Simulcasts?

[maus92]

OK, I made it up to Doylestown today. I was able to receive the Bucks system starting about I-476 south of Wayne. Pretty much receivable in all areas of the county I traversed, however there was slight warbling from time to time which is typical of P25P2 systems in a mobile environment when using a consumer grade radio like the SDS200. The Unication G5 was less warbly to the extent it wasn't particularly notable. Generally good RSSI with a good decode rate on the control channel. I will be posting an updated system frequency list to the RRDB.

The op could edit their tg programming to what is actually receivable, and delete extraneous system channels to leave only control channels - might speed up scanning slightly. Saw some interesting Peers / Neighbor sites which *might* indicate ISSI with nearby jurisdictions in operation.

Final note: for those watching Montgomery County, there was evidence that 769.30625 may be the primary control channel for their new system.

 

[trentbob]

OK, I made it up to Doylestown today. I was able to receive the Bucks system starting about I-476 south of Wayne. Pretty much receivable in all areas of the county I traversed, however there was slight warbling from time to time which is typical of P25P2 systems in a mobile environment when using a consumer grade radio like the SDS200. The Unication G5 was less warbly to the extent it wasn't particularly notable. Generally good RSSI with a good decode rate on the control channel. I will be posting an updated system frequency list to the RRDB.

The op could edit their tg programming to what is actually receivable, and delete extraneous system channels to leave only control channels - might speed up scanning slightly. Saw some interesting Peers / Neighbor sites which *might* indicate ISSI with nearby jurisdictions in operation.

Final note: for those watching Montgomery County, there was evidence that 769.30625 may be the primary control channel for their new system.

.

Great report!... no question about the consumer-grade radio compared to my mot gear and your professional pager... turns out BC Warehouse programmed all of the permanently encrypted TGs so they will be eliminated from the posters radio. In addition I was able to get a screenshot of the advanced screen and everything looked great. Noise level in the 400s and RSSI in the low 80s. 5 bars of course. Noise level jumping around a lot and I think Joey will benefit from a filter probably going to be invert or wide invert.

Thanks for your tremendous effort in helping.

 

[maus92]

Yes, experimenting with filters when listening from a fixed location is worth the effort.

 

[trentbob]

So Joey you were asking about talkgroups and what's encrypted. If you look on the far left you will find the talk group numbers for Bucks County Police. If you look under mode you see a T for tdma. Then you see a large E on some of the talk groups that means they are permanently full-time encrypted. You can enlarge it with your fingers.

 

[trentbob]

That was the wrong list standby for the right one.

 

[trentbob]

 

[joeyperillo]

thanks - discovered that on Radio Reference by actually reading what the things mean! Thanks for looking out for me.

 

[joeyperillo]

trentbob - here's a relic I dug up from my cobwebbed analog bin - would it have any value (other than novelty) screwed onto my SDS 200?

 

[trentbob]

trentbob - here's a relic I dug up from my cobwebbed analog bin - would it have any value (other than novelty) screwed onto my SDS 200?

Oh my goodness oh, I wish I still had mine. Well since you're listening to 700 megahertz and you're only listening that antenna would be ideal. You don't really need it for the bucks system as the system is strong. It could be some value in other 800 megahertz area systems...

One big factor here and I know you will appreciate this because you do have lots of knowledge it's just from the past... Look how many adapters you're using and you would need one more adapter, a right angle BNC. One thing with these antennas that was always an issue was the strain put on the BNC connection on your radio. I assume all of those adapters are necessary or you wouldn't be using them all.

I'm sure it would be fun to experiment with. You use your RSSI reading as a type of signal meter, the lower the number the better you are receiving. With my rooftop antenna I get 65 to 75 consistently on the Bucks County system. You were in the 80s. 80s are fine and you might even go to the seventies with a different filter. In a nutshell the way the filters work is different types of filter for different systems and it has to do with your particular RF environment. What works for me may not necessarily work for you however it's been pretty consistently invert or a wide invert for bucks system.

I would say have at it and enjoy the toy just be constantly conscious of the strain put on your BNC connection on the back of your radio. You might eliminate one of the adapters by having a short jumper of coax that attaches to the radio and you mount in some way the antenna a few feet from the radio. Maybe between two piles of books or something. Use your imagination LOL.

 

[joeyperillo]

trentbob - took a notion to put that giant "super" rubber duck antenna on the BC560XLT that I have on my bed stand in place of a standard stick - wow! This think really rocks VHF! Which brings me to this question - where and how do I find 151.220 mHz fire to put in the SDS? All I see on Sentinel is Fire and EMS - not the same as what is transmitted on 151.220......I like it.....on another note I haven't played with the sputnik yet......90 degree day took me out......

 

[trentbob]

Well Joey when you're done with this job from Hell which I certainly hope they're paying you at least $100 an hour for but for me it wouldn't be worth it LOL. Not worth my health, but anyway at the end of September at some point you're going to need to become very familiar with the database and you will have to read up all of the resources here on radio reference and learn how to use sentinel and program your radio to your liking. It's all in the database you just need to know where to look. It takes study and countless hours of attention, something you can do right now.

I also listen to 151.22 PL 97.4... unfortunately because the vendor programed your radio and doesn't know a thing about your area I'm assuming all they did was put in the Bucks County P2 system and not all of the other many frequencies that are used in the county. If you look in the database under Municipal listings you will see that the frequency you're looking for is under Falls Township. Forget the 46 megahertz simulcast frequency but 151.22 simply simulcast what's on the TRS on TG 16 and 46 that I hope BC Warehouse included in your programming of the P2 system. There is also the 700 megahertz direct channels that are low power simplex that are used on the fireground. That might be on that VHF frequency also... if two separate fires are going on in the east then operations for one of the fires will go over to the emergency band TG 19.

So using the function knob simply look at all of the talk groups on the P2 system and while sitting on a talk group press avoid twice on The Talk groups you do not want like the encrypted ones on a previous list and the ones that are not in your area and don't avoid the ones you want to scan and listen to like the fire East frequencies. Customize that favorites list which appears to be numbered 0 to just scan what you choose to hear.

As I say at some point you have a lot of homework to do to read about the radio and to study the database and learn how to use sentinel. It's difficult to walk someone through the very basics of all of this stuff, it's really something you need to get a grasp on yourself which will be difficult while you're in this job from hell.

This super antenna that you talked about is a long thick rubber duck that's kind of shiny and a little floppy correct? That is called an Austin condor and was really tuned to for VHF low and high. It is not recommended to use on 7 - 800 megahertz.

Your sds200 is a terrific radio and really only you can unlock its potential after becoming more familiar with it. There is so much information under sds200 on a search on RR or even Google. If you have any questions about something just Google it and it'll take you to the RR threads that will explain the answer. Wiki is also very good to use on RR.

Before I forget, since you're keeping the radio go into the little bag that has the hardware for the mounting bracket and you will find four little rubber squares. These are the feet. Unpeel them and place them where they belong on the bottom of the radio in the Four Corners. You also might want to use the mounting bracket inverted so that it is a stand that elevates the front of the radio and makes it easier to use.

 

[joeyperillo]

My friend, you are a ray of sunshine - and I mean that figuratively - I have and will continue to have more than my share of brutal sunshine as I continue to plod the earth for the good of the country - and my otherwise non existent bank account.....I am so heartened by what you say and can now dispel any and all buyer's regret I am suffering......(I think my CAR cost less than this radio).
I was hoping that I had a powerhouse gizmo and only had to learn, learn, learn.......you have helped me so much - I learn a lot just by applying the few things you have already told me......I'm up for the challenge....thank you, trentbob - the only thing nobody can change is that just about the most action up here involves a car and an errant wild animal......but as I learn and explore and eventually mount an outdoor antenna (which for now I don't need for what I listen to) I will no doubt find interesting stuff from places with more going on......thanks again - now I'm back to battling Ole Sol.......

 

[trentbob]

My friend, you are a ray of sunshine - and I mean that figuratively - I have and will continue to have more than my share of brutal sunshine as I continue to plod the earth for the good of the country - and my otherwise non existent bank account.....I am so heartened by what you say and can now dispel any and all buyer's regret I am suffering......(I think my CAR cost less than this radio).
I was hoping that I had a powerhouse gizmo and only had to learn, learn, learn.......you have helped me so much - I learn a lot just by applying the few things you have already told me......I'm up for the challenge....thank you, trentbob - the only thing nobody can change is that just about the most action up here involves a car and an errant wild animal......but as I learn and explore and eventually mount an outdoor antenna (which for now I don't need for what I listen to) I will no doubt find interesting stuff from places with more going on......thanks again - now I'm back to battling Ole Sol.......

Yep... I think your experience with scanners in the past is a great advantage and you just need to learn the new stuff. As far as what you listen to... I not only listen to local police and fire on numerous scanners simultaneously but I live by the river and I monitor Marine Transmissionetc. I monitor news helicopters air to air coordination, rail, Trenton, where I worked as a newspaper reporter now retired, Northeast Philly, Burco, Statewide Nets etc ect. I can't imagine doing this hobby without a rooftop antenna.

You can't do it now because of your job but eventually you'll get into it. You already have the radio, now you need the knowledge.

 

[joeyperillo]

Greetings Bob - Well, I'm still at this gummint job, still draggin' in all the overtime I can while I can......(I was in your hood most of today, Washington, Point, 2nd Avenue....) just wanted to check in and let you know I am still gonna need plenty of help from you to get this 200 tuned up.....I have changed filters on the favorite list and settled on one that seems best - but even with that most of the time it doesn't sound a whole lot better than the 536 I returned because of simulcast distortion....almost always it's so bad I just turn it off.....I appreciate your offer to help and will be taking you up on it.....just wanted you to know I'm still here....and thank you. (side note: is it my imagination or does Falls and Middletown come in much clearer than Zone 5 which is my area?)

 

[trentbob]

Hey Joey, don't really notice any difference with performance of any particular talk group. There is a noticeable deficit when it comes to AGC as the SDS series doesn't have AGC so you might have volume issues between talkgroups. Also depends on mouthpiece that dispatcher is using and how close the microphones are to the users.

I don't know if I ever mentioned it but you do have a volume offset setting. If you're listening to to talk groups that have obvious differences in volume level you can hold on one talk group and toggle function 0 and you will go through the cycle of -3 to +3 volume on that one talk group. Comes in handy when you're mixing conventional and digital objects. It's simply turns the volume up or down one notch, two notches or three notches on one particular object.

There clearly should be a world of difference between the 536 and the SDS. All of your readings on the detailed screen were good with a five by five indication. You don't have a defective speaker because you said that you were using a remote speaker.

Your last experience with FM two-way radio was the pre-digital old days. I can remember using cell phones at the newspaper back when we had bag phones and car phones. Then we got the Motorola flip phones and with the leather case on them we called them shoe phones. When digital cell phones came out for improved performance and clarity I remember thinking all the time that they were just the opposite and did not perform as well as the old analog cell phones. They just kept hammering the message on the advertisements that they were better and sounded better but I knew better. You could be noticing a phenomenon like that.

 

[joeyperillo]

Thanks, Bob - I have employed all your suggestions.....what I noticed about the Bucks Zones is not about volume,it's that my Zone 5 is often garbled yet Middletown and Falls are much more clear, base and mobile.....here's another strange thing: in the car I can hear "Countywide" yet at home not a peep on that channel....if they are all simulcast from the same towers shouldn't I hear Countywide? (I hear Doylestown and other far away in miles places.....) - and your cell phone analogy is great.....very often to this day cell phone calls are not great compared to the rotary days! Maybe I have to get used to the fact that digital trunked is always gonna have delays and echos and good days (transmissions) and bad ones.......when you have an opportunity please recommend a mag mount car antenna with a strong nod toward our 700mhz system....gonna buy you a java on Radcliffe Street soon as this plague clears......thanks!

 

[trentbob]

Thanks, Bob - I have employed all your suggestions.....what I noticed about the Bucks Zones is not about volume,it's that my Zone 5 is often garbled yet Middletown and Falls are much more clear, base and mobile.....here's another strange thing: in the car I can hear "Countywide" yet at home not a peep on that channel....if they are all simulcast from the same towers shouldn't I hear Countywide? (I hear Doylestown and other far away in miles places.....) - and your cell phone analogy is great.....very often to this day cell phone calls are not great compared to the rotary days! Maybe I have to get used to the fact that digital trunked is always gonna have delays and echos and good days (transmissions) and bad ones.......when you have an opportunity please recommend a mag mount car antenna with a strong nod toward our 700mhz system....gonna buy you a java on Radcliffe Street soon as this plague clears......thanks!

So that is indeed a mystery, because of the type of system it is... It has one site called simulcast with approximately 25 Towers that simultaneously transmit exactly what your radio is calling for. So what that mean this is it doesn't matter how far away the zone is from your radio you're going to pick up Hilltown as well as you pick up Bristol. Countywide channel or the sheriff's Channel should come in fine just like any other talk group in the system that is not encrypted.

As far as a mobile antenna.... I personally I do not recommend any magnetic mount but I do understand not everybody can drill a hole even though that is the optimal thing to do. If you can't drill a hole a lip mount on your trunk will work. For me personally there is only one antenna, it's sort of like a professional photographer only carries one brand camera bag, a Domke... The antenna I recommend and have been using for decades is a Larsen tri-band. There are two versions, a cheaper one with the nmo mount and the new version that I have that has a heavy duty nmo mount and a spring but it is the same exact tri-band antenna. You can get the nmo mount in a magnetic, lip mount or just drill a hole for the disc.

You could always get a 3.5 -inch quarter wave whip if all you are ever going to listen to is the 700 megahertz system but I recommend the Larson tri-band because you never know when you might branch out and start to listen to UHF, VHF and or other conventional channels.

 

[joeyperillo]

Thanks, Bob - I'm off to Census hell now - wanted to say this: I will opt for a magnet mount because I alternate between two cars......I found the brand you mentioned with the mount on Amazon - please let me know if you have any other recommended source.......grazie.....

 

[trentbob]

The antenna Farm and Scanner Master sell mobile antennas and mounts but I'm sure Amazon is just fine.

 

[joeyperillo]

Bob - this may or may not surprise you but.....this Bucks PD simulcast system is so strong I tried something, with wide invert filter I used a stubby racing antenna on the back of the radio sitting on the car seat - excellent clear reception of Middletown, Falls, Newtown and Central and Countywide.....amazing.....never heard it so clear, at home too - now I'm worried that if I get a multi-band external stick it will overload the front end - thoughts?