TetraNetMonitor UI Experimentation

[thewraith2008]

If tetra ... for you..... is dead, others in UK and Europe community who still using the plugin. Other hand, to prevent get lost within the actual argument, why bringout new release while for you tetra is dead? I get lost....... on its argument

What new release? The last one was over 12 months ago (29th September 2021).

About, is the "SDS bug" in TTT when both share the same source code? The SDS bug is solved somewhere in 2020 or 2021, correct me if wrong.

TNM does not share source. Bug not solved, your wrong.

In that period you send me a BETA to test, do you remember when it whas or in 2019? Within 1 week we send many, many, many test files vise versa. Or did i solve it with TSSDR, i dont know, i lost the time.

I leave it, rest the case, you won.

Not sure what that random code snippet is supposed to demonstrate but it's not relevant to TNM.
If you have source from some other TETRA project, then go and develop it to do what you want.

 

[hamradionl]

For those reading what the hack this fuzz is all about and why listeners asking about SdS.
In the past and recently several listeners ask for better SdS functions and this request is returning in periods of time, with always end up the same.
What i see in local area (over 70 individual network stations + 2 large airports network) SdS is not often used in trunking systems but more often on simplex or semi duplex network, like taxi, city bus and city train who have moved from VHF/UHF, GSM-R and older (pager / terminal systems) to Tetra. All these users have there own network, not using trunking functionality and stay on same channel and use the same timeslot. If user go to other region, the transceiver or handheld manual switch like normal channel selector or traffic manager operator is switch or connect. Other network is switching between slots for each region like; region-1=slot1, region-2=slot2 etc to 4.
SdS messages contain vehicle or unit GPS coordinates like LRRP, TXT messaging between users, pre-programm TXT messaging services, traffic control road matrix, city bus position updates + time arrival bus stop shown on road matrix, city train matrix message board, advertisement matrix and others.
For some users who live in big city with taxi or bus or near large network, sds is useful extra for others its not

 

[tomekjkp]

I just understand thewraith2008 because if there is no tetra network in your area, there is no way to test the operation. Overall, the project can be considered closed. Well, unless he shares this project so that people who are still in contact with this network can do something

 

[polar1]

I must intervene here in the defense of thewraith2008... No one should feel attacked or blamed for developing a free tool for the entire community to use. You all should remember that the time and effort to develop these tools comes from the personal interest and enthusiasm to learn something new about these networks. Everyone who invested time during the last couple of years deserves recognition for what they did for the community to even be able to decode the entire standard. I should remind that the ETSI's TETRA air interface reference book has probably around thousand pages at this point, give or take. To read the entire thing and implement everything from demodulation, unscrambling, decoding, parsing multiple layers of SDU types, creating the UI tooling around the decoding pipeline... For me that's more than enough to play with. I went ahead and developed an additional SNDCP parser because of personal interest in my local public transport network. You must also understand that things like these are grey zone/plain illegal for some countries. As is the case for theWraith2008. That is why I have also decided not to promote or publicly distribute the version of plugin which has the feature built in. Here's just one of probably multiple cases where publicly sharing too much knowledge about TETRA has resulted in something not that good:

Hacker who reported issues Tetra Protocol gets jail sentence

A Slovenian student who reported configuration errors in the Tetra protocol used by the local Police gets a prison sentence.

securityaffairs.co

This case is quite local for me, as well. So it's one thing to share the enthusiasm and knowledge about this. But you guys must remember that TETRA is quite crucial system for many important and critical national services and that's how it's defended. So please, stop arguing about things like these.
@thewraith2008, my recommendation here would be to just strip the original code from any individual SDU decoding and leave it with baseline signal processing. Publish that as an open source repository and leave it for people to decide what they want to make out of it. If someone wants to take the responsibility of decoding the network data traffic, the base is there.

Please behave as a community with common interests and don't force the unnecessary conflicts, especially for the community-built tooling.

 

[hamradionl]

To preventing misunderstanding, only within European Union there is limited protection and only - for the TEA2 voice scrambler. Around 2016 company AOR start implementing the -- fully open Tetra ETSI standard protocol -- in there receiver hardware (DV1, DV10, 5700). AOR recently upgrade GSSI trunking functionality while using the fully open tetra protocol (more functions to come in 2023). If these hardware where not allowed to use, the governments will prohibited to sell the P25 Uniden, Whistler and Tetra AOR products in there country's, with is not the case. In my country, governments agencies use several AOR 5700D to control and monitor network traffic.

 

[Ubbe]

I read the article about the Slovenian guy and he tried to hack into the network at three different times, probably using hack-rf, and they found a fake police badge at his home and illegal recordings of his previous employer. He got suspended 15 months jail under the condition that he didn't repeat his crimes for three years. It seems to be not related to publishing the information he had, that probably anyhow can be found openly for anyone to read.

/Ubbe

 

[polar1]

I stand corrected about that article then, that's definitely a lot more material to get the guy arrested 😅. Any chance you can find the links to the articles about these details?
Anyhow, one thing still stands true, which is - parsing and possessing what is to be defined by the data owner as a private and/or proprietary data might be succeptable to law and punishable in some countries. Which might or might not also reflect on the authors of tooling which made it possible to do so.

 

[pingirona]

FYI:
There was a request to add Main carrier/MCCH switching to TNM like TTT has.
This will be a little harder to do because if the moved MCCH is outside of the RF bandwidth of the current SDR# where the MCCH is defined, then we can't just follow it because then the other MCCH may become out of scope. The move could only occur if within the RF bandwidth of he current SDR#.

To those who see this behavior, which case do you see from above description.



Latest version (v1.1.0.2) can be found in this post here: Download

In my opinion, every operator that uses TNM must know which carriers are part of each TBS and therefore must make sure to configure the bandwidth of their receiver to include all the carriers of each TBS that they are going to include in TNM. If an operator does not take that precaution, he will simply stop listening to the control channel as soon as the network has proceeded with the change.

This would be a very appreciated functionality, because now to follow 2 simultaneous TBS, you have to add 8 multimasters, one for each carrier. With the new functionality, only 2 masters (other slaves) would be able to automatically switch control channels in their configuration.

I hope I have explained myself correctly. Cheers!

 

[pingirona]

I have been reading this forum again after many months without going through here. I've seen some pretty nasty comments directed at @thewraith2008. I just wanted to publicly express my support for @thewraith2008 for the enormous work, effort and patience with the various projects that he has made freely available to us. Where I live, his work has clearly made the difference between giving up listening altogether or being hooked on it all day. THANKS A LOT!! @thewraith2008

 

[pingirona]

I have inform you, that some time TNM show a active voice call, but there is no voice .

the same happens to me
Does anyone know why it happens?

 

[pingirona]

When TNM settings has "Disable unallocated" unchecked, then calls that change slots are dropped. The system shows how they start and then go, sometimes they start in another slot, and are cut again. For the user, the call has been lost.

This does not happen if "Disable unallocated (for testing)" is enabled by checking the flag. Then the system does not lose the call and shows how the call jumps from one slot to another, but it continues to be displayed. THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE AUDIO IS NOT DISPLAYED. The call appears to be in progress, but for audio, the call has been lost.

This does not happen when the call starts and ends in the same slot.

Is this an easy problem to fix? Is it a code problem? Can it be solved by installing a specific runtime?

Thank you

 

[hamradionl]

Pingirona, Thanks

 

[thewraith2008]

When TNM settings has "Disable unallocated" unchecked, then calls that change slots are dropped. The system shows how they start and then go, sometimes they start in another slot, and are cut again. For the user, the call has been lost.

This does not happen if "Disable unallocated (for testing)" is enabled by checking the flag. Then the system does not lose the call and shows how the call jumps from one slot to another, but it continues to be displayed. THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE AUDIO IS NOT DISPLAYED. The call appears to be in progress, but for audio, the call has been lost.

This does not happen when the call starts and ends in the same slot.

Is this an easy problem to fix? Is it a code problem? Can it be solved by installing a specific runtime?

Thank you

For whatever reason, calls on TETRA are just drop with no indication (no PDUs of any kind are used).
Because no D_Release PDU is seen, the call will normally just hangs there.
It will sit there until a D_Release PDU seen probably from another (unrelated) call. (or possibly until a different usage marker seen, I forget)

The addition of detecting when slot becomes unallocated is an attempt to end the call and return to MCCH.
This may not always work and may depend on what the TS is outputting (may still be sending something that indicates it's still been allocated).

Can something be done about it, I don't know as I don't really have any interest in TTT/TMN anymore.
Maybe a sample of this occurring could help.



Latest version (v1.1.2.0) can be found in this post here: Download

 

[oz1jua]

For whatever reason, calls on TETRA are just drop with no indication (no PDUs of any kind are used).
Because no D_Release PDU is seen, the call will normally just hangs there.
It will sit there until a D_Release PDU seen probably from another (unrelated) call. (or possibly until a different usage marker seen, I forget)

The addition of detecting when slot becomes unallocated is an attempt to end the call and return to MCCH.
This may not always work and may depend on what the TS is outputting (may still be sending something that indicates it's still been allocated).

Can something be done about it, I don't know as I don't really have any interest in TTT/TMN anymore.
Maybe a sample of this occurring could help.



Latest version (v1.1.2.0) can be found in this post here: Download

Sorry to hear that you have any interest in TTT/TMN anymore. I understand why, when you have nothing to listen to.
But I and very happy with both and using both a lot of time. Many hours goes by using both TTT/TMN.
And one thing I realy like to be added in the TNM is a way to log MS Registrations like in TTT.
Today I know a lot of users that have 5 to 10 or more PC running TTT just for logging.
The same amount of logging could be run in 1 PC and spare a lot of energy and power in these Green Power Evolution...
I realy hope you consider to add this. I also think that the Sound i TNM is a bit better than in TTT.
And a small system with only about 10 base station is fine to run with TNM.....
I would realy like to se more added to TNM in the future from the TTT.

 

[thewraith2008]

I've not looked at the code for some time and I forgot where things are with it.

I know for the next month or so, I simply don't have time to look at it as work has ramped up and other life priorities are in affect.

 

[digiman1]

Has anyone here managed to pipe the audio from the TNM App to a VB Cable then into Zello?

The only way I can get Zello to stream is by sending ALL system audio, I would like to only send the TNM audio.

With TTT I am able to pipe the audio from SDR# into VB Cable, but not having any success with TNM.

Any ideas?

 

[Marco192]

Has anyone here managed to pipe the audio from the TNM App to a VB Cable then into Zello?

The only way I can get Zello to stream is by sending ALL system audio, I would like to only send the TNM audio.

With TTT I am able to pipe the audio from SDR# into VB Cable, but not having any success with TNM.

Any ideas?

Try to set the output of SDRSharp to VBCable input. I believe that should work

 

[digiman1]

Try to set the output of SDRSharp to VBCable input. I believe that should work

The last time I tried this was on Windows 10, it never worked for me, I tried on a few devices too.. I have since upgraded to Windows 11, I just assumed this was still not working.. I tried it there and it works great. Thank you.

 

[digiman1]

hey @thewraith2008 .. I have been blasting away at TNM since day one, it has been great but I have a small query and wondered if you could possibly look into, I know you are not actively developing this anymore but who knows, maybe it's a quick fix?

I have all my Control Channels set, when a call is initiated I can see in the call window the carrier that the call is taking place on by being highlighted Red, I can also see which other carriers the call is going out on but sometimes the call is on one the weaker carriers/VCs and my call seems very choppy. Would it be possible to monitor the signal of all the Carriers and TNM to select the strongest Carrier that the call is going out on?

Cheers. G

 

[thewraith2008]

Assessing the signal levels of all the BS's used for the monitored sites would be impractical (and beyond the scope) for this application.
You would probably have to dedicate a SDR just to poll all of the frequencies for their signal levels.
Then there is all the logic required to handle all this evaluation and call control.

It would be easier to just create some sort of carrier lockout for each site.
This would not be a "quick fix" to do.



Latest version (v1.1.2.0) can be found in this post here: Download