RFI-EMI-GUY
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The official "I want LSM to work properly in my scanner" thread
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kayn1n32008
ØÆSØ Say it, say 'ENCRYPTION'
Hence the use of CQPSK. It is much more tolerant to a higher delay spread than C4FM.
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This could lead to a death spiral too. When I bought mine I had never heard of LSM. I assumed it would work correctly. Many people who describe these symptoms and even mention LSM think of it as just a digital mode (C4FM) bouncing off things and accidentially creating LSM. LSM is a specific transmission that needs specific decoding. It's not incidental. It took me a month to figure this out and deduce they are selling scanners they know full well don't work correctly everywhere like customers assume. The long term problems are many. People are blaming their reception on crummy scanners and will give up on it or try another brand. The forums are FULL of people trying to get better reception. Think of all the people out there not on this forum. They are majorly disappointed. So not only will that hurt sales the companies may be anticipating fewer sales due to encryption and cost as mentioned previously. I think they are shooting themselves in the foot, they're going to give up then someone's going to come along with something new instead of trying to rework things.
You guys are really smart and have a handle on this but the public is clueless.
I would like to offer a solution for the truly dedicated scanner hobbyist. Buy a home near one of the towers of your favorite system. I'm lucky enough to work very close to one in my favorite system and I have no simulcast issues sitting at my desk all day, any scanner will do. :wink:
I'm impressed that Unication has been able to implement this for receivers that cover two limited bands and limited modes (analog FM or P25 Phase 1) for only $800 (original retail...ok, now they are about $660). How much to add the rest of the spectrum, I wonder. Oh, and all the other digital formats. Looks like they are going to charge $150 for Phase 2 (so now the $660 is back up to >$800).
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Too bad some of us hobbyists are on the road and don’t have the receiver in one position option. Luckily we have alternate ways.
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MTS2000des
5B2_BEE00 Czar
$800 retail. Remember, their product is a professional tool not a consumer toy.
Scanner customers want reliable capability of receiving LSM, which is fast becoming a dominant implementation of P-25 (especially in trunked systems), and yet none of the consumer scanners are properly designed to decode linear simulcast CQPSK, which has been part of the P-25 TIA standard for years.
Fail.
kayn1n32008
ØÆSØ Say it, say 'ENCRYPTION'
davidzimmerman
Member
i paid $660 for my G5 VHF and happy this BLOWS AWAY all scanners even my NEW TRX-2 i got last year and paying the EXTRA $150 for PHASE-2 but still works better than any scanners made today.
kayn1n32008
ØÆSØ Say it, say 'ENCRYPTION'
It also appears that consumers are willing to shell out the bucks for a good receiver as well.
Maybe if Uniden and Whistler just concentrated on analogue/DMR/NXDN and left P25 to companies that can actually build a receiver that can properly decode CQPSK, they would have better luck... seeing how those modes only need a discriminator tap...
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I'm fairly sure the simulcast problems are predominately in one band.
I'm pretty sure that scanner buyers want to scan more than just two bands.
davidzimmerman
Member
UPMan the G pagers are pagers NOT scanners BUT do scan to bad these BLOW away all scanners that are made and WHY can't scanner makers by now make then work.
If scanner manufacturers made a scanner that did 700 / 800 mhz P25 simulcasts, and that's all it did, with the ability to hold a TG, LO a TG, scan multiple systems at once, it would sell well at $1000. I would buy one and so would many others. How many people on these forums have thousands invested in scanners, antennas, multicouplers, feed line, etc.? People in the media would buy them, they would sell.
Now, throw in a "bone", like VHF or UHF like Unication does, and it would be sell even better. Forget about some of the other modes that are a relative small minority. Let's face it, P25 simulcast is the dominant reality going forward, and that's what people are screaming for.
Sure, in Phoenix for example, there are still a few old legacy VHF and UHF systems, but they are a tiny minority and being replaced with P25 systems shortly. Almost everything is going simulcast. It just is what it is.
I don't know the insider stuff that you know, but this all seems pretty logical to me.
At times. Right at the moment, I'm just monitoring 700/800. LSM. Clear decode. With a ~$70 "scanner" (microcomputer and SDR dongle). CQPSK demodulation. Taking the place of a 436hp for one of my fire and EMS feeds.
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Using my WS1080 today in the car I was reminded WHY I leave it at home tethered to a YAGI. In the car? it's really a ONE system scanner ... mostly analog only and really LOW volume/gain at that. P25 simulcast is a total crap-shoot. I'm very happy with Unication as it's all I need to stay informed .... because it WORKS. Gladly awaiting the Phase II upgrades.
I agree with UpMan...people do want to scan more than one band. You see the complaints in the Unication forums asking why a dual band G5 can’t scan both at the same time, or why people can only scan one system at a time etc.
As far as scanner manufacturers, it really comes down to recouping R&D to make it work, especially with all the bells and whistles that everyone wants besides LSM decoding.
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As far as scanner manufacturers, it really comes down to recouping R&D to make it work, especially with all the bells and whistles that everyone wants besides LSM decoding.
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I agree completely HOWEVER, I have come to the conclusion (in my feeble mind) that there should be a 7-900 MHZ P25 LSM seperate scanner. We may be entering times when two "sacnners" are necesary. Look how many people are using a scanner along with Unication. I can keep my current VHF UHF and add a newer LSM scanner.
Exactly. Economics apparently don't allow for a scanner to "do it all" right now. I'm willing to accept that for now. However, there is no logical reason that a true scanner version of the G4/5 can't be made. If I could scan multiple systems with one device, I would be happy as a freaking clam! Add UHF for my local HP still on a legacy system, and I'm a very very happy clam!
A scanner that can do the simulcast thing, plus UHF, plus VHF, including the Milair bands, etc., might just be too much to expect now, maybe ever. For me when I'm mobile / out of the house, it's mostly about the simulcast systems. As I said, the UHF would let me listen to the HP guys (and gals), and that's all repeater stuff, so I would be happy with that. For serious Milair, or airband scanning, that's why you have a serious base scanner and antenna setup...that's not handheld territory in most cases.
And it's not like I'm going to get rid of MY BCD436HP or BCD536HP, which do such an amazing array of things...they still have a place. But there is this obvious, glaring, in-your-face need for something that scans multiple simulcast systems, can hold, lockout, etc., that I think it would sell. Of course, I could be completely wrong, and maybe there is just insufficient demand for that.
@Signal - ZERO - ONLY folks I see with "complaints" in the Unication forums are those who haven't bought yet and insist on making this 1st Responder PAGER into an ALL BAND scanner. It isn't designed for that as you know. Even with that? time will tell if folks have a little patience as this may be addressed in the future. ------FROM UNICATION SITE -------------
**We have UHF and VHF systems in our area, is there a G5 dual band model that supports these two bands?
At this time, it does not. The need for a VHF/UHF model has been voiced and at this time is under evaluation for a future release.
**With the G5 can you scan between a VHF analog and P25, 700/800/VHF, Trunking system?
One can use the 8-position selector knob switch to manually switch between systems. We are looking at providing an automatic scan feature in a future software update.- end-
So for those who are complaining that this Fire -PAGER doesn't have multi-bands/systems? there's always Uniden and Whistler ... whose forums are filled with far more angry posts.
**We have UHF and VHF systems in our area, is there a G5 dual band model that supports these two bands?
At this time, it does not. The need for a VHF/UHF model has been voiced and at this time is under evaluation for a future release.
**With the G5 can you scan between a VHF analog and P25, 700/800/VHF, Trunking system?
One can use the 8-position selector knob switch to manually switch between systems. We are looking at providing an automatic scan feature in a future software update.- end-
So for those who are complaining that this Fire -PAGER doesn't have multi-bands/systems? there's always Uniden and Whistler ... whose forums are filled with far more angry posts.
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