Sticky Thread for MilAir II

[SquelchKnob]

Seems you have a good plan JR. Being able to hear all the ground station traffic has got to keep that recording busy. That's why I was trying to place a note here when one of our targets is taking off - so you can home in on that time frame. However, the exercise you're going through is also going to bring you up to speed in a hurry on the Pax activity so you can become our resident expert on all the gibberish that emanates out of that facility. You're the only one in a location able to do it that posts to this forum. We've had others that lived down that way - one that was very good at deciphering Pax activity but he just disappeared one day - and a couple of others but they weren't into MilAir so weren't in a position to help us. I've got a couple other interests among the aircraft there but we'll leave those for sometime in the future. I'm sure with your background from the west coast and with the Edwards test facility activity, you've got your own priorities you're trying to get a handle on.

LOL. PRIORITIES!!!. HA!!!!!!. I am just trying to figure this place out. I am sure I'll will stumble on some stuff that interest me in the future but I need to get a better grip on how aircraft move around first. But I have no specific focus other than basic familiarity with the area with emphasis on PAX. Other than that your project is of primary interest to me as I suspect there is much to learn simply by focusing on one aspect as I have been trying to gear myself up to do.

Keep putting up anything you come accross for VQ-4. Everything will help. On my end the big issue is trying to figure out the pertinent freqs to record on. With my being close to PAX and them Simulcasting on so many APP/DEP freqs if I record too many freqs then I end up with 2,000 'snippets' from transmissions. That is why I had a PCR-1000 simply working the 121.0/250.3 which is the listed DEP CNTRL freqs I got off the list from Base Ops. Although from what I can tell the aircraft apear to use any number of of APP freqs for DEP purposes.

I still have a few PCs/Scanners to get squared away and with each addition I will be putting thought into how I might best work it into this effort. I have another 8 scanners with which to play with that I will be able to record on other than the UBC780XLTs previously mentioned. Picked up a few new souncards and will have to get those installed then I will be able to bring up four more to record with.

As far as any more of your interests, if they are PAX related please post or PM me. Whatever. They might be something I can start looking at along with what I am doing.

 

[Mark]

I guess local CAP will be ending today but heard SONIC going to Tanker this am.
Looks like CAP will be moving to Texas today as last night had
REACH 490T C-5B 84-0062 arrive Dover alpha 2 and
REACH 492T C-17 04-4137 arrive Andrews 0320 local.
Need some USAF Heavies to move all that security staff...

Mark


TFR Notam:
Location : Fort Worth Center, Crawford, Texas
Beginning Date and Time : December 26, 2007 at 1740 UTC
Ending Date and Time : January 01, 2008 at 1830 UTC
Reason for NOTAM : Temporary flight restrictions for VIP (Very
Important Person) Movement Type : VIP

 

[TinEar]

I guess local CAP will be ending today but heard SONIC going to Tanker this am.
Looks like CAP will be moving to Texas today as last night had
REACH 490T C-5B 84-0062 arrive Dover alpha 2 and
REACH 492T C-17 04-4137 arrive Andrews 0320 local.
Need some USAF Heavies to move all that security staff...

That REACH 490T was the guy we had yesterday morning going from Dover to Andrews as REACH 4062. After loading, he departed Andrews around 1440 as REACH 490T. I presume he went to Texas and then returned to Dover last night when you caught him arriving back home.

REACH 492T departed McGuire for the short flight to Andrews around 0230. He loaded up and departed to the west about 0630 this morning. Unfortunately, I don't have anyone in my informal network of monitors I talk to that lives in the Fort Worth-Dallas area to confirm arrival times on that end.
*******************************************************
NOTE: Had an E-6B (164410, VQ-4) depart Pax shortly after 0800 this morning
*******************************************************

Guard Dog CAP: HUNTRESS released SONIC 53/54 and TANKER 25 to RTB at 0909 this morning - a bit earlier than scheduled. The players returned to Langley and Tinker Air Force Bases. And so ends another CAP. The baton is passed to Crawford TX.
Air Force 1 (VC-25A, 82-8000, 1st AS Andrews) departed Andrews about 0945.

0954: BRAVE 61 and 62 (F-16s, DC-ANG Andrews) scramble...w/TRACON for climbout...348.725
0954: BRAVE 61/62 on HUNTRESS control freq...just checking fuel remainders....139.7 (Using it as an interflight freq for now)
0957: BRAVE 61/62 handed off from TRACON to Patuxent Approach...250.3
0959: BRAVE 61 requesting R-4005, surface to 25,000 feet...250.3
0959: VENUS 50 (C-20C, 85-0050, 99th AS Andrews) to VENUS Control reporting takeoff time as 1456Z...142.75

1000: BRAVE 61 flight handed to Patuxent BayWatch where they check in all over again...entering R-4006 for 25 minutes of playtime...cancel IFR...base will be 5,000 feet...270.8
That was followed by very weak transmissions as they operated down low over the next dozen minutes or so.
1007: DC 94 (DECEE 94, KC-135R, 57-1479, 756th ARS AFRC Andrews) to LIBERATOR to report off the ground at 1505Z...378.1
1015: Coast Guard Helo 6517 (HH-65B, 6517, CGAS San Francisco) calling Andrews Tower...wants to pick up Route 3 clockwise direction...118.4 (San Fran is what my Coast Guard list shows for this guy but no telling where he's really stationed now.)
1018: BRAVE 61 to a U/I ground station saying they were airborne at 1552Z...139.7
1019: BRAVE flight probably with HUNTRESS now...get a TOI to shadow at BRA 125/61/3500...139.7
1020: EVAC 8113 (KC-135R, 58-0113, 97th AMW Altus) to Andrews CP to report airborne from ADW at 1517Z....378.1 (Based on tail, call should be EVAC 80113 - he dropped the zero)
1020: BRAVE 61 to Pax to request tunnel back to Andrews at 4,000 feet...270.8
1025: BRAVE 61 reports they'll be RTB in about 5 minutes...139.7
1026: BRAVE 61/62 doing a simulated DRAGNET AWACS directed intercept...139.7
1034: BRAVEs done...one will return and the other will hold at Nottingham as usual...139.7
1036: BRAVE 61 signs off with Patuxent and is handed to TRACON...270.8
1036: BRAVE 61 calls Potomac TRACON...no joy, x2...335.5
1037: BRAVE 61 gets TRACON....61 wants a separate squawk for 62 who will hold at Nottingham for about 15 minutes...gets 4332 for him...335.5
1039: BRAVE 61 works w/CAPITOL on scramble freq...139.7
1040: BRAVE 62 requesting 2,000 feet...335.5
1040: BRAVE 61 to Andrews Tower...8 miles to the south for visual straight in to runway 1R....gear down, cleared to land...349.0
1053: BRAVE 62 checks with 61 on the ground at Andrews to learn his status before beginning his own approach to the field...139.7
1054: BRAVE 62 to Potomac to report he's ready to RTB to Andrews...335.5
1055: BRAVE 62 to Andrews Tower...10 miles out for straight in approach to runway 1R...349.0
1057: BRAVE 62 to ADW Twr to report 5 miles final, gear down for runway 1R...349.0 (And we'll call this mission done)

1128: VENUS 50 (ID above) to VENUS Control saying he'll be in the blocks at 1715Z...142.75

 

[TinEar]

1500: E-6B 164410 to Maintenance on 310.15 saying he's about 40 out (he's just east of Gordonsville as I type)...says he'll need the "55 hour and normal post-flight stuff."...310.15
He was down south a couple of hours ago and then heard over northern Kentucky about an hour ago. He was explaining to the ground crew that he knows they weren't expecting him back.
JR, there's someone on 120.05 around 1510 working approach but I can't pull out the ID. It might be our E-6 when you get around to checking the recording for that time frame.

 

[SquelchKnob]

1500: E-6B 164410 to Maintenance on 310.15 saying he's about 40 out (he's just east of Gordonsville as I type)...says he'll need the "55 hour and normal post-flight stuff."...310.15
He was down south a couple of hours ago and then heard over northern Kentucky about an hour ago. He was explaining to the ground crew that he knows they weren't expecting him back.
JR, there's someone on 120.05 around 1510 working approach but I can't pull out the ID. It might be our E-6 when you get around to checking the recording for that time frame.

Crap. My whole setup is still pretty tore apart here. That was on the agenda for this evening. The only stuff I have recording are ZDC and PCT

1527: LOL. Well I just saw them fly right over my house. My setup is pretty handicaped right now Tin. I doubt I will be back up in respectable operation till after this weekend.

 

[TinEar]

Crap. My whole setup is still pretty tore apart here. That was on the agenda for this evening. The only stuff I have recording are ZDC and PCT

Not a problem. We'll get him another time. If you have ZDC Irons/Azalea/Gordonsville recording the VHF side, if you hear a callword/two digit suffix combination, it's probably him since he came from the west on the same course we usually hear them departing. And there's almost nothing else military in the air.

1524: 164410 is still working the pattern at Pax....just heard him again...310.15 (Guess that's what he meant when he said "40 out" -- minutes, not miles. Figures...since his position was well over 40 miles out at the time and yet 40 minutes didn't seem realistic either. That didn't account for pattern work.)

 

[trainman111]

Alan, it's going to be up to you and JR to monitor ZDC Gordonsville. I get horrible noise on that frequency that never seems to go away, so I have it locked it. I'm currently scanning just ZDC Irons, ZDC Azalea, and 310.15. If we can figure out whether they talk to Potomac or not, I'll monitor them too.

 

[TinEar]

Alan, it's going to be up to you and JR to monitor ZDC Gordonsville. I get horrible noise on that frequency that never seems to go away, so I have it locked it. I'm currently scanning just ZDC Irons, ZDC Azalea, and 310.15. If we can figure out whether they talk to Potomac or not, I'll monitor them too.

Okay Nick...Irons/Azalea are the two best bets anyway other than maybe at night when they consolidate freqs. Were you able to hear those transmissions I logged above on 310.15? During the first transmission at 1500, he was still up about FL 200 and probably 10 miles or so east of Gordonsville but beginning his descent for Pax. (I placed him 32.5 nautical miles northwest of Richmond at that point)

 

[SquelchKnob]

Not a problem. We'll get him another time. If you have ZDC Irons/Azalea/Gordonsville recording the VHF side, if you hear a callword/two digit suffix combination, it's probably him since he came from the west on the same course we usually hear them departing. And there's almost nothing else military in the air.

1524: 164410 is still working the pattern at Pax....just heard him again...310.15 (Guess that's what he meant when he said "40 out" -- minutes, not miles. Figures...since his position was well over 40 miles out at the time and yet 40 minutes didn't seem realistic either. That didn't account for pattern work.)

Guess I need to take a step back and redo some freq lists. I am used to going off of the IFR Supp so I took my current ZDC list from there.

Question. In the interest of saving time. Is the "Washington (ZDC) Air Route Traffic Control Center (ARTCC)" freqs on this webpage accurate? http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?aid=2247

 

[TinEar]

Guess I need to take a step back and redo some freq lists. I am used to going off of the IFR Supp so I took my current ZDC list from there.

Question. In the interest of saving time. Is the "Washington (ZDC) Air Route Traffic Control Center (ARTCC)" freqs on this webpage accurate? http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?aid=2247

Yes, but take them from the lower of the two lists there. The top one is the "official" FAA-ATA-100 list that is seriously out of date even though recently published. The bottom list is the one our members input and has been kept accurate.

 

[SquelchKnob]

Yes, but take them from the lower of the two lists there. The top one is the "official" FAA-ATA-100 list that is seriously out of date even though recently published. The bottom list is the one our members input and has been kept accurate.

Ok I just sucked both of them onto my software and am currently sweetening them up for scanning. Should be in the scanner in an hour or so. I went ahead and made scan groups out of both lists on that page. Once done I will compare to the latest IFR Supp.

We just got in all the latest flight pubs at work. I'll get a few Sector Maps tomorrow.

Oh and BTW. Are there any WASH CTR freqs we know of that are not on those lists????

Also. Based on your experience which of the ZDC VHFs should I keep unlocked for this VQ-4 project?

 

[TinEar]

Ok I just sucked both of them onto my software and am currently sweetening them up for scanning. Should be in the scanner in an hour or so. I went ahead and made scan groups out of both lists on that page. Once done I will compare to the latest IFR Supp.

We just got in all the latest flight pubs at work. I'll get a few Sector Maps tomorrow.

Oh and BTW. Are there any WASH CTR freqs we know of that are not on those lists????

Unless something has changed radically in the newest IFR Supplement, the ARTCC freqs are wrong in there too since they are pulled from the ATA-100 document.
Skyking, Skyking, I say again...use the bottom list in the database here that you referenced above.

It's a long story about how the FAA pulls the info for those documents. One of the bottom lines is that anything that was changed before November 2006, is more than likely wrong in the IFR Sup. Beginning November of that year, they created an entirely new system of publishing and presenting freq changes and anything else that changes within the flight structure of the U.S. After that date, the changes published in their daily files seem to be picked up by all other FAA documents. Unfortunately, many ZDC freq changes took place in 2005/2006 that have never been picked up in the official FAA documents.

 

[trainman111]

Also. Based on your experience which of the ZDC VHFs should I keep unlocked for this VQ-4 project?

Keep an eye on ZDC Azalea, Gordonsville, and Irons. Those will be the most likely places that we will find them.

Were you able to hear those transmissions I logged above on 310.15?

No I didn't catch them. I was at the bank when that occured and unfortunately I can't record due to a feed I'm running. (We'll see how long that lasts...)

 

[BM82557]

I posted this on 12/25

SONIC 41 attempted his avionics restart at 0603, at 0606 he was back to HUNTRESS on 260.9 with "unable for avionics restart if you're having a hard time seeing me"

Going back through it again I remembered that I heard the SONIC that had the right generator failure in the Thanksgiving cap also mention that he was concerned about being seen. Sounds like that if the F-22 has an electronics failure it's not very visible on ATC radar. Wonder if it has an "enhancer" (or whatever it would be called) that amplifies the radar return when it's over friendly territory?

 

[SquelchKnob]

Keep an eye on ZDC Azalea, Gordonsville, and Irons. Those will be the most likely places that we will find them.

Will do. I guess I was spoiled out at Edwards. Had a Buddy that worked in Flight Scheduling that got me all the latest and greatest. So I am not used to having to research my own ATC related stuff. That's why I had to back up here and do a full reconfigure of the shack and the radio & PCs.

BTW. I am looking into putting up a PCR-1000 under computer control. The intention is to allow you guys to be able to "TUNE" it so you can hear groundside out of PAX. Not just an audio feed of whatever it is scanning but I hope to set something up where I can give selected users full control of the radio and they can tune to a selected freq. I have the radio and PC just need the software and a bit of knowhow. If anyone has any familiarity with this I would love to hear from you.

 

[TinEar]

I posted this on 12/25



Going back through it again I remembered that I heard the SONIC that had the right generator failure in the Thanksgiving cap also mention that he was concerned about being seen. Sounds like that if the F-22 has an electronics failure it's not very visible on ATC radar. Wonder if it has an "enhancer" (or whatever it would be called) that amplifies the radar return when it's over friendly territory?

That's what the various on board transponders should be doing - allowing ground to be able to track him. So, if he loses parts of his avionics like a generator and the transponders aren't working...he becomes partially invisible.

BTW. I am looking into putting up a PCR-1000 under computer control. The intention is to allow you guys to be able to "TUNE" it so you can hear groundside out of PAX. Not just an audio feed of whatever it is scanning but I hope to set something up where I can give selected users full control of the radio and they can tune to a selected freq. I have the radio and PC just need the software and a bit of knowhow. If anyone has any familiarity with this I would love to hear from you.

Wow! That would be fantastic. I have no knowledge at all of the programming necessary to do that but would love to see something like that for the local area. I know there have been others that did similar things on the net in the past in the MilAir world but mostly they quickly became overwhelmed with users that would crash the systems. So, I guess you'll need to approve and control the number of users - which you've already recognized as a necessity.

 

[SquelchKnob]

Wow! That would be fantastic. I have no knowledge at all of the programming necessary to do that but would love to see something like that for the local area. I know there have been others that did similar things on the net in the past in the MilAir world but mostly they quickly became overwhelmed with users that would crash the systems. So, I guess you'll need to approve and control the number of users.

Exactly. I wanna a be able to just allow a trusted few individuals into my own network. I don't want to put it out on the internet where anyone can find it. I have looked into feeding the audio from one of the unidens but to be honest it seems so busy down here I think users would not be able to follow anything at all, nor would they know wht freg they are listening to. I was thinking it would be most helpful to let people punch in whatever freq they want to monitor and then also have the scanner set up set up so that when there are no users actively controlling it it just defaults into a scan mode, scanning whatever I stuck into it.

I am looking at the DX Tunners website pretty hard. http://www.dxtuners.com/

I think I am going to have to email them and figure out if I can have full control of the users and still be allowed to use their software and maybe even have some tech support for the intitial setup and operation.

http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90766

Some of the other packages I see appear to be designed to actually be controlled from a website. Umm, I aint paying money for others to listen to my radios LOL

 

[trainman111]

Wow, that would be great. I know there are a couple of other people online that do that kind of thing, but there aren't any in our area (that aren't non HF). I know before you moved here there was a guy who lived just down the road from PAX and used to have a feed on Teamspeak. It was very nice to be able to listen to it, but at times it was hard to follow. One day though, he just disappeared. It will be great to be able to tune the receiever to a certain freq. and know what you're listening to. Unfortuantely, I can't really help you with program it that way, that's something I know nothing about...

 

[TinEar]

1731: DC 31 (DECEE 31, KC-135R, 57-1487, 756th ARS AFRC Andrews) to LIBERATOR (Squadron Ops) to report airborne from ADW at 25 past the hour...378.1
1749: DC 32 (DECEE 32, KC-135R, 61-0307, etc, etc) to LIBERATOR to report airborne from ADW at 48 past the hour...378.1

1809: DC 32 calls LIGHTHOUSE Control (Seymour Johnson) and asks for first six characters of message traffic...apparently gets it and says, "DC 32 copies all. Thank you sir."...311.0
1811: JEDI 42 (C-17A, 04-4136, 305th AMW McGuire) overhead the area at FL 200...ZDC VHF
1819: REACH 6168 (C-17A, 06-6168, 436th AW Dover) to Dover CP...20 minutes out, A-1, 11 pallets, 1 baggage pallet, 31 pax, 1 D/V - no assistance needed, need parking spot...349.4 (He's arriving from Europe. Last heard in the UK at 1508Z -1008 local time)
1828: E-6B, 164410, VQ-4 with Maintenance...then he's calling "88, this is 410"....mentions something about a deer sweep (however he just took off, he's not landing so I don't understand the reference)...310.15
[At 1833, he's about 25-30 miles to the northeast of Richmond]
1836: Our E-6B is with ZDC-Gordonsville...his suffix is 52 but I couldn't pick out the callword. Heard him passing through FL 274 for FL 300 and then again reporting when he reached that altitude...133.725
That makes sense that he'd be with Gordonsville since it's a high Sector and he was going to FL 300 and already over 270.
1843: Now I understand the reference to 88...another E-6B - 164388 is heading toward Pax...he talks to Maintenance and then 164410 calls him and they chat for a bit about various things including the runway at Pax being okay...310.15
1849: _____ 54 is the 164388 E-6 and he's with Pax Approach...120.05 (I heard this one briefly on ZDC-Irons a few minutes ago but wasn't sure who/what it was)
So, I'm zero for two catching the callsigns of those two guys...just a 52 and 54 suffix for them.
1850: BIRDSONG aircraft calling AROMATIC...311.0
1851: BIRDSONG (airborne) calling AROMATIC again on 311.0 (No idea on the IDs)
1852: Sounds like the same aircraft but he changed his callword (didn't get it)..."calling AROMATIC on 311"....311.0 (Might have been BEE STING)
1853: OPEC 38 (KC-10A, 87-0120, 305th AMW McGuire) calling Andrews Command Post...x2, no joy...141.55

1902: OPEC 38 calling "Dispatch"...first he used 327.6 (which is an AR freq so it was by mistake apparently) and then immediately switched to Andrews VHF PTD freq...x2 again, no joy again...139.3
1903: OPEC 38 now calling Andrews Command Post....x2, same result - nada...141.55
1905: DC 31 calling OPEC 38 on "AR Primary"....327.6 (No reply because OPEC 38 had already switched freqs)
1905: OPEC 38 to Andrews Dispatch...says he was supposed to meet up with DC 31 tonight...wants to know if they're airborne...told they are...wants to know their local return time...then says 50 minutes away from Andrews...says they were delayed and running behind so don't know if they can refuel tonight but wants them (DC 31) to get the word...372.2
1916: REACH 6165 (C-17A, 06-6165, 436th AW Dover) calling SAM Command at Andrews....20 minutes out, needs parking....378.1
1919: REACH 0467 (C-5A, 70-0467, 155th AS TN-ANG) to Dover CP...20 minutes out, A-1, need to upload 200K fuel (Wow!), and our load upload info...need parking...gets Spot Hotel..adds he has no offload...349.4
REACH 0467 called many times, gave message, got no reply and has called several more times...repeating entire msg at 1922)
1919-20: Activity on HUNTRESS freq but haven't had a chance to listen to it yet...139.7 (Didn't sound like HUNTRESS, BRAVE or BLACKJACK...listening)
Nothing further heard there.

Break time...gotta toss some chow down somewhere in here today.

 

[SquelchKnob]

OK, I made up a new scan list for ZDC from the Sector List on that webpage. Sorted the VHFs and UHFs into separate banks in a UBC780XLT. Locked out all VHFs except ZDC Azalea, Gordonsville, and Irons. All UHF freqs are unlocked. Recording all. I did go ahead and lock out Calvert 133.9/281.4. I put those into a BC-250 and have it recording all into a Laptop. That is all that scanner/laptop is doing. I figured with me being so close and hearing groundside I would never hear much on any freqs if I left those in the main ZDC Scanner.

Hopefully this should about do me for ZDC until we figure the VQ-4 thingy out. Then I'll lock out the rest of the VHFs. Way to much traffic on those to bother recording on.

Ok ZDC scanner is up and running. Unfortunately my PAX rigs are all down until I get the next PC squared away. Was going to do that tonight but got sidetracked on this ZDC thing. Hopefully will be up by tomorrow.