Upcoming changes to FSS 843.16 (Scanner Law)

[keithmj]

Hi All..Sad is it not..Unless they are on standby what would they need it for? If they are on standby then they would have no problems as they are still legally on duty. This is just part of the stupidy of people who come up with these crazy laws, they don't have any idea as to what they are doing or thinking about. Wouldn't it be easier to just enforce the laws that they already have on the books and just come up with a license for those into the "hobby" of scanning? Now that they have scrambled digital that scanners can't listen to anyway why are they making laws that don't apply or won't apply? I don't want to be a pain in the arse but this ticks me off that they are so ignorant, but then again Florida is 15 to 20 years behind every other state and can't even get voting done right so I guess we should expect this of the laws too...Cheers..Keithmj

 

[n4yek]

Don't be a UPS, Fed-EX driver and get pulled over. You know somewhere on the van is a scanner going to someone who ordered one. :lol:

 

[urtenfifteen]

I can understand the concern, but has anyone been able to provide a recent (post-trunking) example of a scanner being effectively used by a criminal to evade capture or an instance of a criminal listening to a scanner that resulted in any casualties to officers?

Having heard many stories of some scanner listeners being an annoyance or potential problem to police and other investigators, I haven't heard any situations of serious consequence put forth by those who would like to prevent monitoring. Examples of scanners being used successfully by unauthorized persons to compromise an investigation or put officer safety at risk would be helpful in convincing myself and others that laws such as these are necessary.

I find it hard to belive that a criminal could not only figure out how to program the scanner, listen for the hundreds of hours it takes to fully comprehend the radio traffic, and simultaniously monitor all of the overlapping talkgroups and frequencies (city, county, detectives, patrol, etc.) that would be covering a certain area.

The language of this statute is difficult because the legislative intent behind it is flawed conceptually. The idea of local cops conducting covert and military style operations and wanting to play like the big boys (Feds) instead of *boring 'ol community policing* is bringing some interesting challenges to the legislature.

It's a disturbing trend when agencies begin down the slippery slope of demanding less oversight, less public involvement, and more and more secrecy... all under the cloak of false officer safety concerns.

 

[keithmj]

Hi All..This could probably be put in a topic by itself but since I brought up stupid laws and disagree with them, all you Firefighter in the USA need to see this short about 35 second video about the firefighters in Oregon http://www.keithmj.com/FFs.wmv this tells about the stupidy of our Governments. If I was a Firefighter I'd be ticked off. Check it out and come up with your own opinions..Cheers..Keithmj

 

[climberkid]

yeah i just watched that video. im not a FF but that is a little frustrating. although it is way off topic and really doesnt have to do with FF or emergency services, it seems to be a growing trend in this country (didnt think it would happen so far away from the border though)

 

[urtenfifteen]

Orlando Going Encrypted

Orlando Florida is now going encrypted using the same unsubstantiated claims of officer safety.

Apparently it had nothing to do with the Citizen WatchDog group "CopWatch" monitoring police activities on public streets and catching officers not following established procedure or the bad press from the result of some retaliatory prosecution put forth by the local MBI against a media outlet for their investigative reporting on detectives who were caught getting too comfortable with strippers they were supposed to be investigating.

Apparently the streets are public domain for government cameras, but observing police in a non-invasive manner is not allowed even on these very same public streets.

This is starting to become disturbing.

But I am left to question why the scanner law is necessary when the technology is available for encryption? Are they concerned that encryption on patrol channels and other non-covert communications may be restricted eventually due to a court opinion on the public's right to monitor, especially with regard to media representatives?

 

[wutang_0110]

Not to listen to a agency that your affiliated with, but its clear for you to listen to someone else a formal agreement is to be in place.

what if you are on your private property? no license needed

and if you are on call arent you getting paid? if not then why do it? except maybe you are a volunteer fire fighter
-Kb9wsx

 

[N4DES]

what if you are on your private property? no license needed

Sort of....in Florida if you have a business location (brick & morter establishment) that is considered an extension of private property, but the statute is clear about operation within a place of business.

and if you are on call arent you getting paid? if not then why do it? except maybe you are a volunteer fire fighter
-Kb9wsx

No not always. I'm subject to call-out 24/7/365 and because I'm on salary don't get on-call pay.
The same holds true for those in our Emergency Mgt. Division.

If you read my post on the 1st page (post #8) it will clarify the efforts of why I needed to get it fixed for our non-ham employees.

 

[jaymatt1978]

I'm just curious has anyone tried to challenge this law? I would think it'd be moot anyway since the state is mostly for all intents and purposes unmonitorable.

 

[WX4JCW]

Orlando Florida is now going encrypted using the same unsubstantiated claims of officer safety.

Apparently it had nothing to do with the Citizen WatchDog group "CopWatch" monitoring police activities on public streets and catching officers not following established procedure or the bad press from the result of some retaliatory prosecution put forth by the local MBI against a media outlet for their investigative reporting on detectives who were caught getting too comfortable with strippers they were supposed to be investigating.

Apparently the streets are public domain for government cameras, but observing police in a non-invasive manner is not allowed even on these very same public streets.

This is starting to become disturbing.

But I am left to question why the scanner law is necessary when the technology is available for encryption? Are they concerned that encryption on patrol channels and other non-covert communications may be restricted eventually due to a court opinion on the public's right to monitor, especially with regard to media representatives?

I totally agree, Lets not forget the Pushing down the stairs incident and the whole Sheriff Beary fiasco, Copwatch in Central florida is being led by a convicted felon who tried to have his wife killed, but you can bet he is in orlando constantly and hammering law enforcement, normal law abiding listeners are being punished for this. Or does Copwatch have a point as to whats going on in Orlando, I just don't know.

The Scanner Law has been on the books for a long long time, i have had a scanner and system radio in the car (when i worked for EMS and FD) and even before that, but i always followed some simple rules.

#1. Don't EVER go to a scene unless you are in public safety and you have a valid official reason to be there

#2. Don't make you radio's obvious, i mean it takes a real rocket scientist to get pulled over for say speeding and have a crapload of radios broadcasting the same radio traffic as the officer has on his radio, hmmmm wouldnt you get suspicious?

As long as you don't have any criminal intent, behave yourself, and act like you have a brain, well then law enforcement wont bug you

 

[keithmj]

Why don't they just require a license like they do for the GMRS radios? I have a license for the two I own. And the scanners can't transmit anything. Now that would be the smart thing to do. I am not planning on getting a HAM outfit so I should not need a license for a HAM outfit. I guess someone just wants to get FAT off of the HAM licenses..Why not just have them rewrite the STUPID laws..Cheers..Keithmj

 

[N4DES]

The FCC did issue a ruling, preempting "scanner laws" (in vehicles) in regards to Amateur equipment, but there ARE very specific details.

1. The preemptiion applies only to licensed Amateurs.
2. It applies to TRANSCEIVERS that "incidentally" are capable of receiving outside Amateur frequencies. (As most mobile and and-held radios are.)
3. It does NOT cover seperate receivers, including scanners, in a vehicle.
4. It did NOT address the issue of actually USING such a radio to actually listen to Public Service transmissions, or any transmission other than Amateur frequencies. (In other words, it's not illegal to posess a transceiver that CAN tune Police channels, but they didn't say it was OK to actually listen to those frequencies.)

http://www.arrl.org/announce/regulatory/pr91-36/pr91-36.html

In addition, the FCC does not license "receivers" and is in different category than GMRS radios.

 

[gcr33]

What does your sitting in your car at a shopping center while waiting for someone to comeout have anything to do with incidents of impropriety by law enforcement?

This argument holds no water. If you see something happening call the police, if you see something done by the police you don't like call the Chief. Your listening to your scanner is not going to stop anything criminal or improper.

 

[urtenfifteen]

#1. Don't EVER go to a scene unless you are in public safety and you have a valid official reason to be there

Agreed about CopWatch. The group is far from an ideal example of a watchdog group that a scanner advocate should be referencing. This group has done more harm than good for the good citizens and scanner listeners of the area, it would seem.

 

[N4DES]

-----Original Message-----
From: noreply@lobbytools.com [mailto:noreply@lobbytools.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 3:44 PM
Subject: Bills Signed Into Law Wednesday, May 28, 2008 -

Governor Charlie Crist signed fifty-eight bills today into law that passed during the 2008 Session. S 2860 (Property Insurance) was signed into law with an Appropriation Veto of section 16. Log in to your Lobbytools account to access the transmittal letters for the approved legislation, and to access the complete list of all bills enrolled, presented or approved by the Governor.

Bills Signed Into Law with Appropriation Veto 05/28/08
-------------------------------------------------------
S 2860 - Insurance by Sen. Atwater


Bills Signed Into Law 05/28/08
-------------------------------------------------------
H 0061 - Offenses Against Officers by Rep. Scionti
H 0069 - License Plates by Rep. Patterson
H 0105 - Secondary Metals Recyclers by Rep. Troutman
H 0151 - Radio Equipment Using Law Enforcement Frequencies by Rep. Reed
S 0154 - Pedestrian Safety/Driver Requirements by Sen. Fasano
H 0167 - Temporary Motor Vehicle License Tags by Rep. Cretul
H 0219 - Gertrude Maxwell Save a Pet Act by Rep. Domino
S 0230 - State Symbols/Fla. Cracker Horse/Loggerhead Turtle by Sen. Baker
H 0251 - Reserve Officers' Training Corps Programs by Rep. Jordan
H 0321 - Murder of Law Enforcement Officers by Rep. Snyder
H 0343 - Financial Services by Rep. Carroll
H 0435 - Trust Administration by Rep. Hukill
S 0464 - Transfer Fee Covenants/Real Property by Sen. Aronberg
H 0531 - Florida Retirement System by Rep. Weatherford
H 0603 - Textbook Affordability by Rep. Flores
H 0643 - Foreclosure Fraud by Rep. Ford
S 0648 - Insurable Interests/Insurance Contracts by Sen. Posey
S 0732 - Bethune-Cookman University License Plates by Sen. Hill
S 0734 - License Plates by Sen. Fasano
H 0743 - Mortgage Fraud by Rep. Lopez-Cantera
S 0756 - Wrongful Incarceration Compensation by Sen. Joyner
S 0758 - Inland Navigation Districts by Sen. Bennett
S 0766 - Pub. Rec./Judicial and Administrative Officials by Sen. Rich
H 0797 - Public Accountancy by Rep. Holder
H 0843 - Family Readiness Program by Rep. Patronis
H 0853 - Cemetery Lands by Rep. Troutman
H 0861 - Direct-Support Organizations by Rep. Reagan
H 0863 - Pub. Rec./Direct-Support Organization/DVA by Rep. Reagan
S 0874 - Title Loans/Regulation/Consumers by Sen. Fasano
H 0989 - Physician Assistants by Rep. Bogdanoff
H 1027 - Funding for State Veterans' Homes by Rep. Kreegel
S 1070 - Intergovernmental Cooperation by Sen. King
S 1092 - Alzheimer's Disease/Medicaid Waiver Program by Health Policy
H 1363 - Controlled Substances by Rep. Brandenburg
H 1373 - Qualified Defense Contractor Tax Refund Program by Rep. Altman
S 1378 - Display of Flags/Homeowners' Associations by Sen. Fasano
S 1474 - Dissolution of Marriage by Sen. Joyner
S 1488 - Health Care Consumer's Right to Information Act by Sen. Dean
S 1502 - Leased Property for Public Purposes by Sen. Margolis
S 1552 - Everglades Restoration Bonds by Sen. Saunders (B)
S 1616 - Weapon & Firearm Licenses/Interagency Data Sharing by Criminal Justice
S 1694 - 911 Emergency Dispatchers by Sen. Aronberg
S 1716 - Postsecondary Education by Sen. Oelrich
S 1988 - Drivers' Licenses/Suspended, Revoked, or Canceled by Sen. Dockery
S 2000 - Sentencing/Justice & Correctional Policies by Sen. Dockery
S 2016 - Public Lodging and Food Service Establishments by Sen. Aronberg
S 2052 - Water and Wastewater Utilities by Sen. Baker
S 2224 - OGSR/Paratransit Services by Community Affairs
S 2366 - Medical Faculty Certificates by Sen. Diaz de la Portilla
S 2422 - Local Government Finance by Sen. Alexander
S 2516 - East Central Florida Memory Disorder Clinic by Sen. Haridopolos
S 2532 - Child Custody and Support by Sen. Lynn
S 2582 - Motor Vehicle Dealers by Sen. Haridopolos
S 2598 - Impaired Medical Practitioners/Treatment Programs by Sen. Atwater
S 2760 - Dentistry by Sen. Peaden
S 2820 - Juvenile Offenders/Residential Facilities by Sen. Crist
H 7007 - Safe Haven Protection for Surrendered Newborn Infants by Rep. Garcia (R)

 

[Lakotawolf]

I`ve been pulled over by SO, PD, and FWC and they have never said anything about my scanners. I guess being in the line of work i`m in they didnt care. But i know one thing i dont have a HAM license. Actually a couple of times they didnt even know my line of work. So bottom line is they arent going to say crap unless you are doing something wrong with the scanner " as in commiting a crime with it or Chasing calls" I have have many friends that are FHP , PD, and SO and they have flat out told me its not worth their time or paper work to hassle somebody about having a scanner in their car. Unless the person gives them a reason to be messed with.

 

[UFEMTFF]

I`ve been pulled over by SO, PD, and FWC and they have never said anything about my scanners. I guess being in the line of work i`m in they didnt care. But i know one thing i dont have a HAM license. Actually a couple of times they didnt even know my line of work. So bottom line is they arent going to say crap unless you are doing something wrong with the scanner " as in commiting a crime with it or Chasing calls" I have have many friends that are FHP , PD, and SO and they have flat out told me its not worth their time or paper work to hassle somebody about having a scanner in their car. Unless the person gives them a reason to be messed with.

There it is!

I was looking for your post in this thread:
http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showpost.php?p=791677&postcount=6

 

[Lakotawolf]

My bad UFEMTFF. I didnt see that post.

 

[Bolt21]

There it is!

I'd insert a big 'ole smiley icon here, but I don't know how...

 

[KI4LIV]

Since it relates to the law in this thread, I'd like to get some feedback over in a new thread that I just posted - http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107281 !

Thanks so much!