nd5y
Member
It probably only works if everybody is using the same radio brand with the same location data transmission format. The person in distress probably should have bought a PLB instead of GMRS radios.
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Search & Rescue Group Adopts GMRS/FRS Channel 3
- Thread starter KK6HRW
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For designation as an emergency channel it is great that 462.675 (Channel 20) is not only “high power’, but also has a history for travelers use. The PL tone, however, while necessary for repeater access, may only complicate and even reduce the effectiveness of any simplex channel used for emergencies.
Yep, that’s why I say try and get APRS for it. It’s well understood and anyone with a receiver can pick it up and see the radios location. You could conceivably use a random scanner set to the frequency plugged into a basic computer see on a screen as soon as someone declares an emergency with the radio.
Yep. If it’s a week signal, the tone may hide the transmission. You need everyone you can to try and pick it up.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
That's why it would only be on the TX side, not RX.
Leave RX CSQ and you'd be good. Keep 141.3Hz on the TX side, and it would be heard by those listening to the repeater outputs.
A lot of the NIFOG interop frequencies are set up that way, they keep 156.7Hz on the transmit side, even though they want users to monitor in carrier squelch.
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I live in the heart of what these wilderness protocols are suggesting.... on an isolated ranch on a mountainside of a huge valley in the Colorado Rockies. We are surrounded on three sides by 13-14,000 foot peaks in mountain ranges that extend as far as the eye can (+ 40 miles from my front porch.)
These mountains are a playground all year around--- snow machines in the winter, hiking and mountain biking, 4x4's ant ATV's Spring-thru-Fall.....
And every year someone get into trouble and needs to call for help.
I have an old Maxon GMRS HT that sits on a shelf in the front room window looking out over this valley. It is park'd on 462.675--- I guess that is what was once called Channel 6-- the "emergency frequency." I don't know what its call'd it today.
Several times a year we will hear the squelch open (its on CSQ) and a conversation ensues.... but never a call for help. I leave this on kind'a like the responsible citizen- and since its so silent it just sits there quietly un-noticed.
On top of a refrigerator is Icom tuned to 146.52. That comes alive when the snow melts and the SOTA (Summits on the Air) people take to the peaks.
But all-in-all we have never heard a call for help-- yet rescues happen around here frequently. I am told that even in the worst cases 'cel phones seem to work for even the green-ist flat landers,--- and that is the choice medium.
There are some places I go hiking where there is no 'cel coverage. Lately my hiking buddies have been carrying PLB's. But I still like to impress the new members of our group with my Icom Air-Band transceiver. Listening to the the Multi and Unicom frequencies we know someone out there has their 'ears' on and could relay a Serious call for help.
Personally I think the FRS/GMRS idea is noble, but I have yet to see anything that's encouraging.
Lauri
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These mountains are a playground all year around--- snow machines in the winter, hiking and mountain biking, 4x4's ant ATV's Spring-thru-Fall.....
And every year someone get into trouble and needs to call for help.
I have an old Maxon GMRS HT that sits on a shelf in the front room window looking out over this valley. It is park'd on 462.675--- I guess that is what was once called Channel 6-- the "emergency frequency." I don't know what its call'd it today.
Several times a year we will hear the squelch open (its on CSQ) and a conversation ensues.... but never a call for help. I leave this on kind'a like the responsible citizen- and since its so silent it just sits there quietly un-noticed.
On top of a refrigerator is Icom tuned to 146.52. That comes alive when the snow melts and the SOTA (Summits on the Air) people take to the peaks.
But all-in-all we have never heard a call for help-- yet rescues happen around here frequently. I am told that even in the worst cases 'cel phones seem to work for even the green-ist flat landers,--- and that is the choice medium.
There are some places I go hiking where there is no 'cel coverage. Lately my hiking buddies have been carrying PLB's. But I still like to impress the new members of our group with my Icom Air-Band transceiver. Listening to the the Multi and Unicom frequencies we know someone out there has their 'ears' on and could relay a Serious call for help.
Personally I think the FRS/GMRS idea is noble, but I have yet to see anything that's encouraging.
Lauri
.
That's basically the DSC distress function on marine radios. A important factor is that there's laws requiring monitoring of distress call on large boats, and more importantly, young children and bored adults typically don't get ahold of marine radios. You also have to register a MMSI number with your details.
Yep, more or less. In an ideal world, in places like state and national parks, there would be someone(s) who monitor the channel 24/7, or at least has a radio that can wake up and alert when triggered by the radios.
While designated FRS channels have proven to work well some specific applications, such as deconflicting parties in avalanche terrain (as I posted on above) I think a dedicated FRS/GMRS channel for SOS is a poor idea, for most all of the reasons others have listed.
In the front country and side country (AKA "slack country"), these days most SAR calls originate from cell phones. Regarding the use of air-band radios, back in the day, before PLB and InReach, that was a common practice for back country trips in remote areas of Alaska. I recall hearing one story of a party in a remote part of the Brooks Range (which means virtually all of the Brooks Range) who contacted an airliner on an over the pole route, who relayed the request to SAR. These days InReach has almost completely taken over that role. PLBs are also still useful, but the InReach has the huge advantage of allowing reliable 2way comms with the rescue authorities.
In general, for areas without reliable cell coverage, InReach is a much better choice than any radio for most backcountry emergency situations. They have achieved an extremely good track record for handling SOS situations. For some statistics see:
Data Insights from 10,000 Garmin inReach SOS Incidents | Blog
Learn about the who, what, where, and why people trigger an SOS on their inReach satellite communicator.
www.garmin.com
While those devices are the gold standard, I think a lot of use cases we’re talking about with FRS are for cases where there’s a low chance of bad stuff happening (well known hiking trails that are frequently used) but then something does happen. You’re just walking and then suddenly the path gives out from underneath you or you made a wrong turn and and now lost. I can also see a use case of you have a locator but the conditions make it impossible to get you now, then they can at least communicate with you.While designated FRS channels have proven to work well some specific applications, such as deconflicting parties in avalanche terrain (as I posted on above) I think a dedicated FRS/GMRS channel for SOS is a poor idea, for most all of the reasons others have listed.
In the front country and side country (AKA "slack country"), these days most SAR calls originate from cell phones. Regarding the use of air-band radios, back in the day, before PLB and InReach, that was a common practice for back country trips in remote areas of Alaska. I recall hearing one story of a party in a remote part of the Brooks Range (which means virtually all of the Brooks Range) who contacted an airliner on an over the pole route, who relayed the request to SAR. These days InReach has almost completely taken over that role. PLBs are also still useful, but the InReach has the huge advantage of allowing reliable 2way comms with the rescue authorities.
In general, for areas without reliable cell coverage, InReach is a much better choice than any radio for most backcountry emergency situations. They have achieved an extremely good track record for handling SOS situations. For some statistics see:
Data Insights from 10,000 Garmin inReach SOS Incidents | Blog
Learn about the who, what, where, and why people trigger an SOS on their inReach satellite communicator.
WaveFront
Member
I don't see why the 'help' channel can't be 19, same as for highway, just take your conversations to another channel after contact. That way you get as many ears on the channel as possible and maybe from different elevations. I seem to remember 19 was adopted by GMRS for Highway travel just as 19 was used for CB call channel and road information. I don't think there would be much 19 traffic that would interfere with any rescue operation and allows the people needing help to get help from a wide variety of people, maybe even before the rescue teams are aware of a problem.
Line A is why not.
WaveFront
Member
Are you really going to have any interference from highway traffic and back country rescue traffic that isn't more helpful than a hinderance? I'm not convinced there is a real conflict here, it not like either use case is occurring very often. Anyway I could be wrong, but having another dedicated channel in a system of very limited channels does not really sound all that desirable. Piggy backing makes more sense to me, but...
The Canadians apparently don't agree with you.
DeeEx
Member
Audiovox had that feature in some bubble pack models, roughly 2001. I think the model series was 1500. The early one had 2W PEP and SMA removable antennae, the later ones were lower power and fixed antennae.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
And, that was part of the challenge at the time. Back in 2001, 2 watts and a removable antenna made it a GMRS only radio.
GMRS had the 462.675 "travelers information" that was commonly used by REACT.
Great idea, but in 2001, FRS did not have access to those frequencies.
Up until a few years ago, these attempts at a standardized emergency frequency ran into the lack of standards of channels and channel numbering.
Maybe just attach a mirror and a whistle to every radio, it would probably be as successful.
@mmckenna <private>While I have a Garmin, I still carry a mirror, whistle and compass. Shhh...don't tell the others or we might keep some of them alive.</private>
Joking aside, I did test some mirrors once with a buddy over a mile away and it works fine. Still, line of sight at 6' height each end is around six miles. I even carry colored smoke.
Joking aside, I did test some mirrors once with a buddy over a mile away and it works fine. Still, line of sight at 6' height each end is around six miles. I even carry colored smoke.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
<---------I had to learn a lot of that stuff at my previous employer. Sometimes the basics work really well. Self rescue is always a good option.
Many, however, want one tool that does it all, and it better play music and allow them to play Angry Birds while they are waiting for the helicopter.
And also attach a bright orange jacket.
CH19 was never "adopted". It was discussed and some said yes and some said no. In the end there is no designation and never will be regardless what youtube or other sites say.
Been doing SAR for 25+ years and over the years have carried FRS radios on missions. I have yet to find a lost hunter that actually tried his radio. Maybe the CH3 idea will catch on but at this point if I know the subject has a radio I'll listen otherwise we have our own equipment to listen on.
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