SDS200e New user query

[rocky28965]

My usage will be a little different to most for this radio as I am in New Zealand.
I have used Sentinel to do the updates & will be using ProScan for programming.
All programming will be done using favorites.

I currently have a BCD996P2 programmed but want to duplicate it onto the SDS200e

Question
I have 8 conventional groups of frequencies.
Am I better to have them under 8 favorites or have 8 systems under 1 favorite ?

 

[MStep]

My usage will be a little different to most for this radio as I am in New Zealand.
I have used Sentinel to do the updates & will be using ProScan for programming.
All programming will be done using favorites.

I currently have a BCD996P2 programmed but want to duplicate it onto the SDS200e

Question
I have 8 conventional groups of frequencies.
Am I better to have them under 8 favorites or have 8 systems under 1 favorite ?

Strictly a matter of personal preference. I would opt for having 8 favorites so that I can quickly turn on or off those that I want to monitor or discard. The SDS200 is an extremely flexible radio which offers many options for those who like to tinker and "fine-tune" their listening.

You could have 8 separate favorites list, but also add a 9th favorites list that encompasses all your stuff. Best of both worlds. Enjoy.

 

[rocky28965]

Thanks, I'll start with that and see how it works out.
Next question.
There are 2 DMR Tier3 system's in this area.
One is only active when someone is using it which is fine to add to a scan list.
But the other is continually active like a control channel.
Any way to get around that ?

 

[Ubbe]

Any way to get around that ?

To hear every conversation you'll need to program those systems as MotoTrbo trunked. If you know what frequencies belongs to each system and site then run LCN finder on them if you do not have that information.

You can always program DMR trunked as One Frequency Trunked system OFT, and that will only react to conversations and not the control data or idle data. Just enter all channels and the scanner will check them and monitor the one that has a conversation. But you cannot follow calls if they move between frequencies, you'll need MotoTrbo for that.

/Ubbe

 

[rocky28965]

I have tried adding the two DMR frequencies to one of my scan lists.
One works fine like that. The scan will stop on it when there is a transmission just like all the other conventional ones.
But the other will just stop the scan, so can't leave that one in the list.

I've had a go at setting it up on it's own as one frequency trunked but can't seem to get the radio to read it.

Re setting it up MotoTrbo trunked.
Will the LCN finder work at my end of the world.
None of these systems are on the RR database.

 

[ScanHen]

The LCN finder is not OK for me. Lately I found a Cap+ network with 4 frequencys. I started the LCN finder and after a while it alerted me that all LCN's where found. I checked these numbers and they all where set to 0. This did not work at all so I started DSD+ and found LCN's 2 ,4, 6 and 8 and programmed these in the scanner. The network worked well after that.

 

[Ubbe]

all LCN's where found. I checked these numbers and they all where set to 0.

It does that if you abort the LCN finder by exit or avoid. You will have to go to scan by Fn+System on x36, or "to Scan" on SDS, as it says on the display, or the found values will not be saved.

It checks the control data for conversations, what TG and channel that have been assigned, and checks the frequencies that have been programmed for that site for the same TG and then assumes it is the correct channel/LCN. If you mix frequencies from different sites in one site it gets confused. So check signal strengths of frequencies if they are about equal and will then probably be from the same site. It works on most systems around the world except perhaps maxcap or systems that use direct frequency assignment DFA.

/Ubbe

 

[rocky28965]

I need some with my DMR issue, as mentioned in posts 3 & 5
I have tried setting them up as DMR One Frequency.
Also MotoTRBO.
I have watched lots of YouTube videos explaining how to do this but none relate to my particular situation.
As in, I don't know what the LCN is or what color.
I don't know the TGID or site ID.
I know the frequencies & the radio will decode them if they are installed as conventional.

 

[Ubbe]

When it's DMR TierIII it will be easy to use DSDplus as it will decode and show site Id and also the site Id of the other sites that you do not monitor. The decode will also show what LSN the control channel has for the adjacent sites. It also show what LSN the voice channels has when the control channel send that info about conversations on the site.

So if you make notes of what frequencies you can hear a control channel, where there are a constant datasignal, and match that with what the site id are and LSN, then use the LSN to LCN converter you can find here in RR. Then also make note of the voice channels you can hear and when you have the LSN of voice channels from DSDplus you can convert to LCN to match with the frequencies you have found.

/Ubbe

 

[rocky28965]

Thanks Ubbe, I'll fire up the SDR and try my luck with that.

 

[rocky28965]

I ran a fresh install of DSD Plus so the data files would only contain current info.
Ran it for about an hour today monitoring 2 channels intermittently.
I was using a RSPdx on SDRUno.
Wasn't a lot of traffic but got data from both channels.
Doesn't help me a lot.
I will attach the event file.
I hope this is not violating any forum rules.

 

[Ubbe]

Not much activity on the sites so far. But if you managed to hear those TG1081885 calls it was on ch129 on site 35.6 and you where monitoring a control channel frequency. When it says that TG and private calls use both slot 1 and slot 2 you are monitoring a voice channel as the control channel always use slot 2 (?) which is an even numbered channel.

To me it made more sense with site numbers if I set the TIIIareaLength to 2 in the DSDPlus.networks file as it match with what the radio techs called it when they managed the system, but depends of how the system admin have set it up.

It doesn't send any adjacent site info, what sites that radios should roam to if they loose coverage, or DCC color code. So this is the first site they built, or the system only has one site but the site number indicates that several sites are planned.

In the TIII system I monitored it looked like this when I had DSDPlus on site 12's control channel:

2018/05/22 22:58:32 Current network: L13 Net13
2018/05/22 22:58:32 Current site: L13-1.12
2018/05/22 22:58:32 DCC=3 L13-1.12 neighbor: Site L13-1.13; CC=532 423.306250
2018/05/22 22:58:32 DCC=3 L13-1.12 neighbor: Site L13-1.15; CC=558 423.468750
2018/05/22 22:58:33 DCC=3 L13-1.12 neighbor: Site L13-1.16; CC=546 423.393750
2018/05/22 22:58:34 DCC=3 L13-1.12 neighbor: Site L13-1.17; CC=506 423.143750

It only seem to be one control channel frequency and one voice channel frequency that are in use so far in your system.
The voice channel are the ch129 and also ch130. You have the frequency for that and you have the frequency of the control channel.

Use the LSN/LCN calculator to see what channel number the control channel has, and you already know the voice channels number and frequency, and enter the findings in the DSDPlus.frequencies file and when that are correct it will track and monitor the calls.

TIII, 13, 1.12, 543, 423.38125, 413.38125, 0 #OK
TIII, 13, 1.12, 544, 423.38125, 413.38125, 0 #OK
TIII, 13, 1.13, 511, 423.18125, 413.18125, 0 #
TIII, 13, 1.13, 512, 423.18125, 413.18125, 0 #

LCN to Frequency calculator for DMR TIII | RadioReference.com Forums


It looks like you only have one control channel. The frequency where you hear TG and private calls are the only voice channel in use. You mention two TIII systems but only one control channel have been found. Do you get different system id from them or perhaps the one without control channel are actually just the voice channels to the first system?

/Ubbe

 

[rocky28965]

It could be that one is the control & the other the voice.
Although they are a fair distance apart.
From a license search of the repeater site I got the channel numbers.
TD316 417.95000MHz
TD64 414.80000MHz
TD316 transmits continually like a control channel
They are both listed as "Land Repeater (Up to 5 transmit locations)"

My location is rural & as far as I am aware this is the only repeater site in the area.
There is also a MPT-1327 system on this site.
I have been tracking that also but it only seems to use 2 voice channels.

 

[Ubbe]

According to the calculator it is LCN31 for 414.800 and LCN157 for 417.950 Program that in a MotoTrbo system.

Do search between 414MHz and 421MHz using 25KHz steps to try and locate other control channels.

For the MPT1327 system you can decode the control channel and it will log what voice channels it uses.

snabel-0.8.1.zip

drive.google.com

/Ubbe

 

[rocky28965]

My old brain is trying to decipher all that info.

You're suggesting TG316 417.95000 is a control channel & can be set up on my SDS200E as a MotoTrbo system ?

Whereas TG64 414.80000 is a voice channel & I need to find the control channel for it ?

 

[Ubbe]

From a license search of the repeater site I got the channel numbers.
TD316 417.95000MHz
TD64 414.80000MHz
TD316 transmits continually like a control channel

Both are probably from the same site. So program them as two channels in the same site with their LCN numbers and set IDSearch to On and it should track the calls. Set the Hold time to 5 sec and when you know a TG you can program that, push Enter while it is active or program manually, and use a delay of 10sec. There's no delay time to set for IDSearch TG's, but it's on the wish list for future firmware upgrades.

What you know now:

System H2
Site 35.6
414.800 LCN31
417.950 LCN157

TG=1081885

UID
Group1= 8547 9010 12315
Group2=1085270 1085308 1085335 1085336
Group3=1121063 1121069

You can unzip the NZ file and then import the hpe in Sentinel.

/Ubbe

 

[rocky28965]

Thanks for your help & your patience Ubbe

That's got it going.
I used Proscan but it imported the hpe ok.
I've set the scan to run & are monitoring it on the Proscan logging.
That shows the TGID & UID groups. About 20 hits in the last half hour
All appear to be from 417.9500.
The CC shows as 0
The radio panel is showing a Site ID of 277

I havent added any talk groups as yet

 

[Ubbe]

That shows the TGID & UID groups. About 20 hits in the last half hour
All appear to be from 417.9500.

When it uses slot 1 and slot 2 at the same time and a 3:rd call starts it will use slot 1 of 414.800
But to monitor that call you will have to avoid both calls in the 417.950 frequency, or if they end and only leave the 414.800 call still active.

Keep decoding the control channel once a week using DSDPlus to see if any adjacent site info appears, that would indicate that a new site have been installed.

/Ubbe

 

[rocky28965]

I have gained a little more data through monitoring the control channel.
Another TG # & 3 RID #
There are also 3 CH #

I have created another system identical to the one you made, so will experiment with that one.

Not too sure just how or where to add the data to it.
Should I add the second TG # to Group 2 or create another group ?
Should the channel numbers be entered somewhere ?
You have the Unit IDs under 3 group numbers, how do I add to those ?

Is there somewhere this information is readily available so I don't have to keep asking silly questions ?

 

[Ubbe]

Use the LCN calculator on the frequency to get its LCN and enter that, probably in the same site as the other two frequencies, and also add as a OFT system to see when its active and see if it trunktracks in the MotoTrbo system or should be in another site or system.

Look at what RIDs that use the new TG. It's probably only new RID's so you can make a new group for those users if they only do private calls to each other. Each RID group are probably a different company, or a a separate department of the same company.

You have to think of how they might be working and using their radios. A production plant with a shipping department, a janitor service, another company with guards at the gate, a taxi company and so on. Sometimes the system owners advertise on the Internet or in trade magazines that they have radio services to offer and then often give references to what companies they already have as customers.

/Ubbe