Sequoia & Kings Canyon National Parks

[SCPD]

Wow! I can you afford 5 (?) BKs with four command models and three digital command models? If you have a source for the regular DPH model and its reasonable, I would like to get one. Their is a place called "49er Communications" or some such that is selling them, but the price is still too high, even for a used one.

For the past four year's i have been purchasing my BK DPH's from Vincent Communications in Fresno for a awesome firefighter discount price.

My current fire equipment to a incident is two BK DPH's Command's one on the belt with a speaker mic/bk recon earpiece, the other in a radio chest harness.

Fire pager is a Swissphone RE72, backup with a Kenwood TK-280 vhf 2-tone decode.

 

[SCPD]

What you have matches my information.

This system continues to frustrate me. The information in my first post came from an official printed channel list, a copy of which was given to me by a source that I trust. It has CTCSS tones listed for all the repeaters. This channel list is part of a document used for interagency fire operations. The repeaters may be able to operate in both a digital mode and analog mode.

I'm not sure if Cal Fire radios are capable of operating with digital modulation. When they respond for mutual aid it is possible that their air attack, tankers and helicopters are not capable of digital modulation. I would not be surprised if most local fire agencies can't operate digitally at all. Perhaps

Up to this point Sequoia Kings Canyon has only had two nets, the frontcountry and backcountry nets. There is a growing trend in large parks to separate fire and admin/law enforcement with two nets. There are two parks I know of that have built law enforcement only nets, Yosemite and Grand Canyon. Yellowstone has 4 nets, but they are not functionally based, rather they are location based, with all functions using each net.

I wish I could down there, sit on Morro Rock for a few hours a day and figure this thing out. For health reasons (recovery from surgery) I can't think about it for this year. I might not even be able to take a trip to the Owens Valley to listen to the Mt. Gould backcountry repeater. At the same time I can determine if it will work in the analog mode.

The last item is a crosswalk for CTCSS tones and NAC's.

1 110.9 455
2 123.0 4CE
3 131.8 526
4 136.5 555
5 146.2 5B6
6 156.7 61F
7 167.9 68F
8 103.5 40B
9 100.0 3E8
10 107.2 430
11 114.8 47C
12 127.3 4F9
13 141.3 585
14 151.4 5EA
15 162.2 656
16 192.8 788

As you can see the NAC's correspond with the California standard 16 tone system. It would be nice to see if the NAC matches the corresponding CTCSS tone I listed in my original post.

Forget Morro Rock as I would probably attract more attention than I want. Parkridge is the hub of the system, so a drive up there makes more sense.

The information given to you is a good source, don't no why SEKI changed to digital in the backcounrty?. As for my past SEKI fire experience the radio frequency/tones had changed so many time's from 1990's till now.

The radio shop at Ash Mt. did or still? handles all the communication's for all of western region, It was nice going into the shop to look at all the new toys back in the day.

Calfire has many BK DPH in the field but i don't see them using digital anytime soon

 

[Uplink]

Just saw this thread, we visited Sequoia Natn Park last month, we had a wonderful time, beautiful piece of the world up there. Close Call came in handy as the listings were obviously outdated at the time. I was hearing activity on:

171.700 PL 167.9 was in heavy use as Dispatch, heard calls and landmarks being called out all over the Giant Forest area, such as Wuksachi, General Sherman, Lodgepole, etc. Close call kept going off on this freq., very strong signal in these areas and Three Rivers where our hotel was. One ranger was even reporting a helo that was flying too low inside the park boundaries.

171.625 PL 167.9 was in use also but a much weaker signal.

172.1125 was in P25 mode and a simulcast of 171.700.

I heard all 3 of these come up simulcast in Three Rivers during the morning weather broadcast.

 

[ka3jjz]

Exsmokey - please check your PM

Thanks....Mike

 

[clovisb31]

P-25 channel

Might these be LE and Smokey has the Fire/Admin channels??

162.1625 would be the input What NAC ? or NAC's are you hearing

Ok...sorry for delay in response to this, I too had a medical excuse.

I am currently monitoring P-25 on 162.1625 NAC of 61F.

It is admin in nature, but back country related.

I notice that this frequency is not listed as an input to any of the back country repeaters, however, I have heard P-25 transmissions for the last several summers here.

This is the only P-25 transmissions I can hear at my location, which is in Sanger at the base of the mountains West of the NP. I don't really expect to hear any of the back country repeaters at my location, but I sure can hear a lot of mobiles and an occasional base on this input.

What say you Smokey?

 

[ecps92]

Can you hear the Repeater output on 169.6250 ?? if so see what NAC you get while $61F is on the input

Ok...sorry for delay in response to this, I too had a medical excuse.

I am currently monitoring P-25 on 162.1625 NAC of 61F.

It is admin in nature, but back country related.

I notice that this frequency is not listed as an input to any of the back country repeaters, however, I have heard P-25 transmissions for the last several summers here.

This is the only P-25 transmissions I can hear at my location, which is in Sanger at the base of the mountains West of the NP. I don't really expect to hear any of the back country repeaters at my location, but I sure can hear a lot of mobiles and an occasional base on this input.

What say you Smokey?

 

[clovisb31]

P-25

Can you hear the Repeater output on 169.6250 ?? if so see what NAC you get while $61F is on the input

I cannot hear anything on that (169.625) frequency. What is it used for? I don't notice it in the database for KNP.

However, an interesting development on 162.1625 NAC 61F....yesterday afternoon they were broadcasting the weather and fire reports. It was P-25 on 162.1625 but coming out ANALOG on the 171.675 main park channel. Obviously a simulcast situation for the afternoon broadcast. I think they tie all repeaters together front and back country for the afternoon broadcasts. (Well not technically tie them together , but simulcast to all repeaters via the dispatch console).

 

[ecps92]

Prior documents and threads. Not having actually validated it, it would not be submitted to the DB
http://forums.radioreference.com/ca...sion-forum/269443-kings-canyon-np-p-25-a.html

http://forums.radioreference.com/ca...9-kings-canyon-sequoia-national-park-knp.html

http://forums.radioreference.com/ca...um/244509-p25-activity-sierra-sequoia-nf.html

I cannot hear anything on that (169.625) frequency. What is it used for? I don't notice it in the database for KNP.

However, an interesting development on 162.1625 NAC 61F....yesterday afternoon they were broadcasting the weather and fire reports. It was P-25 on 162.1625 but coming out ANALOG on the 171.675 main park channel. Obviously a simulcast situation for the afternoon broadcast. I think they tie all repeaters together front and back country for the afternoon broadcasts. (Well not technically tie them together , but simulcast to all repeaters via the dispatch console).

 

[SCPD]

Prior documents and threads. Not having actually validated it, it would not be submitted to the DB
http://forums.radioreference.com/ca...sion-forum/269443-kings-canyon-np-p-25-a.html

http://forums.radioreference.com/ca...9-kings-canyon-sequoia-national-park-knp.html

http://forums.radioreference.com/ca...um/244509-p25-activity-sierra-sequoia-nf.html

The information I have for Sequoia Kings Canyon NP (SEKI in Park Service speak) is from a list provided to other agencies for mutual aid purposes. I also have some information from another source who I thought understood radio more than seems to be the case.

Thanks Bill, for the links to the three threads that are pertinent to the frequencies for this park. It is difficult to figure out what is really going on in SEKI as some folks don't understand the difference between a national park and a national forest. It doesn't help that various entities use the identifier "Sierra." That is bit of a no brainer as all these entities are in the Sierra Nevada.

The consistent issue that presents itself in those three threads is the 169.9250/162.1625 repeater pair. People seem to be reporting its use as a backcountry net. Having an output of 169.9250 doesn't make sense in light of how far away Wayne received 162.1625 from, along I-80 somewhere. I wonder if the input/output being reported is actually the other way around.

There are a lot of other observations presented in those threads, but they seem to be folks who have a little piece of the puzzle that they have reported incorrectly due to their misunderstanding of the USFS/NPS difference and being able to hear Yosemite and Sequoia Kings from the same location.

I think the list I provided is accurate and I think it is a good assumption that the repeaters are capable of both analog and digital operation. The NPS seems to be the most aggressive agency trying to convert to digital, an ill advised effort in my opinion, especially in the backcountry due to topographical coverage issues. However, the BLM, Forest Service and CDF are not making such an effort. These would be the most common mutual aid agencies for the NPS in wildland fire. In law enforcement the BLM and Forest Service would be the most frequent mutual aid providers. In the backcountry search and rescue teams from around the state are frequently brought in and they may not have digital capability or at least don't have their digital capable radios programmed to operate digitally. Given the price of the Bendix King digital handhelds, I have strong doubts that these teams, most volunteer organizations sponsored by sheriff's departments, can afford them.

Given Wayne's observations of backcountry repeaters and the NACs he noted it appears that each repeater for the backcountry has a separate NAC, unlike the analog side where a combination of two CTCSS tones are used with three different frequencies. Wayne's receptions were all on the single frequency pair of 169.9250/162.1625. The NACs he reported on one of the threads you gave all match up to the California 16 CTCSS tone list that has a NAC equivalent for each analog tone, with one exception and that is "777" or as he listed it "N777". I might as well provide the entire list and maybe that will help.

Tone # / CTCSS/ NAC

1/ 110.9 / 455
2 / 123.0 / 4CE
3 / 131.8 / 526
4 / 136.5 / 555
5 / 146.2 / 5B6
6 / 156.7 / 61F
7 / 167.9 / 68F
8 / 103.5 / 40B
9 / 100.0 / 3E8
10/ 107.2 / 430
11 / 114.8 / 47C
12 / 127.3 / 4F9
13 / 141.3 / 585
14 / 151.4 / 5EA
15 / 162.2 / 656
16 / 192.8 / 788

It is interesting that Wayne's list is in order number from 2 - 6 except for the NAC 777 for the Forgotten repeater. One theory is that the 169.9250/162.1625 is the digital system for the backcountry net. This makes sense, however, some have reported picking this pair up in analog also, but only on one occasion. This second backcountry net might be a command net for fires or SARs of long duration so that the backcountry rangers not involved on an incident can work on their day to day duties without interfering with the longer term incident. As you noted in one post, Bill, digital repeater systems usually use separate NACs for each repeater. Wayne's observations are consistent with that. The fact that this second net can be used in the analog mode as well. supports the theory that it has analog capability for mutual aid law enforcement, fire and SAR agencies that don't have digital capability.

Here is what I think should be done database wise. The channel plan I submitted should be shown, with a reference to the second backcountry net shown with a ?? for the channel. This second backcountry net should show CTCSS/NAC references for each repeater. I would like to get opinions from others before making a database submission.

For those listening to all the SEKI frequencies remember that numbers 1 - 4 indicate areas in the backcountry. The second digit of "1" indicates a protection ranger (law enforcement, EMS, SAR, structural fire). The unit IDs for fire will be the standard "Chief," "Division," Battalion,"Engine," "Fuels" and "Crew" type. I will post some other IDs with first digits of "5," "6" and "7" later after I attend to some household tasks.

Hopefully, we can get this figured out. And please, let me know if the database entry I propose makes sense.