Somerset Site 4 700 MHZ

[rr60]

Heads up Somerset County Site 4 listeners.

Site 4 700MHZ has had a good run using 774.40625 as the primary CC for many years. That may be coming to an end this spring as the tropo season begins.

Salem County is rolling out its new system and is presently using the same frequency as Somerset for its primary CC.

Dozens of times a year 700 MHZ systems from South Jersey (and further) propagate into Somerset. As a result, if these systems stay configured as they are, I expect the CC to start rolling to alternate frequencies.

You may want to check that you have the alternates in your equipment.

 

[FT752]

That's not such a bad thing. Gives the other control channels a chance to get their rotation and release some strain on 774.40625. Now if the licensure mirrored Somerset almost all the way, then it's a big problem. It's 3 extra frequencies; this isn't a Harris system like Middlesex where you have to account for 16+ control channel options.

 

[DBR_M12]

Heads up Somerset County Site 4 listeners.

Site 4 700MHZ has had a good run using 774.40625 as the primary CC for many years. That may be coming to an end this spring as the tropo season begins.

Salem County is rolling out its new system and is presently using the same frequency as Somerset for its primary CC.

Dozens of times a year 700 MHZ systems from South Jersey (and further) propagate into Somerset. As a result, if these systems stay configured as they are, I expect the CC to start rolling to alternate frequencies.

You may want to check that you have the alternates in your equipment.

That would take manual intervention, no? The tropo on site 3 is on the input side also so the system would see it, right?

 

[rr60]

I believe the site controller (or zone controller) continuously monitors the health and performance of the primary control channel, no manual intervention needed unless it was set up differently. It monitors several parameters and even logs and reports.

When it detects degradation or failure beyond acceptable thresholds, it can automatically switched to an alternate control channel if setup to do so.

 

[GTR8000]

Let's be clear about this...the system is only monitoring the input frequencies (799-805), not the output frequencies (769-775).

If 774.40625 were blasting into Somerset from Salem or anywhere else due to propagation, the system would have zero awareness of such, and therefore would not roll control channels based on that condition. Something would have to be hosing up the input in order for the system to roll control channels based on real or perceived interference.

T-Band is a different animal, because the propagation is from DTV stations that occupy the full 6 MHz of bandwidth per block, which includes the repeater inputs for LMR systems. So it's not the fact that the outputs are getting clogged up due to propagation, but the fact that the inputs are as well, which the systems are actively monitoring.

 

[rr60]

Interesting, so then by the luck of the draw Salem picked the same frequency as Somerset. I guess nobody plugged into an antenna and took a look. There would be no reason to have significant activity on the input of a control channel, so the two transmitters will just beat together when the band opens. Hmmm.

The southernmost Somerset site has pretty good coverage south.

 

[GTR8000]

Is this an actual issue, or just the assumption/perception that there will be an issue?

Keep in mind that 700/800 MHz frequencies aren't chosen at random, rather they are strictly coordinated by the Regional Planning Committees (RPC's). In this case, Somerset is covered by Region 8, Salem by Region 28. Frequency applications are first submitted to the RPC before anything sees the day of light as far as FCC licensing. The application is thoroughly reviewed by the home RPC first, then sent to all neighboring RPC's for coordination. If Region 8 and 28 thought this would be a big issue, they would've have signed off before allowing the stations and frequencies to be licensed.

Also keep in mind that all of these systems are using simulcast cells, which do a pretty good job at saturating the intended coverage area with a strong signal. That alone would drown out 98% of any co-channel propagation from another system many miles away. The subscribers will also do a good job at rejecting co-channel interference that doesn't have a matching NAC.

Oh and as for the selection of 774.40625 as the most preferred control channel for each system, that's just coincidence. Generally speaking, the highest licensed frequency is used as the control channel on 700 MHz systems, and guess which frequency happens to be the highest licensed in each county?

 

[rr60]

Presumption. Great intel, thanks for scratching that itch! We shall see what if anything develops.

 

[GTR8000]

I just want to be clear in saying that I'm not suggesting that co-channel interference can't and doesn't happen, it certainly can and does, especially during periods of enhanced propagation. Hell, even adjacent channel interference can pop up from time to time. The issue on 700/800 is much less troublesome as it would be on T-Band due to the "whole chunk of 6 MHz" issue prevalent with the latter that wipes out the inputs, which is just downright nasty.

On a somewhat related note, one smart thing that was done ages ago was to group the 700 and 800 MHz inputs together @ 799-815 MHz (+30 for 700, -45 for 800). This ensures that none of the high power repeaters are right up against the low power inputs of the other band. Perhaps not entirely necessary, but good practice nonetheless. It also allows for easier band pass filtering when you only have to worry about allowing 16 MHz worth of contiguous spectrum to pass through to the receivers.

 

[DBR_M12]

Let's be clear about this...the system is only monitoring the input frequencies (799-805), not the output frequencies (769-775).

If 774.40625 were blasting into Somerset from Salem or anywhere else due to propagation, the system would have zero awareness of such, and therefore would not roll control channels based on that condition. Something would have to be hosing up the input in order for the system to roll control channels based on real or perceived interference.

T-Band is a different animal, because the propagation is from DTV stations that occupy the full 6 MHz of bandwidth per block, which includes the repeater inputs for LMR systems. So it's not the fact that the outputs are getting clogged up due to propagation, but the fact that the inputs are as well, which the systems are actively monitoring.

Thanks for clearing that up and getting the right info out there.

 

[rr60]

Do we have yet another new site in Bernardsville turned up?
A notice of construction for Site 2 on license WQXY990 has been filed.

WASHINGTON CORNER RD
BERNARDSVILLE, NJ SOMERSET County

Last I looked not long ago, low band still chugging along and UT shows nothing but affiliations on the TAC TG.

I won‘t be up that way for a bit yet.

 

[SomersetGuy99]

Does anyone happen to know when the county plans on switching all the public safety departments over to 700?

 

[rr60]

I suspect there is no clean answer to your question. Public Safety.
PD’s, all but (2).

It is readily apparent the County has a process for Fire & EMS to gain access to Site 4, in fact several departments can been seen on S4 by affiliation and grants presently. Most if not all S3 TG are now ported over to S4.

The County has little control of how the many Fire and EMS providers provision
700 MHZ capabilities. In fact the first department on S4 several years ago still has a radio or two on S3 500MHZ.

The only thing they might do is publish a date for a hard shutdown. I have heard
nothing of that yet.

How is your APX running with NAS? I hear persistent rumors of successful stun/kills.
16 messages in 10 years. Interesting.

 

[SomersetGuy99]

I’m actually using a Unication. And I don’t know why you brought any of that into this. I asked a question about the county system nothing about NAS. And as far as my messages go, yeah I don’t talk on here much. I read, I learn. I’ll fully admit that I don’t know enough to be talking on here all the time. But thank you.

 

[rr60]

My Unication has a Zone for S3 that I rarely use anymore, perhaps only Franklin Fire.

The Zone for Somerset S4 is a mix of things. Franklin does not appear there (S4)

The only change recently I needed to add on G5 was the addition of Franklin Site 8 to Somerset TRS.That is in the RR database. G5 now has its own Zone for S8.

Regards, your welcome.

 

[SomersetGuy99]

Yes I saw that about Franklin, I haven't added them yet. The only thing I really hate about the Unication in Somerset county is the fact that I can’t monitor both the analog paging channel and P25 channels at the same time. To your knowledge is the analog paging channel simulcasted onto p25 anywhere?

 

[rr60]

None that I am aware of and no rumors heard either. I feel the same.
The administration appears very proactive stewarding conservation
of talkpaths and I can certainly see why. Perhaps paging is viewed
as a resource hog. Other nearby TRS carries P25 paging so it
certainly is not uncommon.

 

[FT752]

It's a matter of local politics and money. Many of the big fire fish were able to secure new stuff, but the small-town agencies and their first aid/rescue squads are having a harder time. The public safety operations around the area, on top of some legacy county-licensed resources in UHF remaining, it pretty much bears that multi-band radios are in the scope through practice. We could get into Monday-morning quarterback semantics about this agency only needs x or that agency has to have y to justify costs, but that detracts from the point. Check back next year.

FWIW, the UHF paging transmitters provide amazing coverage in and around the county as is. P25 paging caters to a small percentage of the county who have a plethora of P25 radios for their personnel or forked the money for G4/G5 pagers to scan around. Countless Minitor V pagers are out in the wild, on top of Somerville with their USAlert Watchdogs.

 

[robbinsj2]

Some 2 or 3 weeks ago Fire Region 1 ceased multicasting on 506.9875, I wonder if that if the first step of some greater movement. It looks like 470 is out of band for most or all 506 MHz pagers so it wouldn't be a simple reprogram.

 

[FT752]

Some 2 or 3 weeks ago Fire Region 1 ceased multicasting on 506.9875, I wonder if that if the first step of some greater movement. It looks like 470 is out of band for most or all 506 MHz pagers so it wouldn't be a simple reprogram.

Oh that's interesting. I would have figured the PD Region 1 multicast would have stopped before Fire Region 1. 100% correct, it would not be a simple reprogram. Have they been taking a nasty hit with the DTV tropo too?