Uniden Remote Head Project

[Tinkerwave]

I'm still here. The RF noise issue bummed me out and I took a break from it. I need to get back working on it and build some up.

Hi @mancow hows the EMI noise issue going? I have some questions about the noise you mentioned from the touchscreen display:
1) Are there any other components creating problematic EMI noise?
2) You said it's the GPS component that's having a problem with the EMI noise, right?
3) Do you know if the interference is coming from a particular area of the display?
4) What type of interference is it? EMI, magnetic, or other?

Sounds like shielding would help, right? If so, then I may have found some things that can help. I'll post what info I collected in another reply in this thread, since it's kinda long lol

 

[Tinkerwave]

@mancow Some articles on shielding:

1) While Shielding Actually Works, Filtering is Best

While Shielding Actually Works, Filtering is Best - EMI Solutions Inc.

Shielding is a technique used to control EMI by preventing transmission of noise signals from the source to the receiver - EMI Solutions has the answers.

4emi.com

2) Does Aluminum Foil Protect Against EMF Radiation?

Does Aluminum Foil Protect Against EMF Radiation?

I get this question fairly often, so I wanted to look into it. First of all, to answer your question: Yes, Aluminum foil, much like Aluminum mesh, will shield against most wavelength radiofrequency radiation. Now let's dive into this a bit deeper and find out how, and why, aluminum foil blocks...

emfacademy.com

Bottom line: yes it does


3) Good discussion on shielding for EMI and magnetic interference: "Aluminium RF/EMI shielding?"

Aluminium RF/EMI shielding? - Page 1

Aluminium RF/EMI shielding? - Page 1

www.eevblog.com

 

[Tinkerwave]

@mancow If you find that aluminum foil doesn't work (for whatever reason), other materials include:
- aluminum and steel cases (various sizes)
- wire mesh
- wrap around sleeves
- paint

Here's links to these and other types of products that may help:

1) Some metal enclosures:

New fast-assembly UNICASE instrument enclosures

New improved UNICASE aluminium instrument <a href="/products/186/Enclosures-Panels">enclosures</a> from METCASE are now even quicker to assemble – thanks to redesigned chassis profiles and a new assembly tool (available as an accessory).<br /><br />

www.dpaonthenet.net

2) EMI Shielding & Conductive Adhesives

EMI Shielding & Conductive Adhesives Archives | Shielding Solutions Ltd

EMI Shielding Product Category

shielding-solutions.com

3) Instrument plastics Mesh

EMI Mesh | Instrument Plastics

Instrument Plastics Limited can offer display quality blackened micro-fine mesh for shielding applications.

www.instrumentplastics.co.uk

Optolite EMIShield Micromesh | Instrument Plastics

Developed to give excellent shielding performance offering unequalled light transmission and clarity, with greater performance than ITO coated displays.

www.instrumentplastics.co.uk

US distributor:

EMI Shield, RFI Shielding, RF Shields, EMI Shielding Gasket Materials

www.eastcoastshielding.com

OPTICAL Filters For Electronic Displays - ECS180 Series

www.eastcoastshielding.com

4) Interference-Shielding Wrap-Around Sleeving

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

"Use this shielded sleeving to protect wire and cable from signal distortion caused by nearby equipment and devices. A sewn-in ground wire dissipates any stored charge. It provides good protection against abrasion. Wrap it around wire and cable without disconnecting them; sleeving has a slit along the entire length."
Skip to the section "Heat-Reflective Wrap-Around Sleeving"


5) RFI Shield Can Development Kit (2@ 60 x 80mm, and some shield can clips)

RFI Shield Can Kit - S01-806005KIT - Harwin

RFI Shield Can Development Kit

www.harwin.com

It costs $20. Their size 60x80mm is too small for a 5" touchscreen display: 2.36" x 3.14". Together they're 4.7" x 6.2". Would the two together be enough to see if EMI decreases significantly?


6) General search for EMI/RFI blocking materials:

RFI and EMI - Shielding and Absorbing Materials | Electronic Components Distributor DigiKey

RFI and EMI - Shielding and Absorbing Materials are in stock at DigiKey. Order Now! RF/IF and RFID ship same day

www.digikey.com

6a) RFI and EMI - Shielding and Absorbing Materials

RFI and EMI - Shielding and Absorbing Materials | Electronic Components Distributor DigiKey

RFI and EMI - Shielding and Absorbing Materials are in stock at DigiKey. Order Now! RF/IF and RFID ship same day

www.digikey.com

6b) MG Chemicals 842ER-60ML

RFI and EMI - Shielding and Absorbing Materials | Electronic Components Distributor DigiKey

RFI and EMI - Shielding and Absorbing Materials are in stock at DigiKey. Order Now! RF/IF and RFID ship same day

www.digikey.com

https://www.mgchemicals.com/downloads/tds/tds-842er-2parts.pdf

silver epoxy conductive paint:
• Superior EMI shielding
• Ambient and elevated temperature cure
• Excellent chemical and corrosion resistance
• Stable under extreme environmental conditions (100 hours)
• Service Temperature Range -40–150 °C
• Can be applied with a brush, or with manual spray guns (see PDF)

 

[mancow]

Nothing I tried works. I wrapped the thing entirely, tried copper tape with insulation, everything. The way they laid the boards out there are minimal grounds, even the mounting post holes aren't grounds.

 

[Tinkerwave]

Could you post a photo of your breadboard again? Maybe circle where the grounds are.
1) What did you wrap it with?
2) Did you try EMI shielding paint?
3) Did you try the RFI Shield Can Kit?
4) Can you isolate the display from the rest of the circuits, so it's easier to isolate?

If you'd like to try some of the above, I'd be happy to paypal you to cover those costs. You've already incurred significant expense, energy, and time. Perhaps I can help. Also, some others reported success with your design, right? Did they have the same problem? If not, could you tag them to ask how they handled shielding and grounding?

 

[Tinkerwave]

@mancow Can I help? Please see my reply above. You are not alone.

 

[mancow]

@mancow Can I help? Please see my reply above. You are not alone.

Sure thing. Let me get some time hopefully this weekend and I will get you whatever you want or need to keep things rolling and improving. Like I said too much in here already, I was moving along pretty well then the RFI issue frustrated me and sent me off track a bit (although it didn't affect the actual operation). Then family time really consumed the rest of my resources lately.

 

[jpjohn]

I wish I could help you guys as well but like I said my fat fingers prevent that!!! I’ll be mentally supporting this project as it moves forward. Really excited about it!!!!!!

 

[mancow]

@mancow If you find that aluminum foil doesn't work (for whatever reason), other materials include:
- aluminum and steel cases (various sizes)
- wire mesh
- wrap around sleeves
- paint

Here's links to these and other types of products that may help:

1) Some metal enclosures:

New fast-assembly UNICASE instrument enclosures

New improved UNICASE aluminium instrument <a href="/products/186/Enclosures-Panels">enclosures</a> from METCASE are now even quicker to assemble – thanks to redesigned chassis profiles and a new assembly tool (available as an accessory).<br /><br />

www.dpaonthenet.net

2) EMI Shielding & Conductive Adhesives

EMI Shielding & Conductive Adhesives Archives | Shielding Solutions Ltd

EMI Shielding Product Category

shielding-solutions.com

3) Instrument plastics Mesh

EMI Mesh | Instrument Plastics

Instrument Plastics Limited can offer display quality blackened micro-fine mesh for shielding applications.

www.instrumentplastics.co.uk

Optolite EMIShield Micromesh | Instrument Plastics

Developed to give excellent shielding performance offering unequalled light transmission and clarity, with greater performance than ITO coated displays.

www.instrumentplastics.co.uk

US distributor:

EMI Shield, RFI Shielding, RF Shields, EMI Shielding Gasket Materials

www.eastcoastshielding.com

OPTICAL Filters For Electronic Displays - ECS180 Series

www.eastcoastshielding.com

4) Interference-Shielding Wrap-Around Sleeving

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

"Use this shielded sleeving to protect wire and cable from signal distortion caused by nearby equipment and devices. A sewn-in ground wire dissipates any stored charge. It provides good protection against abrasion. Wrap it around wire and cable without disconnecting them; sleeving has a slit along the entire length."
Skip to the section "Heat-Reflective Wrap-Around Sleeving"


5) RFI Shield Can Development Kit (2@ 60 x 80mm, and some shield can clips)

RFI Shield Can Kit - S01-806005KIT - Harwin

RFI Shield Can Development Kit

www.harwin.com

It costs $20. Their size 60x80mm is too small for a 5" touchscreen display: 2.36" x 3.14". Together they're 4.7" x 6.2". Would the two together be enough to see if EMI decreases significantly?


6) General search for EMI/RFI blocking materials:

RFI and EMI - Shielding and Absorbing Materials | Electronic Components Distributor DigiKey

RFI and EMI - Shielding and Absorbing Materials are in stock at DigiKey. Order Now! RF/IF and RFID ship same day

www.digikey.com

6a) RFI and EMI - Shielding and Absorbing Materials

RFI and EMI - Shielding and Absorbing Materials | Electronic Components Distributor DigiKey

RFI and EMI - Shielding and Absorbing Materials are in stock at DigiKey. Order Now! RF/IF and RFID ship same day

www.digikey.com

6b) MG Chemicals 842ER-60ML

RFI and EMI - Shielding and Absorbing Materials | Electronic Components Distributor DigiKey

RFI and EMI - Shielding and Absorbing Materials are in stock at DigiKey. Order Now! RF/IF and RFID ship same day

www.digikey.com

https://www.mgchemicals.com/downloads/tds/tds-842er-2parts.pdf

silver epoxy conductive paint:
• Superior EMI shielding
• Ambient and elevated temperature cure
• Excellent chemical and corrosion resistance
• Stable under extreme environmental conditions (100 hours)
• Service Temperature Range -40–150 °C
• Can be applied with a brush, or with manual spray guns (see PDF)

Pretty neat, especially the can kit. My concern is their lack of ground plane on the board. There really isn't much to tie it to. If I put my finger on the board on the traces that connect the memory chips to the FPGA it increases greatly. I'm assuming all the nasty harmonics from the high speed gates are creating the wide band hash.

From what I can tell so far the 4D Systems displays don't have this issue. However, they are far more expensive and I would have to learn and rewrite everything. I have several of them here to work with but again, need to find time.

 

[Tinkerwave]

@mancow Would it help if you had a ground in the car's cigarette lighter DC power outlet? This product extends one from the car to a post on the cigarette lighter adapter:

https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-32150-Power-Ground-Outlet/dp/B0002SRDBY

$15 Lisle 32150 Power/Ground Outlet
"Plug the tool into the cigarette lighter or power accessory receptacle; You now have a ground and power source on the dash
The plug light will come on to signal the plug is properly connected and both power and ground are available at the posts"

From what I read, ground is nearly always in the cigarette lighter adapter's outer casing (i.e., the outer negative 'body' is vehicle ground), whereas the positive center is battery. I also read that "some old British Vehicles and Volkswagens had positive ground systems. No doubt there were others."

What is the polarity of a car cigarette lighter adapter?

There is a center pin, and two outside tabs. Which are positive and negative?

electronics.stackexchange.com

I think the $15 Lisle device in the Amazon link above would identify and provide available ground. Would something like that help?

Here's a similar type of device:

https://www.amazon.com/ONLINE-LED-STORE-Triggered-Momentary/dp/B015TNOIMI

$10. 12V DC 10A Heavy Duty On/Off + Ground Triggered Momentary Switch Cigarette Lighter Adapter w/ 10ft Cable

"The adapter supplies all of the needed power and ground so there is no need to ground the accessory to the body. And the momentary switch is connected to ground for accessories that need a ground trigger."

And another that might come in handy:

https://www.amazon.com/Isolator-Suppressor-Amplifier-Equalizer-Subwoofer/dp/B07S8VKG99

$15 "Car Power Filter EMI Noise Ground Loop Isolator Suppressor for Auto Stereo Audio Radio Stereos Amplifier Amp Speaker Equalizer Subwoofer 12V"

 

[mancow]

No, I run it from a similar setup. The ground I mention is the pc board ground traces and planes. Often such devices will have ground traces that fill in around and in unused board areas with. 001 filter capacitors from various data lines to them to help shunt noise to ground.

 

[Tinkerwave]

@mancow I see what you're saying - looks like the 4D Systems Displays is the way to go. 4D Systems use any of three programming environments: Arduino, Raspberry Pi, and Workshop4 (proprietary IDE).

(I link to Workshop4 below, for the benefit of others that might benefit from a summary).

So @mancow, which of those three environments do you think would be easiest to migrate your code to? If you'd like to get a copy of Workshop4 Pro, I'd be happy to send you the payment for it. And if you upload the code (you may have already), then I'm sure there would be help available to migrate it - myself included!


Brief information about Workshop4 for 4D Systems Displays:

Software

WORKSHOP4 IDE FREE DOWNLOAD WORKSHOP4 IDE FREE DOWNLOAD WORKSHOP4 PRO Make complex widget design, simple. GO PRO WORKSHOP4 PRO Make

4dsystems.com.au

"Workshop4 is a comprehensive software IDE for Microsoft Windows that provides an integrated software development platform for all of the 4D family of processors and modules. The IDE combines the Editor, Compiler, Linker and Downloader to develop complete 4DGL application code."

For $80, two additional features are unlocked in Workshop4 Pro:
Genie Magic: "...ability to add extra 4DGL where you want it."
Smart Widget Editor: "...a comprehensive tool which allows you to create and animate Gauges, Sliders, Knobs and more..."

 

[ra7850]

Count me in on helping with software development costs, as well as testing. Mancow has helped me getting his code to work on my devices here so I'd be glad to help in development (I'm not a programmer) in testing as required.

Rob

@mancow I see what you're saying - looks like the 4D Systems Displays is the way to go. 4D Systems use any of three programming environments: Arduino, Raspberry Pi, and Workshop4 (proprietary IDE).

(I link to Workshop4 below, for the benefit of others that might benefit from a summary).

So @mancow, which of those three environments do you think would be easiest to migrate your code to? If you'd like to get a copy of Workshop4 Pro, I'd be happy to send you the payment for it. And if you upload the code (you may have already), then I'm sure there would be help available to migrate it - myself included!


Brief information about Workshop4 for 4D Systems Displays:

Software

WORKSHOP4 IDE FREE DOWNLOAD WORKSHOP4 IDE FREE DOWNLOAD WORKSHOP4 PRO Make complex widget design, simple. GO PRO WORKSHOP4 PRO Make

4dsystems.com.au

"Workshop4 is a comprehensive software IDE for Microsoft Windows that provides an integrated software development platform for all of the 4D family of processors and modules. The IDE combines the Editor, Compiler, Linker and Downloader to develop complete 4DGL application code."

For $80, two additional features are unlocked in Workshop4 Pro:
Genie Magic: "...ability to add extra 4DGL where you want it."
Smart Widget Editor: "...a comprehensive tool which allows you to create and animate Gauges, Sliders, Knobs and more..."

 

[jpjohn]

Count me in as well. I’ve wanted this since the radio came out and am glad someone is willing to work on a solution!!!

 

[Tinkerwave]

@mancow You already have everything working, and just need to fix the EMI/RFI. So I'm wondering...
You have your GPS module next to your display, right? Have you considered using a breakout board to move the GPS - or just its antenna? - to an external container from the display box, in order to isolate the GPS from the display's RFI/EMI? On Feb 05, 2020 you "extended the antenna to the window so [you] could test". Here's one product that could help move it outside the display board:

Amazon.com: Adafruit USB Micro-B Breakout Board [ADA1833]: Computers & Accessories

Amazon.com: Adafruit USB Micro-B Breakout Board [ADA1833]: Computers & Accessories

www.amazon.com

Here's one guy's external GPS project:

sub-$50 DIY 10hz Bluetooth GPS Receiver - Did It Myself

DIY 10hz bluetooth GPS receiver for use with Harry's Lap Timer, RaceChrono, iPhone, and Android that costs less than $50 in parts

did-it-myself.com

 

[wmlovell]

I'm interested in helping with this project as well. Only thing is, I have no clue what you guys are talking about! ...and Google Translate doesn't have a "English" to "Electrical Genius" option. ...but if there is a way I could be useful, I'm in! Until then, I am with you in spirit!

 

[mancow]

@mancow You already have everything working, and just need to fix the EMI/RFI. So I'm wondering...
You have your GPS module next to your display, right? Have you considered using a breakout board to move the GPS - or just its antenna? - to an external container from the display box, in order to isolate the GPS from the display's RFI/EMI? On Feb 05, 2020 you "extended the antenna to the window so [you] could test". Here's one product that could help move it outside the display board:

Amazon.com: Adafruit USB Micro-B Breakout Board [ADA1833]: Computers & Accessories

Amazon.com: Adafruit USB Micro-B Breakout Board [ADA1833]: Computers & Accessories

www.amazon.com

Here's one guy's external GPS project:

sub-$50 DIY 10hz Bluetooth GPS Receiver - Did It Myself

DIY 10hz bluetooth GPS receiver for use with Harry's Lap Timer, RaceChrono, iPhone, and Android that costs less than $50 in parts

did-it-myself.com

Oh yes it works fine about 18" away. That's not a problem. I could mount it on a data pigtail but I didn't want to. I want it nicely inside the unit so it's all one piece. I hate having just one more thing dangling around to deal with while mobile.

 

[mancow]

@mancow I see what you're saying - looks like the 4D Systems Displays is the way to go. 4D Systems use any of three programming environments: Arduino, Raspberry Pi, and Workshop4 (proprietary IDE).

(I link to Workshop4 below, for the benefit of others that might benefit from a summary).

So @mancow, which of those three environments do you think would be easiest to migrate your code to? If you'd like to get a copy of Workshop4 Pro, I'd be happy to send you the payment for it. And if you upload the code (you may have already), then I'm sure there would be help available to migrate it - myself included!


Brief information about Workshop4 for 4D Systems Displays:

Software

WORKSHOP4 IDE FREE DOWNLOAD WORKSHOP4 IDE FREE DOWNLOAD WORKSHOP4 PRO Make complex widget design, simple. GO PRO WORKSHOP4 PRO Make

4dsystems.com.au

"Workshop4 is a comprehensive software IDE for Microsoft Windows that provides an integrated software development platform for all of the 4D family of processors and modules. The IDE combines the Editor, Compiler, Linker and Downloader to develop complete 4DGL application code."




For $80, two additional features are unlocked in Workshop4 Pro:
Genie Magic: "...ability to add extra 4DGL where you want it."
Smart Widget Editor: "...a comprehensive tool which allows you to create and animate Gauges, Sliders, Knobs and more..."

Thank you for the generous offer but I already have the software. I don't int recall if it's the pro or not but what I have is good enough for now. The hurdle is just getting familiar with it. I prefer the 4D stuff because they are better, less RFI and not Chinese. The only reason I stayed away was the cost. They are very expensive. Add in a $30 Teensy, associated other connectors, $10 GPS and some sort of housing and they price gets up there.

 

[mancow]

I have to clean up some projects here, X9000 6 meter repeater control head delete adapter board and wire to the CAT300DX controller, tune the 6 meter duplexers when they arrive (to replace the existing ones if they are better), clean up and do something with my cousin's kid's ancient GE portable lunchbox radio he got at a flea market. I don't know if channel elements for those are around or what. Maybe if it makes static he will be happy. I need to fix my SG230 tuner too but the parts never seem to be shipped from ebay. Then I can really turn to focusing on this again. I will start putting eyes on the 4D systems stuff though in the mean time when I can.

 

[Tinkerwave]

Oh yes it works fine about 18" away. That's not a problem. I could mount it on a data pigtail but I didn't want to. I want it nicely inside the unit so it's all one piece. I hate having just one more thing dangling around to deal with while mobile.

Gotcha. And I really appreciate your feedback - especially with life being particularly challenging now, and some family issues that require significant time, etc.

In order for others like myself to give it a go (either try with the 18" separation, or to translate Nextion to 4D), I'd like to bother you with some (more) questions, and research that may be helpful:
1) For those looking to try and migrate your Nextion IDE code (the .ino file, all 1103 lines) to 4D Systems IDE code, do you have any quick suggestions, warnings, observations? Like: Is Nextion mostly compatible with Arduino? anything to avoid? If the topic is too much of a rats nest to offer any "quick suggestions etc", then that's good to know too lol
2) Which of the 4D Systems Displays would you suggest? Stay with 4.3", or doesn't matter with 4D Systems displays?
3) Can you post where you located an image of SDS100, or post a copy of it, so we can use it to develop and test?
4) I found a forum with people working to convert Nextion to 4D Systems. Perhaps it could offer some guidance?

trying to emulate Nextion gauge background function. (Possible?) - 4D Systems Forum

I currently have a simple Nextion display but needed something sunlight readable so have a 4d SB on the way. I was going to move my project over but I have

forum.4dsystems.com.au

5) I found these threads on converting from Nextion to 4D Systems interesting:

Nextion vs 4d system HMI display? Full compatible with Photon?

Which HMI display is full compatible, stable and easy to work for particle photon/electron?

community.particle.io

Alternative to Nextion

Alternative to Nextion

forum.arduino.cc