Baofeng Static on Baofeng 888s

[Phil-Hogan]

I'm a novice and purchased a pair of Baofeng 888s to test prior to purchasing a few additional pairs. The intended use is to use them at a special event, with some people inside and other outside.

I programmed them to FRS/GMRS frequencies using the latest version of CHIRP (updated a few days ago)and using a Baofeng cable (I also tried programming them with the 888 software, which was easy but gave me horrible results).

Trying the various tone modes I have different results:
Tone mode has bad static when the radio is idle, but it goes away when transmitting
DTCS is clear when idle but the receiving radio receives a lot of static which makes hearing voice transmissions difficult.
TSQL is clear when idle but the receiving radio receives a lot of static which makes hearing voice transmissions difficult.
None has bad static when the radio is idle, but it goes away when transmitting
Cross mode has no static on idle, but the receiving radio doesn't receive transmissions.

The radios were tested within a building and from inside a building to outside. Distances were between 25 and 300 feet, and the results didn't vary in any qualitative way.
Channels were programed with and without privacy codes, in FM and NFM, High and Low power. Nothing seemed to make enough of a difference.

I'm wondering if the building's WiFi system is interfering, but I haven't had a chance to test them away from WiFi, and the environment we will use them in will have WiFi.

I know they are cheap radios (literally $10 each), so I'm not expecting the same quality as a $300 radio, but we need low budget radios for this application. I thought these would be better than the bubble pack Cobra CXT195 FRS radios we used previously; we need greater range capability, and hoped the real world 2W would be better than the .5W of the Cobras. The Cobras do not have the symptoms that these Baofengs do. I've already spent more time on these than I'd like.

Any help and guidance on getting these programmed and functional (reducing the static to tolerable levels) would be appreciated. Is there something in the other programming fields of CHIRP I should try?

Please don't lecture me on the legalities of these radios; I've done a lot of research, and know what I'm stepping in to. All users on GMRS will be properly licensed, and in FRS we'll stick to the 2W power limit frequencies.

Thank you for your replies.

 

[chief21]

Most (all?) Baofeng radios utilize direct conversion (SDR) single-chip designs. This usually equates to good sensitivity but marginal selectivity... thereby very prone to interfering signals. Every low-cost, direct conversion radio I've owned has been plagued with interference from my PC, routers, monitors - nearly anything that can be considered a non-intentional radiator of RF. I would even agree that a nearby commercial radio station could affect these radios. They might well work better out in the country, away from any RF sources, but not so much in the urban area.

 

[Phil-Hogan]

Thank you for your response.

These will be used mostly in x-burb to rural areas, but not out in the complete open. Think farm buildings, occasional housing developments and lots of trees, along with horse farms. The event HQ will be inside a catering hall (formerly a large barn) that has WiFi.

At another event last week we used a pair of Cobra CXT195 as a test, which worked well; longest range was at least 1 mile (from inside the building to across the parking lot (in a shopping center) and later to a moving car). Yesterday I tested the Baofeng 888s and I couldn't get across the parking lot from inside the building. Static was bad, range was less than 400'.

I was hoping I had a bum pair or it was something in my settings. The attraction of the Baofengs was battery life, decent reviews (along with those of the ones branded for other companies), very low cost and lots of accessories (spare batteries, gang chargers, speaker mics, etc.). If they had worked, I could get everything I needed for <$400 for 20 radios et al.

Perhaps I need to look at 5W bubble pack FRS/GMRS radios, but these will certainly cost considerably more all in.

 

[buddrousa]

Phil Welcome to RR first and foremost you get what you pay for number 2 FRS was not designed for commercial use FRS is kind of like kids toy walkies from the 60's and 70's. If using this for some type of SECURITY this will not be your best choice. If the same place is to be used I would tell you to get a FCC Lic for a set frequency use a DIGITAL FORMAT and if used for SECURITY then turn on the basic encryption which is a much better choice than you $20 child toys (FSR).

 

[nd5y]

Older 1/2 watt Cobra (also Midland, Motorola and Uniden) FRS radios will outperform the BF-888S because the Cobra (and other brands) has a much better receiver.

 

[k9wkj]

not to mention the 888s are not legal for use in the FRS/GMRS service

 

[R8000]

Please don't lecture me on the legalities of these radios; I've done a lot of research, and know what I'm stepping in to. All users on GMRS will be properly licensed, and in FRS we'll stick to the 2W power limit frequencies.

2 watts on FRS ? FRS rules have been covered many many times over the years on here. I think you need to do some more research.

 

[nd5y]

2 watts on FRS ? FRS rules have been covered many many times over the years on here. I think you need to do some more research.

FCC rules changed in 2017.
2 watt FRS/GMRS combination radios were reclassified as FRS.
FRS is allowed up to 2 watts on the 462 MHz channels.
Part 95 certified equipment is still required.

 

[R8000]

FCC rules changed in 2017.
2 watt FRS/GMRS combination radios were reclassified as FRS.
FRS is allowed up to 2 watts on the 462 MHz channels.
Part 95 certified equipment is still required.

I hope he skips channels 8-14 in his programming.

 

[Phil-Hogan]

Thank you for all of your replies thus far.

Our use of the radios is for basic communication between volunteers, nothing that requires secure communication. We are working with a very limited budget. So yes, I originally posted that we know these are $10 radios, but we can't afford $50 radios.

No, we are not using the .5W channels 8-14 in programming. As cited by others 2W is now legal for some frequencies, and with the 2017 changes, the FCC also allows FRS/GMRS to be used for commercial applications (since people were commonly doing this anyway, and it really wasn't interfering with anything on a broad scale). Any users of 5W will have GMRS licenses.

Yes, we know that technically the 888s are not approved for FRS (removeable antennas, and that not all Baofengss are FCC certified), but if we aren't following the exact letter of the law, we are trying to at least follow the spirit. These radios are big sellers under their own brand along as by Arcshell and others. And we have no intention of using the factory programmed, Law Enforcement, EMS, or HAM frequencies.

I came here for help and guidance in resolving a problem. If the problem is that the radios are just not up to our application (as opposed to how I programmed them), alternative suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[chief21]

Any help and guidance on getting these programmed and functional (reducing the static to tolerable levels) would be appreciated.

The only other real suggestion I can offer relates to the "static" that you mention. If the static sounds like a continuous "rushing" sound, you may not have set the noise squelch properly (or at all). If the static sounds more like a staccato or on-again/ off-again sound, this is likely related to some type of local interference, the quality of the receivers (as discussed earlier), or some combination of these two. Depending on the source, these static noises should be able to be controlled (at least during receive) by the use of either the noise squelch setting or the use of either DTCS or TSQL so-called "privacy codes". Be aware that if privacy codes are used, each and every radio to be used MUST have matching code settings (DTCS 053 or TSQL 103.5, as examples).

 

[chief21]

Perhaps I need to look at 5W bubble pack FRS/GMRS radios, but these will certainly cost considerably more all in.

One more point... It's not always about the TX power level. A radio with a good receiver but a just-adequate transmitter is to be preferred over a radio with a more powerful transmitter but a poor receiver. Transmitter power rarely has the impact on range you might think. But if you can't hear the other radio, no communication is possible.

 

[buddrousa]

Phil at some point it would better serve you to get a FCC Lic. listed below

Color Dot/Star Itinerant and Low Power Frequencies[edit]
NOTE: All frequencies listed on this page require FCC licensing when used in the United States, except when using FCC Part 95 certified radios on MURS and FRS frequencies.

Many decades ago radio manufacturers adopted a color coding scheme so that radio users could easily identify which frequencies their equipment operated on.

Sometimes referred to as "bubble pack business band" frequencies, these are typically used by low power hand held business radios. Users might include construction site operations, schools, events, fast food drive-thru intercoms, and other miscellaneous business uses.

Many national or regional retail store chains (and many other businesses) have licenses for nationwide use of 2 watt hand held radios on the "star" frequencies (467.8500, 467.8750, 467.9000, 467.9250).

Three FRS/GMRS frequencies below are listed as "color dots". This is because in the past, businesses and other organizations could obtain GMRS licenses and some radios were sold with color coded GMRS channels for business use. Under current FCC rules, businesses are generally not eligible to hold a GMRS license. In 2017, the FCC rules were changed and FRS frequencies were combined with GMRS. Businesses can operate lower power/lower bandwidth FRS radios on frequencies shared with GMRS.

Some of the frequencies in the tables and lists below are restricted to itinerant use and some have different transmit power restrictions. There are other frequencies in the 450-470 MHz band that are restricted to low power operations in certain areas. See the links below the table and at the bottom of this page for detailed information.

 

[SteveSimpkin]

While I have not used them before, these Radioddity FS-T1 FRS 1.6W radios cost around $15 each and appear to get pretty good reviews. They include earpieces, rechargeable batteries, a charger, lanyards and belt clips. It might be worth buying a pair to test. You can always return them to Amazon if they don't meet your needs.

Amazon.com: Radioddity FS-T1 FRS Two-Way Radio Long Range License-Free Walkie Talkies NOAA, 22 Channels 154 Privacy Codes with FM, Earpiece, USB Charging, 2 Pack: Car Electronics

Buy Radioddity FS-T1 FRS Two-Way Radio Long Range License-Free Walkie Talkies NOAA, 22 Channels 154 Privacy Codes with FM, Earpiece, USB Charging, 2 Pack: Two-Way Radios - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

 

[Phil-Hogan]

The only other real suggestion I can offer relates to the "static" that you mention. If the static sounds like a continuous "rushing" sound, you may not have set the noise squelch properly (or at all). If the static sounds more like a staccato or on-again/ off-again sound, this is likely related to some type of local interference, the quality of the receivers (as discussed earlier), or some combination of these two. Depending on the source, these static noises should be able to be controlled (at least during receive) by the use of either the noise squelch setting or the use of either DTCS or TSQL so-called "privacy codes". Be aware that if privacy codes are used, each and every radio to be used MUST have matching code settings (DTCS 053 or TSQL 103.5, as examples).

This is something I considered; it is definitely more of a steady noise. Using the 888 software, it was apparent how to set the squelch level, but I don't see how to do this on CHIRP. Any guidance would be appreciated. I was using TSQL with various privacy codes on the channels I was testing with. Any other recommended other settings in CHIRP would be appreciated, as I defintely don't know what I don;t know.

 

[Phil-Hogan]

One more point... It's not always about the TX power level. A radio with a good receiver but a just-adequate transmitter is to be preferred over a radio with a more powerful transmitter but a poor receiver. Transmitter power rarely has the impact on range you might think. But if you can't hear the other radio, no communication is possible.

I'm starting to understand this (also with another poster's comment that the Cobras have better receivers than the Baofengs), but I usually don't see specs for this listed with the radios, and very well might not understand them, even if they were.

 

[Phil-Hogan]

Phil at some point it would better serve you to get a FCC Lic. listed below

Color Dot/Star Itinerant and Low Power Frequencies[edit]
NOTE: All frequencies listed on this page require FCC licensing when used in the United States, except when using FCC Part 95 certified radios on MURS and FRS frequencies.

Many decades ago radio manufacturers adopted a color coding scheme so that radio users could easily identify which frequencies their equipment operated on.

Sometimes referred to as "bubble pack business band" frequencies, these are typically used by low power hand held business radios. Users might include construction site operations, schools, events, fast food drive-thru intercoms, and other miscellaneous business uses.

Many national or regional retail store chains (and many other businesses) have licenses for nationwide use of 2 watt hand held radios on the "star" frequencies (467.8500, 467.8750, 467.9000, 467.9250).

Three FRS/GMRS frequencies below are listed as "color dots". This is because in the past, businesses and other organizations could obtain GMRS licenses and some radios were sold with color coded GMRS channels for business use. Under current FCC rules, businesses are generally not eligible to hold a GMRS license. In 2017, the FCC rules were changed and FRS frequencies were combined with GMRS. Businesses can operate lower power/lower bandwidth FRS radios on frequencies shared with GMRS.

Some of the frequencies in the tables and lists below are restricted to itinerant use and some have different transmit power restrictions. There are other frequencies in the 450-470 MHz band that are restricted to low power operations in certain areas. See the links below the table and at the bottom of this page for detailed information.

Thank you for this; I will look into it. The cost of the license and true business radios are beyond our budget for the amount of use they get, hence our intention to use the eligible FRS/GMRS frequencies. It was my understanding that MURS might not work for us, since I read it doesn't penetrate walls or go through wooded areas very well, despite having other attractive attributes. I know the inexpensive Baofeng UV-5R can operate on multiple bands (which would enable us to try multiple options, assuming the radio is decent), but it looked like it would be very complicated for first time radio users to operate.

 

[alcahuete]

If the problem is that the radios are just not up to our application (as opposed to how I programmed them), alternative suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Obviously if the radios are not working for you, they are not up to your application. You've tried them in real world testing and they didn't work.

If you can't raise your budget much more than $10, I'm not really sure what you're going to do. Radios are very much a get what you pay for proposition, and you see what $10 will get you.

Perhaps try cell phones with Zello?

 

[Phil-Hogan]

Obviously if the radios are not working for you, they are not up to your application. You've tried them in real world testing and they didn't work.

If you can't raise your budget much more than $10, I'm not really sure what you're going to do. Radios are very much a get what you pay for proposition, and you see what $10 will get you.

Perhaps try cell phones with Zello?

We have more than $10, but we don't have more than $35 each.

We tried Zello previously at a company I worked for; it worked, if we had a cell signal or WiFi. But for the event(s), we don't always have cell/WiFi, which is why we are looking at radios. Another problem is getting volunteers to load an app and test it in advance.

The Baofengs seem to have decent ratings and are sold by many different companies, so I was really surprised how bad they were when we tested them. Thus as a newbie, I was questioning whether I programed them properly, and if there were settings that might mitigate or eliminate the static.

 

[nd5y]

buddrousa was probably attempting to link to the wiki article.

Common Itinerant and Business - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com