and release the explosion.

/Ubbe
Under the fire and explosion investigation definition, an explosion is a physical reaction characterized by the presence of four major elements or criteria:

(1.) Rapid Increase in Gas Pressure (Gas Dynamic)

(2.) Confinement of the Pressure

(3.) Rapid release of that Pressure

(4.) Damage or Change to the confining structure of the vessel

"Noise is not an element"

"Explosion Investigation and Analysis, Kennedy on Explosions"; Kennedy, Patrick M. and Kennedy, John P15-16

There is also the rate at which the gunpowder burns to be considered. Black powder burns at a different rate than smokeless powder for example… and as you say, containment also plays into the difference between a rapid burn and an explosion. But are all four elements present? I don’t know where they draw the line determining when a rapid burn turns into an explosion but In the fire service it’s that burn rate that classified an explosion. A “charged house” is a house that is on fire (a fire which has banked down), the rate of burn is slowed due to the lack of oxygen… until someone opens an outside door or window, allowing a supply of oxygen to mix with the flammable gasses inside, the results are a rapid burn that imitates an explosion but is referred to as a “blow back”. If it’s you that opened up the front door you will find yourself blown out into the front yard. That’s why you see the FD cutting holes in the roof… in an effort to “vent” the hot gasses out of the house first, before attempting to gain access… no blow back. The interior fire will increase but not at a rate that increases so much in intensity as to cause what most would refer to as an explosion, that rapid expansion of gasses that creates pressures strong enough to knock you off your feet or propel you backwards.

It’s interesting that OSHA says a MSDS is not needed for the battery Uniden uses in its SDS100 because if it were susceptible to exploding a MSDS would be required… and since we haven’t heard of these batteries doing anything worse than swelling, I wonder what it is that prevents fire and explosions. My guess is the composition of the battery differs from a true definition of a Lithium ion LiPo battery enough to not have the same characteristics as what we know to be true Li-Po’s that can exhibit fires and explosions, but still qualify as a LI-Po. Maybe it’s simply the physical size, meaning the battery doesn’t contain enough of the material that would allow it to heat up to a temperature hot enough to start a fire. I guess a chemist could be consulted to get an answer to that.
 

morrisr3nd

Just kind of taking it all in
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
422
Location
Hattiesburg, MS
Can’t you run it using the USB charge cord without the battery in the house?
But my understanding is that if the battery is not installed that you will be unable to record. Not sure if you do that or not.
 

morrisr3nd

Just kind of taking it all in
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
422
Location
Hattiesburg, MS
All three cells have swelled and there's nothing that can be done. There are 1800mAh packs at Aliexpress that seem to have the right size and doesn't cost much. Those have their own balancing circuit inside each pack that consists of 3 cells each, but should be fine to use as a direct replacement.

I begin to think that the weak battery clip are not a design flaw but a deliberate way of Uniden to make it work as a safety device to break under pressure to let the battery swell as much as it wants. Replacing that clip with a third party one that are much stronger might not be a good idea.
If the battery cannot swell freely it will push the different layers of chemicals together inside the cell and cause a chemical shortcircuit that produce heat and eventually will ignite in flames.

/Ubbe
Which 1800mAh packs at Aliexpress were you referring to? Please put the link in here?
 

W5ATX

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
224
After owning (4) sds100's the bottom line for me is that this $700 scanner isn't enjoyable anymore, I can't use it to it's full potential without a battery, among other flaws. I'm not even chasing another battery from uniden, and i don't want to chance any potential damage, to the radio or my property, explosion or not. and i'm surely not going to be rebuilding any battery packs. I just wanted to share my experience with having not 1, but 2 batteries swell up in a 1-year period. All i can say is RIP Upman.
 

KB3BRI

Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2021
Messages
43
Location
Baltimore/Harford MD
Yes, but you would no longer have the option for recording calls, and the Replay option is also lost.

However, if you power the scanner via the micro-USB (USB-1) port instead of the Mini-USB (USB-2), the battery will not be charged, but replay & recording still work as long as the battery is still in place, even though it's not powering the scanner. (I verified this by trying on my SDS100.)
That’s very useful to know, thank you
 

n1chu

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 18, 2002
Messages
2,992
Location
Farmington, Connecticut
But my understanding is that if the battery is not installed that you will be unable to record. Not sure if you do that or not.
That is not my understanding… the USB cable will power the radio and allow the record feature to work… and all other aspects of the radio. Now, if you were to remove the memory chip after the radio has been turned on and allowed to boot up, there would be no place to store your recordings. But I do not use the record feature so others here that do can verify for you.
 

morrisr3nd

Just kind of taking it all in
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
422
Location
Hattiesburg, MS
That is not my understanding… the USB cable will power the radio and allow the record feature to work… and all other aspects of the radio. Now, if you were to remove the memory chip after the radio has been turned on and allowed to boot up, there would be no place to store your recordings. But I do not use the record feature so others here that do can verify for you.
Mu apologies. I had read differently.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top