Tram 1410

[KC2CQD]

Simple question...
Can a vertical whip be added to a Tram 1410 discone by simply removing the nut on the top and screwing, for example, a 2m threaded whip into the ground plane?

My friend and I both recently purchased BDC996P2 scanners and both radios can receive the Chautauqua County NY Public Safety system on my mag mount dually antenna on my car, but when we connect the scanners to the Tram, NOTHING even though the CC (154.7850) shows on screen.
My friend actually lives in Dunkirk, NY as does his antenna .

I'm in Evans and can receive ALL 8 TGs from the car.

IF the vertical can be added, will it help his reception.... And yes, he can receive TON of stuff from as far north as Niagara Falls.

Sorry if I'm doing this in the wrong sub

 

[mmckenna]

The top ring of elements on top of the antenna is not a ground plane. It's the radiating elements. The grounded part of the antenna is the drooping radials under the disc.

You could attach a VHF whip up there and maybe see a bit of improvement on VHF, but I'd not expect miracles.

Discones have essentially 0dB of gain, so they don't do much for you on their own. If VHF is your area of interest, a dedicated VHF antenna will easily out perform a discone.

Tell us more about your setup? Coax, mounting, what's the signal strength on the control channel, etc?

 

[KC2CQD]

The top ring of elements on top of the antenna is not a ground plane. It's the radiating elements. The grounded part of the antenna is the drooping radials under the disc.

You could attach a VHF whip up there and maybe see a bit of improvement on VHF, but I'd not expect miracles.

Discones have essentially 0dB of gain, so they don't do much for you on their own. If VHF is your area of interest, a dedicated VHF antenna will easily out perform a discone.

Tell us more about your setup? Coax, mounting, what's the signal strength on the control channel, etc?

The Dunkirk setup is basically 10' pipe bracketed to my friend's deck and the tram is just attached to the end of the pipe and locked in with the provided screws.
The coax feeds down the pipe, under the deck and through the wall.
We did ground to about 4' before we hit rock. Your standard copper clad rod with a solid core aluminum wire.
He really enjoys the aviation band and picks up KBUF KIAG and KJWH like gangbusters. Oddly enough, he picks up Erie County's system quite well.
His location is just inside the Town of Dunkirk along the lake.

I'm in Evans using a dual band mag mount right behind my light bar
My BCT15X is working hard running my Broadcastify feed through ProScan.

Oh yeah... FULL bars on the CC, but dead quiet

 

[mmckenna]

Oh yeah... FULL bars on the CC, but dead quiet

This sounds more like a programming issue to me.

 

[KC2CQD]

This sounds more like a programming issue to me.

Any ideas?
Like I said, both 996P2s work fine on my mag mount, but not on his discone ( For Chautauqua County ).
I did notice that I had to switch from ID SCAN to ID SEARCH for them to work on my mag mount.
I even adjusted the Thresh through the whole range the scanner listed.
I thought it may have something to do with how ProScan imported ( from RR ) the P25 Phase 2 as a Standard P25 trunked. Vs. Erie County which is a single channel P25 P1 with lots of stuff still on analog...and yes, I made sure all the Chaut. County was in digital.
Now that I think of it, the Chaut. County system entries dont even show a mode pulldown.

I'm stumped

 

[mmckenna]

You'd need someone with local knowledge of those systems to assist.

A full strength control channel should give you what you need, as long as everything else is programmed correctly.
You may have any number of issues other that that, and I'd be guessing:
simulcast distortion, interference, etc...

 

[Ubbe]

Can a vertical whip be added to a Tram 1410 discone by simply removing the nut on the top and screwing, for example, a 2m threaded whip into the ground plane?

No. Any whip added to a discone needs some sort of filter to isolate it from the discones working frequencies, usually 100-1000MHz, or it will create havoc with the discones performance. There's usually a coil at the bottom of the whip that are high impedance above 100MHz and connects the whip at a lower impedance below 50MHz.

/Ubbe

 

[KC2CQD]

All fixed!
Thanks for your help and advise guys!
Turns out there was no way to take the top bolt off the tram without damaging the SO-239 anyway.

We wound up taking down the Tram and experimenting with a Firestick fiberglass CB whip with NOAA load in the mid section of the antenna.
It worked.

My friend's XYL decided he would NOT be ordering an upgraded antenna so we traded my labor and a few bucks, we mounted the Firestick to that and put that in the air and it worked amazing for Chautauqua County, he's still receiving everything else we programmed into his 996P2 and I went home with a Tram for my second scanner.

Not my prettiest work but hey, it solved the problem.
My guess is that the ancient power-lines behind his structure (that I didn't notice when we put the first antenna) may have been causing some EMI that the Tram didn't like. Beats me!

Thanks again.
73s