Somerset County 700 P25 Expansion and Changes

[rr60]

Recently, the 700Mhz control channels are weaker on my 325p2 here in Green Brook. Did this recent update have anything to do with it? The scanner is now often trying to find a control channel.

Perhaps, but I doubt it. Greenbrook is in an area where site 4 (700) has plenty of multipath signals from Miller Lane, Johnston Dr and Somerville all converge. Site (3) 500 MHZ has a site on Rock Ave in Greenbrook. I suspect you do not have any problems with Site 3.

 

[ion_op]

Fire/EMS good on 500 MHz.

Would investing in a G4/G5 be worth it to solve the 700 MHz multipath signals problem?

 

[lynchy135]

Would investing in a G4/G5 be worth it to solve the 700 MHz multipath signals problem?

Are you having control channel issues or issues hearing talkgroups? If it's the latter there a good chance it is Simulcast Distortion. There are plenty of threads about it in the various scanner subforums. The 325p2 suffers from it with P25-P2.

 

[rr60]

Fire/EMS good on 500 MHz.

Would investing in a G4/G5 be worth it to solve the 700 MHz multipath signals problem?

Yes it most likely will, there is signal in Greenbrook but there is also plenty of path distortion. I rate my G5 as meets or exceeds all expectations. This dealer is equally as good just make sure you get the correct band split for the G5 secondary receiver 450-512.

A reminder, the G4/G5 will not scan two sites simultaneously. You need one radio on Site 3 and one on Site 4.

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[mdsxfire]

Recently, the 700Mhz control channels are weaker on my 325p2 here in Green Brook. Did this recent update have anything to do with it? The scanner is now often trying to find a control channel.

Honestly I’m surprised u could ever lock a control channel on that scanner. That was the first p25phase 2 scanner I bought and I returned it within a week because it rarely ever locked the control channel for the msex county TRS and when it did almost all traffic was garbled. Onto ur actual question I haven’t seen any difference in signal on my G5

 

[mdsxfire]

Fire/EMS good on 500 MHz.

Would investing in a G4/G5 be worth it to solve the 700 MHz multipath signals problem?

Love my unications,, have one on Somerset 500, one on Somerset 700 then the one used for my dept pager on middlesex county, this one also has NJICS and multiple other systems in it in case I want to listen to something while traveling

 

[FT752]

700 for Fire/EMS is coming along. No new frequencies are live yet, but Fire Region 3 is now passing TDMA on Site 3 with a confirmed accepted affiliation from a North Plainfield FD radio. Several other Fire/EMS talkgroups came up throughout the day, but remained FDMA. I did see denials for Warren on Fire Region 3 and Bound Brook on Fire Region 4 though.

Perhaps needing a single G4/G5 for Somerset is nearing.

 

[rr60]

The problem presently is that Site 3 & 4 are isolated. This fact coupled with all 3/4 sites are NOT colocated. The Rock Ave site is 500 MHZ only. If the system remains as configured it is a coverage disadvantage for some. I often see North Plainfield PD denied on site 3 when they need service on the West End.

A hypothetical if I may. If Fire gets moved to site 4 (700) exclusively this will suck for North Plainfield, Greenbrook and Dunellen Fire Departments. No Rock Ave 700 TRS service. Rock Ave is there for a purpose, to backfill RT22 at the base of the mountain ridge.

A 700 site should have been built on Rock Ave! Instead all kind’s other shenanigans going on.

Unless of course a new mixed site roaming configuration is permitted, then we are back to tropo outages. 😳

 

[lynchy135]

Seeing TDMA grants on site 4 with a corresponding FDMA grant on site 3 for FD Region 3 today. Also FD Region 6 joins on site 4.

 

[rr60]

Looks like we are getting closer. A system update occurred along with quite a few house keeping items including a site trunking test.

No new channels quite yet but 772.23125 previously FDMA ACC had TDMA slots added. The new set up has these as preferred first in use.

A couple weeks back an existing FDMA channel was repartitioned to include TDMA.
I just saw 50 Grants on both! Site 3 TDMA Site 4 FDMA. Perhaps this makes room for some limited transition or testing. These two new slots are carrying 60 percent of system traffic. There are plenty of talk-paths open and unused.

 

[ion_op]

Honestly I’m surprised u could ever lock a control channel on that scanner. That was the first p25phase 2 scanner I bought and I returned it within a week because it rarely ever locked the control channel for the msex county TRS and when it did almost all traffic was garbled. Onto ur actual question I haven’t seen any difference in signal on my G5

I my 325p2 used to be able to lock onto a control channel but there was regular simulcast distortion. Now the signal is marginal and the scanner is now looking for a control channel.

 

[rr60]

I looked back to the fall of 2022. The Site 4 700 simulcast cell had 6 channels and 2 of these channels were not enabled TDMA. Three channels were FDMA only, even though there is little FDMA activity. There were only 6 TDMA slots at that time.
(1) CC, (2) FDMA, (3) FDMA, (4) FDMA TDMA, (5) FDMA TDMA, (6) FDMA TDMA

The fall 2023 system update shows the same 6 channels as one year ago, however
the two FDMA only channels can now serve TDMA traffic. That is an additional 4 TDMA slots for a new total of 10 TDMA talk-paths or slots.
(1) CC, (2) FDMA TDMA 3) FDMA TDMA 4) FDMA TDMA, (5) FDMA TDMA, (6) FDMA TDMA

I would say that is found money and a it is good thing FDMA has been largely kept off the system. This also explains why we finally see (2) Fire (FR 3/6) TG’s on the 700 cell.

Only took a couple weeks after upgrade, the speed of light for government.

We are still waiting for six labels and 12 additional talk-paths. The lights remain extinguished.

@FT752

 

[rr60]

Seeing TDMA grants on site 4 with a corresponding FDMA grant on site 3 for FD Region 3 today. Also FD Region 6 joins on site 4.

So now we have TDMA grants for 33 Fire, Greenbrook on Site 4.

By my count, almost 4 years to repartition exclusive hardly used FDMA
channels to be both FDMA/TDMA capable.

 

[rr60]

The long awaited 700 MHZ channel expansion has occurred. New traffic channels up and operating on Site 4. They have been wisely provisioned as TDMA only.

How long will it be until we see Fire/EMS popping up on Site 4 ? Will Fire EMS be permitted to roam into Site 3 for better in building coverage. Police are locked out and denied on Site 3. Perhaps both will now be permitted.

How long will it be until Franklin Police and Fire arrive on Site 4. The entire Franklin System is funded for replacement of their EOL Smartzone.

Heavy talktime users, Somerset Recycling, Transportation and Roads are nicely tucked away on the NJICS. Will they stay there or will they now ruin talkpath availability for Police Fire and EMS. We shall see.

 

[richee2000]

Are any new frequencies added to the current channel lineup in the database?

 

[FT752]

How long will it be until we see Fire/EMS popping up on Site 4 ?

I do not give it long once it is finalized. Slow migration, but my bet is Fire Region 3 with North Plainfield, Green Brook, Dunellen, and our self-dispatch friends Warren and Watchung will be first considering that they got the first pick during the limited trial, and are the readiest region of the county for 700.

How long will it be until Franklin Police and Fire arrive on Site 4. The entire Franklin System is funded for replacement of their EOL Smartzone.

Who knows? I had intel that it was coming this month. Is Mother M holding up the line again?

Heavy talktime users, Somerset Recycling, Transportation and Roads are nicely tucked away on the NJICS. Will they stay there or will they now ruin talkpath availability for Police Fire and EMS. We shall see.

Yes, they are staying on NJICS. They're on there for a reason, and it is not to save talk paths for others.

 

[richee2000]

Do you see a possibility of Warren police and watchung police now going over to county?

 

[FT752]

Do you see a possibility of Warren police and watchung police now going over to county?

Warren, potentially considering their ongoing issues with tropo on PD's 500 pairs that forces them to go use the EMS frequency in the lesser affected 470s during bad breaks. Using HT1250s amid all of this is not doing them many favors, plus their fun chasing people to beyond the range of their repeaters. You could have a different take for all I know. Watchung, on the other hand, I think not. As long as they can call Warren on Public Safety, they'll be fine. I have not seen any performance loss that forces them to vacate. The other consideration is dispatch staff- spoiler: more stable than Bound Brook.

Do you know if Warren and Watchung PD have UHF or 700 trunked mobiles in their dispatch centers? If UHF, that can explain why Watchung is not getting Public Safety clear and constantly asks SCC to call their headquarters.

 

[rr60]

Do you see a possibility of Warren police and watchung police now going over to county?

My .02, no and no.

Warren has 8 remote receiver sites to get 80 percent portable coverage from the repeater that is up on the TV tower. The Somerset TRS does not come close. Warren has and continues to invest in infrastructure improvement. A frequency swap perhaps.
That is pure conjecture.

Watchung does not get PS clear because the PD is surrounded by rocks. There is no path. Of course other options exist but heck, it works most of the time. Wathung has 7 remote receivers to get coverage. Somerset TRS can’t get close.

Watchung and Warren have plenty of TRS equipment, they just won’t drink the Cool-Aid.

Kevin up County has, he will get three sites for (1) town.

I believe the FCC late this summer has halted expansion of DTV near many metropolitan centers. Much damage has been done, but CH 14. & 15 may have
some protection now. Of course many conventional pairs are being sat on because of those leaving for TRS’s.

There has not been transparency in Somerset and that impacts decisions considerably.

The DB sub has been made for Somerset.

 

[rr60]

This weeks (9/11/23) annual FCC notice. Reporting 5 new 700 channels on the air by 2023 and new sites by 2025. Incredible 10 years has passed since the first 700 MHZ rollout. The label maker must be getting warmed up. We will we then see the Fire/EMS transition

I would be remiss if it went without mention. Kudo’s to the label makers!

It is real nice to see money finally being spent. If it is collected, it must be spent.
All of it!