So, is the BKR9000 really vapourware?

[sefrischling]

Isn't that basically a nationwide issue? In Colorado we have a Statewide system with numerous sites that use 700, although most are 800. I'm guessing most states are the same. As I recall the new NM system is primarily if not exclusively 700. I don't see why BK wouldn't already have that taken care of. 7/800 trunked systems aren't exactly brand new lol ......

It may be a nationwide issue, but at the moment, I am just focused on the realm in which I need to work and find new all band radios. I am well into the grant process and as much as BK wants to make the sales, and I'd like to explore the radios, I can't test or explore a radio that the state says it will not allow on their network. If I can't go on the state network, it is just an expensive brick.

 

[Echo4Thirty]

I can't even explore the BKR9000 after all these years of waiting to see if it was going to exist and be viable. There apparently remains an issue with FCC certification in the 700mhz band. Additionally, the radio remains unauthorized for use on The State of Connecticut Land Mobile Radio Network (CLMRN) ... ugh !!

Same here on several major systems in TX.

 

[rsmith7799]

I SAW IT, HELD IT….. IT IS FOR REAL. Like I had any doubts from BK! I’ll download photos when I get to my computer

 

[gtaman]

I SAW IT, HELD IT….. IT IS FOR REAL. Like I had any doubts from BK! I’ll download photos when I get to my computer

We need it. How’s the display? Disappointed that it’s smaller thank the BKR5000. Hopefully the resolution is the same.

 

[Echo4Thirty]

I want to like the radio, I really do. Its just going to be hard to sell on the networks we service. We are getting pushback on several issues that have been raised in the threads, including pricing compared to the competitors (Namely EFJ/Kenwood). The fireground folks are mostly carrying APX for their day to day thing, so they are indicating they dont need another multiband and would probably just go with the single band 5000 when their KNG/DPH radios die off.

 

[sefrischling]

Just heard from the State of Connecticut's DESPP Division of Statewide Emergency Telecommunications that the BK radios remain not approved for use on The State's CLMRN system. As my Town's Fire Service is moving forward in transitioning from VHF to the State System, likely with a simulcast, I really want to give the BKR9000 a shot, I have been looking into it for years, but I can't even test it, as The State won't even allow it on the network.

 

[rsmith7799]

We need it. How’s the display? Disappointed that it’s smaller thank the BKR5000. Hopefully the resolution is the same.

The display is nice, it is smaller than the BKR5000. The sides are a non-stick surface, the PTT is on the other side from ALL other BK radios, microphones on both sides. About the same size as the 5000.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

The display is nice, it is smaller than the BKR5000. The sides are a non-stick surface, the PTT is on the other side from ALL other BK radios, microphones on both sides. About the same size as the 5000.

Are the dual microphones for use with active noise cancellation similarly to how the APX radios work?

 

[sefrischling]

To clarify my statement yesterday, the 1st of December 2022, in post #146

… following a conversation with DESPP regarding approved radios for the CLMRN system, the agency is awaiting further clarification on the BKR9000 radios.


My statement was unclear that following speaking with DESPP I spoke with another entity, that is a dealer who provides radios that are utilized on the CLMRN system, who informed me that the radios cannot presently be tested on the system, or used on the system, due to an ongoing issue related to the FCC Part 90 certification of the 700mhz portion of the radio.

My apologies for not being as clear as possible in my above post. I do hope the radio gets cleared by the FCC so there is yet another option to test out and see what is going to work.

 

[mmckenna]

Has anyone figured out if the lack of Part 90 certification on 700MHz is due to an oversight, or is it an issue with the radio that keeps it from passing?

I think I'd want to know that before purchasing any of these radios. If there is a hardware issue that will prevent it from passing, I'd not want to sink a bunch of money into them.

 

[Echo4Thirty]

Has anyone figured out if the lack of Part 90 certification on 700MHz is due to an oversight, or is it an issue with the radio that keeps it from passing?

I think I'd want to know that before purchasing any of these radios. If there is a hardware issue that will prevent it from passing, I'd not want to sink a bunch of money into them.

When we have inquired with BK regarding this issue, we were basically blown off and kept trying to push it off and move on. I dont think they seem to understand how important this issue is for the target market they are going after with the 9000. We have talked to several system managers that have 700 MHz frequencies on their network around the country and have yet to find one that would allow one to be even be demoed until this is resolved. I do not blame them. As the licensee, they would be the one at risk.

I am also confused as to how the FCC is allowing this device to be sold emitting RF on 700MHz without authorization.

This is a much bigger deal than they seem to want to acknowledge. The radio is literally illegal to operate in transmit mode on 700MHz and no amount of fancy salesmanship will work around this fact.

If your system is VHF/UHF or strictly 800, you are good to go.

 

[mmckenna]

I am also confused as to how the FCC is allowing this device to be sold emitting RF on 700MHz without authorization.

Maybe it's not?
Has anyone that has been able to get their mitts on one of these been able to program in any 700MHz stuff? Will it take it, or does it block it?

I'm in the market for multiband radios. These are off the list until they resolve this.

 

[Echo4Thirty]

Maybe it's not?
Has anyone that has been able to get their mitts on one of these been able to program in any 700MHz stuff? Will it take it, or does it block it?

I'm in the market for multiband radios. These are off the list until they resolve this.

Judging by their responses we have received, i would be very surprised if they TX inhibited 700 from them. Someone with the current copy of RES would have to check that. I dont think any have been sold to agencies, but its my understanding dealers are being allowed (or will be allowed) shortly to purchase their demo fleet, so I think the only ones currently in circulation may be the corporate radios.

 

[mmckenna]

That's kind of a major screwup, and lack of straightforward communications about it makes it worse.

 

[natedawg1604]

That's kind of a major screwup, and lack of straightforward communications about it makes it worse.

I have a very hard time understanding how it would even be possible to design a radio that doesn't support 700, but does support 800. I would think that anyone in the position of designing public safety radios, would be quite familiar with public safety systems around the Country.

Are the people at BK designing radios not even familiar with public safety radio systems? It seems like we already have the answer.....

 

[mmckenna]

I have a very hard time understanding how it would even be possible to design a radio that doesn't support 700, but does support 800. I would think that anyone in the position of designing public safety radios, would be quite familiar with public safety systems around the Country.

Are the people at BK designing radios not even familiar with public safety radio systems? It seems like we already have the answer.....

I'm sure they are 100% aware.
And that's the issue:

They either forgot to apply for Part 90 on 700MHz (unlikely, especially since the radio was designed to support it)
Or, they specifically didn't apply for it since they knew it wouldn't pass.

Either one of the two scenarios doesn't bode well. It's a major red flag. I'd have a hard time justifying purchasing any of those until the product is fully proven in the field. No way I'd want to be an early adopter. That sounds like a major headache in the making, and maybe an orphaned product line in the not too distant future.

This product has been on the roadmap for many years now. I was looking at it back at IWCE in 2018. They've been slow in getting this to market, meantime parts of their product line are faltering. Sounds like they are making a Hail Mary pass to try and get a piece of the pie that Kenwood/EFJ, Tait, Harris and Motorola already have a bite out of.

Industry competition has really ramped up, and BK seems like they are trying to run in a race that most others have already completed. They may finish the race, but no way they'll place this late in the game.

 

[Echo4Thirty]

Sounds like they are making a Hail Mary pass to try and get a piece of the pie that Kenwood/EFJ, Tait, Harris and Motorola already have a bite out of.

Industry competition has really ramped up, and BK seems like they are trying to run in a race that most others have already completed. They may finish the race, but no way they'll place this late in the game.

Or a hail mary pass to try to stay in business or be relevant. Sure seems to be an all eggs in the basket situation. They had the lock on wildland fire radios and somehow managed to screw the pooch on that one, now they want to throw their hat in to the extremely competitive multiband trunked market and aren't making a great run there. The KNG radio was horrible from a quality standard for public safety usage and SEVERAL large agencies who had them fielded on TXWARN returned them back to the radio shop in exchange for other brands. Then they were issued to public works customers who also returned them. Now they are dying a slow death as cache radios, but they dont ever leave the cache as they also have APX cache radios. The lack of a companion mobile radio in the multiband trunked space (or ANY mobile since the KNG days) is confusing as well.

Perhaps the 5000 was the answer to recapture wildland fire, but considering the market for multiband trunked radios, they either need to be SERIOUSLY less expensive than Motorola (and one would argue Kenwood-EFJ/Tait) or provide functionality the APX does not (Such as other protocols). I am not sure the pricing can be aggressive enough to compete with Kenwood/EFJ or even Tait. Working as sales for several brands as well as system management for several systems I can say this. They will not convince the Moto or Harris lovers to go away from the APX unless the radio is less than 50% of the cost and their sales staff/dealers are extremely aggressive in forcing purchasing departments to make the decision. This leaves the other lesser brands to compete with. In order to compete in this space you either need to compete on features or price or both. Failure to do that gets you a lot of demos by radios shops who are geeks and want to play with the cool toys, but very little purchases by agencies who will look at the sticker and see you as an off brand device. Been there, done that.

Then you have to actually be able to deliver the product you sold. While MANY others are having logistics nightmares right now, BK is actually requiring some of the agencies we communicate with the PRE-PAY before delivery of the equipment. This is not usually the way government purchasing works and has prompted the question "Are they having to have our capital in order to fund the manufacturing of the equipment??" While that may or may not be true, perception is reality. Agencies and system management folks communicate with their peers nationwide. If your stuff is good and fits the bill, they will talk it up to other systems/agencies. if they have a bad experience, well then you start at below zero walking into the next agency. Again, been there done that (I am looking at you EFJ X series lol)

 

[KevinC]

Or a hail mary pass to try to stay in business or be relevant. Sure seems to be an all eggs in the basket situation. They had the lock on wildland fire radios and somehow managed to screw the pooch on that one, now they want to throw their hat in to the extremely competitive multiband trunked market and aren't making a great run there. The KNG radio was horrible from a quality standard for public safety usage and SEVERAL large agencies who had them fielded on TXWARN returned them back to the radio shop in exchange for other brands. Then they were issued to public works customers who also returned them. Now they are dying a slow death as cache radios, but they dont ever leave the cache as they also have APX cache radios. The lack of a companion mobile radio in the multiband trunked space (or ANY mobile since the KNG days) is confusing as well.

Perhaps the 5000 was the answer to recapture wildland fire, but considering the market for multiband trunked radios, they either need to be SERIOUSLY less expensive than Motorola (and one would argue Kenwood-EFJ/Tait) or provide functionality the APX does not (Such as other protocols). I am not sure the pricing can be aggressive enough to compete with Kenwood/EFJ or even Tait. Working as sales for several brands as well as system management for several systems I can say this. They will not convince the Moto or Harris lovers to go away from the APX unless the radio is less than 50% of the cost and their sales staff/dealers are extremely aggressive in forcing purchasing departments to make the decision. This leaves the other lesser brands to compete with. In order to compete in this space you either need to compete on features or price or both. Failure to do that gets you a lot of demos by radios shops who are geeks and want to play with the cool toys, but very little purchases by agencies who will look at the sticker and see you as an off brand device. Been there, done that.

Then you have to actually be able to deliver the product you sold. While MANY others are having logistics nightmares right now, BK is actually requiring some of the agencies we communicate with the PRE-PAY before delivery of the equipment. This is not usually the way government purchasing works and has prompted the question "Are they having to have our capital in order to fund the manufacturing of the equipment??"

One Constable precinct brought all of them back and wanted their old XTS5000’s back.

 

[rsmith7799]

Are the dual microphones for use with active noise cancellation similarly to how the APX radios work?

Your correct. It really doesn't have a front or back of the radio, much like the APX

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Your correct. It really doesn't have a front or back of the radio, much like the APX

So does it suffer the same, one mic needs to be directed towards the noise source or the noise cancellation doesn't work very well issue as the APX?